Talk:Ministry of justice

FYI regards to my email address to David and I will be in touch with you on Monday morning

Thanks the Weather Channel and Google guidelines for the Weather Wizard Keeping it Real stats Redbird's Custom ROM for ATT Zealand UAE Singaporean for the Weather Channel (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Moved to talk. Concept error and an open discussion.

@Montgomery28:, you wrote in this edit summary (Catalonia" as a state under "Spain"; list link completed)

Catalonia is not a state, it is a region in Spain, specifically an Autonomous Community.

If you add Catalonia, you have to add each and every one of the other Autonomous Communities of Spain, there are no distinctions, Catalonia does not have a different status from the rest. See Political divisions of Spain and Autonomous communities of Spain.

In any case, it is still necessary to determine if the term is the most appropriate or it must be adjusted to regional minister or counselor. There is an open discussion here [1] so I moved it to talk while it resolves. --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 01:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for opening this discussion, BallenaBlanca. I would be definitely willing to research and add all of the Autonomous Communities of Spain if such ministry data is available. Montgomery28 (talk) 02:19, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

@Montgomery28: The governments of other Spanish regions (Autonomous Communities) don't have as much exposure as the Catalan government in English Wikipedia. You are welcome to create articles for those regions. I suggest you start by looking other language wikis e.g. eu:Eusko Jaurlaritza for the Basque government, gl:Xunta de Galicia for the Galician government, ca:Generalitat Valenciana for the Valencian government and es:Junta de Andalucía for Andalusia.--Obi2canibe (talk) 13:49, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your guidance, Obi2canibe. I applied your research suggestions, and created the Wikipedia page Public Prosecutor (Autonomous Communities of Spain). Following BallenaBlanca's suggestion, I have added each Autonomous Community of Spain to Justice ministry (with the exception of the autonomous cities Ceuta and Melilla, which have offices in Andalusia's Cadiz and Malaga provinces respectively). Montgomery28 (talk) 16:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Montgomery28: Thank you very much for your effort. You are doing a good job!

However, notice that you have followed an inaccurate pattern for the autonomous communities of Spain. They should follow the same scheme as Australia, Canada ... that is, in a column as subdivisions from Spain. --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 00:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi BallenaBlanca. I reformatted the table just as you suggested. The Autonomous Communities of Spain have been placed underneath Spain in similarity to Australia and Canada. Thanks for your guidance. Montgomery28 (talk) 01:44, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much again for your work!

But I just realized there are several errors. Why do you put in the regions of Spain "Office of the Public Prosecutor - Senior Prosecutor" except in one? All Autonomous Communities have the same status, all have "Consejerías - Consejeros". --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 01:50, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

@Montgomery28: Did you see my comment above? --BallenaBlanca 🐳 ♂ (Talk) 00:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi BallenaBlanca: I went with what was described in the list of ministers page for Catalonia (which mentioned the Department of Justice). However, I do understand what you're saying—as Catalonia is indeed listed on the Public Prosecutor's website. I will make the adjustment to the table accordingly. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Montgomery28 (talk) 14:35, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

@Montgomery28: I'm afraid you're confusing public prosecutor with justice ministers. They are not the same. Although I'm not familiar with the subject it looks that there is only one office of public prosecutor in Spain, the Office of the Attorney General of Spain (Ministerio Fiscal) headed by the Attorney General (see this). This Spanish public prosecutor has offices in the autonomous communities, similar to how there are United States Attorney across the USA.

The justice ministers in the autonomous communities are responsible for administration of justice, prisons, civil law and regulation of lawyers. I don't think they have any responsibility for prosecution.--Obi2canibe (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Obi2canibe: Thanks for educating me on how Spain's justice ministry system works. I've removed any references to the Autonomous Communities of Spain in the table. The Public Prosecutor's page is now linked to any law-related pages for Spain that might be pertinent. Montgomery28 (talk) 00:00, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

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Fkmoo 197.215.23.42 (talk) 17:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Political Economic and Social Contexts

Land and people of Sierra Leone 197.215.23.42 (talk) 17:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Ministry of Justice which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 17 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to lowercase Ministry of justice (along with the other three). While there are (disputed) arguments that this is a proper name, and that this is actually a dab page in disguise (not disputed), a majority of posters agree that the article is about the general concept. Plus, there's the precedent at Talk:Ministry_of_Defence#Requested_move_5_February_2021. No such user (talk) 11:22, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

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Ministry of Justice → Ministry of justice – Article is about the generic institution Primergrey (talk) 00:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support - as nominator. Primergrey (talk) 00:33, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

  Strikethrough above since it's not necessary, and potentially confusing, to express support for your own proposal. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 14:44, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support The article title is a generic name, describing all government ministries responsible for judicial affairs or justice, regardless of whether they use that title or not (see content). The ministries in the individual countries have a proper names. WP guidance consensus is clear at WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS (specifically MOS:INSTITUTIONS) Davidships (talk) 03:34, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose This is a proper name. The page serves as a disambiguation page of various institutions which use that proper name. It is not about "ministries of justice". If it was plural, or listed as plural, I could go for it. But in singular form, it reflects a proper name.

Also, @Primergrey, I think it is rather bad form to split each ministry into separate RMs and force commentators to discover what other pages are being proposed to move, and repeat the same arguments elsewhere, forcing discussion to be fragmented and scattered across multiple pages. It is even poorer form not to even link to the other RMs here. The RMs should have been consolidated into one multiple-move request. If possible, I'd like to request that all the individual RMs be closed and for @Primergrey reformulate his RM request as a multi-page move. Walrasiad (talk) 06:12, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Proper name. – robertsky (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• Procedural suggestion: There are four open RMs about ministries of Religious Affairs, Justice, Finance and Foreign Affairs. Since it was the first one that was requested, I suggest we focus the discussion at Talk:Ministry of Religious Affairs#Requested move 16 February 2023 and keep the others open until that discussion is closed, so we can avoid needing to make the same comments in four different places. (If someone wants to convert all these into a single multi-article RM, I would have no objection to that as an alternative approach.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:43, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Oppose I believe most generic cabinet positions have their own page (i.e. Interior Minister, Defence Minister), so I don’t see why this particular one needs to be moved. notadev (talk) 14:18, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure you understand the issue here. The links you provided are redirects. The actual titles of the two articles that you referenced are Interior minister and Defence minister (with lowercase "m"). Again I suggest to focus the discussion at Talk:Ministry of Religious Affairs#Requested move 16 February 2023 rather than discussing the issues here. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: This is a set index article, not an article about the concept of ministries of justice. Like a disambiguation page, the page title should match the most common usage on the page. As Walrasiad and BarrelProof pointed out above, this question should be combined with the similar pages so we needn't comment on each one. SchreiberBike | ⌨  15:24, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support. However, I see no point to the two separate articles: this one and Justice minister. They should be merged, as should other similar pairs of articles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:06, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support. This article is about ministries of justice in the abstract, not a specific Ministry of Justice of [Placename].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:31, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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To my dismay, after the move I discovered that we had parallel articles at Justice minister (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), Finance minister (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Foreign minister (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), with a lot of content and list duplication. I think I will boldly perform merge and/or pageswap to Ministry of justice, Ministry of finance and Ministry of foreign affairs respectively. I moved the above RM discussion over here, for easier tracking. No such user (talk) 11:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)