Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2014

[musˈtäfä ceˈmäl ätäˈtyɾc] ---> [musˈtafa keˈmal ataˈtyɾc]

Nevermind past request, i get it, K is written as C, but it might as well be written as K

ɑ is the right letter for a in Mustafa Kemal, there is no ä in turkish ipa http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Turkish,_Azerbaijani_and_Turkmen and K is better than C, turkish learners may be confused, because C is pronounced DJ

Scottish Rite Freemasonry

Atatürk was initiated in the Scottish Rite regular Masonic Lodge Macedonia Risorta et Veritas No. 80 of Salonicco (Robert A. Minder: Freimaurer Politiker Lexikon, Edition zum rauhen Stein, ISBN 3-7065-1909-7, p. 229–231...Atatürk, Kemal. In: Eugen Lennhoff, Oskar Posner: Internationales Freimaurerlexikon. 2006, ISBN 3-7766-2161-3, p. 92.) The historician Andrew Mango considers his affiliation to the Freemasonry to be highly verisimilar (Andrew Mango: Atatürk, John Murray, 1999, ISBN 0-7195-5612-0, p. 93.).

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2024

For Short Description: Atatürk is the greatest leader/ founder/founding father of modern Türkiye. (In original, it says that He is just a former president- that’s not the exact truth, he is not just a former president- HE IS THE FATHER OF THE TURKS) I kindly request from the editors to correct the short description. Thank you! 71.250.203.175 (talk) 20:34, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: This would violate WP:TONE, and WP:NPOV; the short description is for a short, factual introduction to the article. Calling him the 'Father of the Turks' there would be very far from neutral. Uness232 (talk) 21:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

The short description : instead of "First President of Turkey" should be "The Founder and First President of Turkiye" Its factual enough I believe. 37.34.138.41 (talk) 05:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2024

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is founder of Turkish republic. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Türkiye Cumhuriyeti'nin kurucusudur. 176.88.139.198 (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The current article clearly states that he is "the founding father of the Republic of Turkey". Liu1126 (talk) 10:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

The short description has to be modified; instead of "First President of Turkey" should be "The Founder and First President of Turkiye"

"Turkey" is no longer in use; Turkish Republic has officially established the name country "Turkiye" as it has been in forever called in Turkish. 37.34.138.41 (talk) 05:54, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request

For Google SUMMARY Section: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is founder of Turkish Republic. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Türkiye Cumhuriyeti'nin kurucusudur. Hakan BB Unal (talk) 09:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

1. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was the founder of Republic of Turkey and the first president of Republic of Turkey. Please make attention! Profdrhalukmergen (talk) 09:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

2. Consider rephrasing also: "In 1920, before the Turkish Parliament, Atatürk called the (Ottoman) genocides a "shameful act" and didn't publicly deny them at that time.[80]" - to: "In 1920, before the Turkish Parliament, Atatürk didn't publicly deny the Ottoman genocides, which he further condemned, "a shameful act.[80]"

During this time, the Ottoman Empire perpetrated genocides against its Greek, Armenian and Assyrian subjects;

There is a dispute regarding Armenian genocide which is not concluded since Armenia did not agree to open all existing documents to a group of international historians. But Greek & Assyrian! Even a dispute does not exist. Selim Bağatur (talk) 10:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

You should add

Founder of the Republic of Turkey 88.232.168.170 (talk) 16:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

"Greek forces"

the article says "he defeated the forces sent by the Allies".

Wouldn't it be better to rewrite this as "he defeated the Greek Army invasion force supported by the Allies". I don't think there is any disagreement on the fact that Ataturk defeated "Greek Army" sent by Allies to invade western Turkey? ACosarTR (talk) 17:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism Fix Requested

I do not know how to untangle the three most recent changes. Two posts by a newer account with similar edits on related articles pretty clearly constitute vandalism. One deleted sourced content [1] and the second replaced sourced content racist material [2]. An editor rightly reverted part of the second change [3] but not all of it. Is there an easy way to restore the old content other than manually updating the page? I avoid reverting content whenever possible, so I'm not good at it.

Also, do we need to strengthen the page protection again? Cheers, Last1in (talk) 11:33, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Gabor and Ataturk

This has been a bone of contention on Wikipedia for fifteen years, as you can see in this archived discussion from 2009 and the revert that led to said discussion. It has never been resolved.

Gabor wrote about an affair with Ataturk in her 1960 autobiography Zsa Zsa Gabor: My Story. This liaison been in the public discourse ever since. Some additional references:

• "Zsa Zsa Gabor's tell-all autobiography" (Interview). Larry King Live. CNN. November 26, 1991. Event occurs at 4:37.
• Bennetts, Leslie (September 6, 2007). "It's a Mad, Mad, Zsa Zsa World". Vanity Fair.
• Muammar, Kaylan (2005). The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey. Prometheus Books. p. 68. ISBN 9781615928972.
• Moore, Suzanne (December 19, 2016). "Zsa Zsa Gabor knew femininity was a performance. She played it perfectly". The Guardian.
• Wall, Marty; Wall, Isabella; Woodcox, Robert Bruce (2005). Chasing Rubi. Editoria Corripio. p. 3. ISBN 9780976476528.

A couple of editors are intent on removing any information about Ataturk's romance with Gabor. It's sourced content, and quite relevant to the personal life of such an important figure. Removing this information violates WP:NOTCENSORED. I have restored it for the time being, but it's bound to get deleted again unless more editors enforce having the content retained. PromQueenCarrie (talk) 20:34, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Came here from noticeboard The (now removed) text lacks context at least. This liaison (has) been in the public discourse ever since should read "This alleged liaison (has)been in the public discourse ever since". Seemingly nothing and nobody confirms the 'deflowering' except Gabor herself. A few sources accept the story, but they were never in a position to verify or disprove anyway. This thin evidence would be problematic with any 'stale' claim, but with somone whose public image in part rested on the sheer number and breadth of wealthy and powerful men who had seduced her/ had tried to seduced her/ wished they could have seduced her, it's especially 'iffy'. The previous text didn't 'take a position' as to whether the Gabor claim was true, but neither did it give any context to establish how likely/supported/widely accepted the claim was. Not very seems to be the answer to all three. Probably shouldn't be on this page but only on 'her' page IMO.Pincrete (talk) 05:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. This issue is only brought by Islamists to denigrate Atatürk. There is zero proof. Beshogur (talk) 10:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

This (like all arguments in the encyclopaedia) should come down to sourcing. We have a single, primary source which is an autobio and thus inherently suspicious. Prom provided four secondary cites above (Larry King is a throwaway; an interview with an autobiographer completely fails the WP:SECONDARY criteria). The strongest is probably the article from The Guardian. That would usually be seen as enough to support a brief mention, at most, but deleting the info without a counter-source seems to be an WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument. I agree with Pincrete that context was missing, but no source is offered to establish how [un]likely/[un]supported/widely [un]accepted the claim is amongst scholars. Without that, entirely removing the (weakly) sourced statement is WP:OR. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 13:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)