Talk:Makar Sankranti/Archive 1

Archive 1

Misc

Note: There are 12 Sankrantis in a year. deeptrivia (talk) 05:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be explained with in both articles along with a list of all 12? Darkfearytales 14:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually Makara Sankranti (It is a sanskrit word) is the harvest festival of India. Actually Sanskranti means transmigration of Sun from one Rasi to the other. So, there will be 12 such ones. But The transision of Sun from Dhanu Rasi to Makara Rasi marks the startinf of Uttarayana which means northern movement of Sun. Since Uttarayana is Considered as auspicious time, Makara Sankranthi is celebrated as the begining of that period.

Since India is a mixture of many cultures, at each place it is celebrated in different manner.

• At North India - Makar Sankranti
• At South India,
  • In Kerala and Tamilnadu - Sankranthi
  • In Andhra Pradesh - Sankranthi

Sankranthi is the first most important festival of Telugu people, like Deepavali is for Tamil people. (User:Bsskchaitanya, 13 November 2006)

It's not true that the name is Makar Sankranti in North India and Sankranthi in South India. All North Indians I know also call it Sankranti or its linguistic variants. It is a colloquial shortening of Makar Sankranti. There should be only one article, with the name Makar Sankranti. There are anyway 12 sankrantis, from Mesh Sankranti to Mina Sankranti. deeptrivia (talk) 07:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

merge all articles into Sankranti

i think all the articles can be merged into the aaaamain article Sankranti and wherever more details are required, daughter pages can be created.Kalyan 11:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

aaof Sankranthi

Feel that this article needs more information on the indian astronimical basis for celebration : Sankranthi (makar S) marks the change of direction of the sun northwards. So ideally it should coincide with the gregorian calendar solstice. As Bsskchaitanya mentions, this festival marks the transition into capricorn (makara) rasi. But in the gregorian, capricorn start on dec 22 and goes on to jan 20. However, sankranthi falls remarkably consistently on jan 14th (because of solar precession. If corrections are applied, sankranthi can be moved back to dec 22). Am i correct in this? Chakravartula (talk) 12:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Name in Andhra Pradesh

(Discussion transcluded from the Sankranti talk page. --Belasd (talk) 04:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC))

It is also called as Makara Sankranti in Andhra.

I suggest that this article be merged with the article Sankranthi. Vasanthakumarep (talk) 14:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, please add Makar Sankranthi as synonym to Sankranti. 65.60.80.199 (talk) 15:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)spsbattu

Yes, please merge this article with sankranthi.

Yes, it's the same concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.236.190 (talk) 20:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge. These are one and the same --Kedar (talk) 21:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please merge —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.233.39 (talk) 07:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. I merged the Sankranti article to Sankranthi, as the latter seemed to be the older article. It was created on Feb. 2004 as opposed to the Sankranti article which was created during April 2004. --Belasd (talk) 04:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to remove description of Pongal and Lohri from Sankranti Page

I suggest that sections dedicated to Lohri and Pongal be removed from this page. Although they are celebrated on the same day as Sankranti, they are different festivals . Moreover, they each have their own dedicated wiki pages. --Myaoon (talk) 10:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Traditions & Rituals

Does anybody else feel that this section just rambles on and on? What is the point of pointing out similarities between Sankranti and other Hindu Festivals???--Myaoon (talk) 18:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Ucucha 12:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

---

Sankranthi → Makar Sankranti — Sankranti is just passing of the Sun from 1 zodiac to another. There are 12 other sankrantis, 4 of which are well-known [1], Makar sankranti being the most famous, in some places Makar Sankranti is simply called Sankranti or Sankranthi.—Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

To discuss between Makar Sankranti or Makara Sankranti

• Makar Sankranti 184,000 Google hits
• Makara Sankranti 60,900 hits

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:49, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

As no one has commented, it would be reasonable to move now. However, I wonder why you want it moved from Sankranthi to Sankranti; you didn't explicitly say it, and it's good to explain every change in the title. Ucucha 10:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: in all "On this day" entries till day, this article is listed as Makar Sankranti. Sankranti ([2]) is a Sanskrit word, Sankranthi is south Indian variation. "t" is pronounced as "th" in South India, thus in Andhra, Karnataka it is called Sankranthi. Similarly Ganapati is called Ganapathi in the South. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 12:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. Will you create a disambiguation page at Sankranthi or Sankranti after the move is carried out? (By the way, thanks for your message, but it is unnecessary, as I'll be watching any discussion I contributed to.) Ucucha 12:35, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Till an article on Sanskriti (the concept) or list of Sanskritis is not formed, a disambig is not necessary. Let a redirect remain. Also, most people may not know Sankranti refers to the astrological event, they may know it refers to the festival. Makar Sankranti is also referred as Sankranthi, though Makar Sanskranti is also used [3]. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 12:47, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, the page has been moved. Closing the RM now. Ucucha 12:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

bhagirath story

deleted this part of the story. No relevance to the main article. may be more relevant to the bhagiratha article.

There is another spiritually symbolic aspect of this story. The 60,000 cursed son of Maharaj Sagar
represent our thoughts, who become dull & dead because of uncultured & blind desire. Redemption of
such people is only by the waters of Gangaji, brought down ‘to’ & later ‘from’ the Himalayas with
great tapasya. This represents dedicated hard work to get the redeeming Brahma-Vidya, which alone
enlightens, enthuses & enlivens the life of anyone.

--Myaoon (talk) 23:57, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Adhik concept

This article does not discuss the role of the adhik concept responsible for Makar Sankranti falling on different dates than January 14. Can someone please shed some light on it? Rohini (talk) 05:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Makar Sankranti in Nepal

Makar Sankranti in Nepal is celebrated as "Magha Sakrati" which is the first day of the month "Magh" according to BS calendar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.72.150.46 (talk) 05:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Mayans celabrated

Sankranti is celebrated since the last 6,000 years, as archeological findings in Latin America prove that the Mayans celabrated something similar to Sankranthi with Pongal, Pala kayalu, as some kind of spring festival.

Sez who? The Maya maize god‎ ain't 6,000 years old, Pongal is Tamil and Pala kayalu leads nowhere. --Pawyilee (talk) 08:52, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Makar Sankrati is not equivalent of Thai Ponggal.

Thai Ponggal is truely a different celebration by Tamils(not only Tamil Hindus)based on their inscription and record in ancient and medieval Tamil literature.Thai ponggal must not be combined or a wrong perception created that Thai Ponggal is Tamil name for Makar Sankrati.Makar Sankrati also cannot be compared to harvest festival celebrated by Southeast Asia civilisation as Thai Ponggal is more relevant to be labelled as ancestor of their harvest festival as Hindu Cultural expansion were mostly done by Tamils.(Pallava,Cholas and pandians).It is also noted that people of Thailand celebrate their new year on same day as Tamils.--Rajendra Prasath Arumon (talk) 11:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Original research vs. providing citations

At 09:57 (UCT) on 16 January 2013 IP editor 117.197.54.32 tagged this article as containing original research. The high volume of IP editors and others who leave no citation trails behind them suggests that much of the content is from their own experiences; however, in the search for citations I have found that almost everything I looked at is supportable by reliable sources. So if you think a statement is dubious, please tag it with the Citation needed template. If you are editing using a reliable source, please provide a citation. If you are editing without a reliable source, please stop. See WP:Verifiability. --Bejnar (talk) 05:29, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Sanskrit words

Since this article is in English, please desist from using Sanskrit words as far as possible, as they may be difficult to understand for the reader.

For example,

It was on this day that Bhagirath finally did tarpan with the Ganges water for his 
unfortunate ancestors and thereby liberated them from the curse.

What is the meaning of the word 'Tarpan'?

Please replace them with English equivalents or descriptions.

--Myaoon (talk) 23:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

A simple link would do it. Tarpan means offering water to the gods, or God, (although milk is also used). The Sanskrit root apparently is trup (त्रुप्) meaning "to hurt". There are a variety of forms. Pitru tarpan is an offering of water to ensure blessings on deceased ancestors’ souls (pitar). Compare this with the washing of ashes in the Bhagiratha story, Bhagiratha#Establishment of the river, where Sagara's sixty thousand sons were blessed by the Ganges and ascended to heaven, see as well Vedic rituals after death. Interestingly enough, tarpan is also the name of a type of wild horse. According to the OED (1st ed.) a tarpan is a greyish wild horse that was formerly common in eastern Europe and western Asia, extinct by 1919 [Equus caballus gomelini.] Etymologically from Kyrgyz. --Bejnar (talk) 18:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Title change

It is Makara Sanskranthi, not Makar (that is Hindi and other derived langs.). can someone please change the title and corresponding words? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.67.10 (talk) 21:28, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Title still hasn't changed, can someone please change it? here's the corresponding wiki page on makara: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

you can see the name is spelled properly here. 99.120.240.17 (talk) 02:58, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

No. The festival name "Makar Sankranti" is spelled a variety of ways. The current title is used in numerous reliable sources, such as the BBC and The Times of India, and appears to be the majority spelling. --Bejnar (talk) 20:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you can read Devanagari but it is spelled Makara. The BBC as well as most western new sources are most likely using the Hindi term instead of the original/pan-Indian term of Makara. If you bothered to go to the Wiki page on MAKARA itself it shows in clear terms that in fact it is Makara and not Makar.

• http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Makara_%28Hindu_mythology%29

when Wiki's own page contradicts this statement, how can it be denied? either the wiki page on makara is also wrong or this page is wrong,right? i can assure you that it is in fact makara. sanskrutam endings rarely end in consonants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.120.240.17 (talk) 06:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Believe it or not, title usage on the Wikipedia is not governed by strict transliteration of non-English terms. Article titles are based on how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject. The BBC and The Times of India are good indicators of how reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject. When reliable sources generally agree on the usage, it really does not matter what other related Wikipedia articles might be entitled, nor what the formal source term may have been. --Bejnar (talk) 18:08, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

so the wiki pages have nothing to do w/ right vs. wrong? just what is in common use (which may be wrong) in western media? which may have a certain bias??? that is ridiculous and inaccurate!! at least also include that makara is the original word and makar is a variant used in the northern Indo-Aryan derivatives or something. this is so wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.120.240.17 (talk) 19:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

• This comes about because encyclopedias, like the Wikipedia, are descriptive, not prescriptive. --Bejnar (talk) 22:22, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Can we then add an descriptor ascribing region of origin as well as variations? Differentiating b/w original and derivative version? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.120.240.17 (talk) 01:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Only if it is encyclopedic and backed up by citations to reliable secondary sources. Otherwise it is not really pertinent in an encyclopedia. Where such sourced information is available, such discussions are usually placed in their own "Name" or "Etymology" section within the article. --Bejnar (talk) 21:55, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

-how can the very names and origin of the word not be relevant in an encyclopedia? that is mind boggling to me. well anyway you can see wiki's own page on makara for the citation. you can also see here: http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadict.pl?query=makara&display=simple&table=macdonell a dictionary on sanskrit. 207.68.250.79 (talk) 16:10, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the name change on the title. As we need to base on the Oldest Language (Samskrutam), there is no such word 'Makar', it is 'Makara'. As you mentioned that BBC is the trusted source, our vedic are much more trusted sources as, BBC or TOI doesn't make any research on these things. Please please refer to our vedic history and change the title. As the name had different varients in different languages, Sanskrit is the mother of all languages and this name 'Makar' will be placed against Hindi. As someone mentioned that most people searched for 'Makar' instead of 'Makara', that doesn't make sense to bias for it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.19.66.187 (talk) 14:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

14 January in India

14th January marks variety of festivals and celebrations in different parts of India and have very different names. This day also has astronomical and religious significance too. It is also harvest festival in some parts of India. How can we better organise this all info in one article and have corresponding articles linked there? We have several articles like Uttarayana, Makar Sankranti, International Kite Festival in Gujarat – Uttarayan, Lohri and Pongal. Any ideas?--Nizil (talk) 10:30, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

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Unsourced changes

@Dixitsandeep: All you additions seem unsourced. Please explain your concerns, if any and cite your sources. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:10, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

(copied from my talk page) Dixitsandeep writes, "You are calling December 21st the darkest night of the year. Where it is longest night ( in northern hemisphere of earth) , in southern hemisphere 21 December is longest day. You really need to understand Astronomy a bit more to write on dates and calendars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixitsandeep (talk • contribs)"

@Dixitsandeep: True, but India is in the northern hemisphere and this is a regional festival, not a global festival. The language we are using reflects what is supported by the sources and relevant to the context. It is unnecessary and overly confusing to explain Makar Sankranti from the context of Chile or Antarctica or Tasmania or etc. We need to stick to summarizing what in the WP:RS. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:35, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Source needed.

Hi,

Please share a good source for the following fact

"it marks the end of the month with winter solstice(December 21/22)"

Avoid sharing blogs and news.

Dixitsandeep (talk) 06:28, 17 January 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixitsandeep (talk • contribs) 05:52, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for Corrections

Thanks for the corrections made to the article. I am not a regular editor on Wiki and do not intend to be one. That's not in one of my passions. However, I will surely contribute when I see blatant errors.

It was shocking to see blatant errors the articles despite the fact that author look for references.

1. Calling 22nd December Darkest night rather than longest - Even Calling it longest night would be true only for northern hemisphere).

2. Stating that Makar Sankranti is supposed to be celebrated on 22nd December. Day after longest night - Day after longest night is different event in Hindu traditions called Uttrayana, marks start of apparent northwards movement of sun (as observed from earth). Uttrayana could refer to start of longer days or even to full 6 month of elongating days

3. Stating that Difference between Makar Sankaranti and Uttrayana is due a Calendar error - This is a natural difference and will exist irrespective of Calendars. Event of winter solstice and the event of Sun entering into any consolation (not just Capricorn or Makara) shift relative to each other by rate of 20 minutes per year or 1 day in 75 years. That's same as difference between Tropical year and Sidereal Year.

Well, we can find references for any information in today's world but that's not enough. We need to understand the details of what we are writing. If we depend on reference, prefer referencing university pages and research articles on complex subjects like Calendar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixitsandeep (talk • contribs) 06:13, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Dixitsandeep: Almost everyone is free and welcome to edit Wikipedia (exception: sanctioned accounts). I don't see "darkest" night in this version of the article (ignore the recent edit warring). For rest, let us avoid a WP:FORUM-y gossip and analysis of your thoughts. Do you have a specific reliable source for what you state? If so, please identify with page number. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:55, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch: Thanks for corrections. Since the errors are corrected now its good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixitsandeep (talk • contribs) 13:28, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Hindi version of the article does not match English version

Hindi version of this article does not match the English one. Its smaller in size but has critical errors. Winter solstice Image Caption says that "Sun Enter into Capricorn". Its quite funny caption for an image that neither shows sun nor the Capricorn.

Since the article is locked till 20th Jan, I cannot edit. I am not a regular contributor (and do not intend to be one ), but seeing errors in the subjects you like is painful. Calendars, Gregorian and Hindu, both are my areas of interest, so thought of correcting the errors. But as regular contributors wish. Dixitsandeep (talk) 13:35, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

English wikipedia does not mirror wikipedia in other languages. Please discuss wikipedia articles in other languages on their respective talk pages or with admins there. You can propose changes to this English language version, and we can work to incorporate a consensus version here. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:54, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

"English wikipedia does not mirror wikipedia in other languages." I understand that, and it very clear as soon as you see few pages. But that does not mean, Hindi version should have more Error than English. And you have locked Hindi version as well from Edits. Dixitsandeep (talk) 03:17, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Wauw! Editing in Sanskrit! Awesome! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:06, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Dixitsandeep: I have neither read nor edited Hindi wikipedia, please focus here on this English wikipedia article. JJ: Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 08:28, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch. My point was that Edit was blocked from Hindi version as well. Yes, Let's take final call on English version issues. Once that's done, i will start working on Hindi version and will do my best to match it with English one.

Dixitsandeep (talk) 06:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

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Newspapers as sources

Johnrameshkhan : Newspapers are not appropriate sources for history / etc diff. For example, the Indian Express also claims in the same blog-like article that "the celebration of this event can be traced back to millions of years". Claiming human beings lived millions of years ago in ancient India and celebrated the Makar Sankranti event then is ahistorical and fringe. Here is a cut-and-paste note from an admin on the care we must observe before relying on newspaper as sources:

Newspapers can be RS for news, but not RS for history / anthropology / etc

Journalists virtually never have scholarly training in history/anthropology/ethnography/etc. — they're generalists as far as this kind of thing goes, not knowing more than what's needed for background purposes, and as such we mustn't consider them reliable sources for such fields. Exceptions can exist, of course, and we can't discount a journalist merely because of his job (e.g. he could be an avocational anthropologist so dedicated to the field that he's a member of a learned society), but even then we should only trust his writings if they've gotten reviewed by other experts; the most scholarly journalist will have his newspaper writeups reviewed by nobody except the newspaper's editors, whom again we can trust to know a lot about news reporting but we can't trust to know much of anything about "olds" reporting. We can take newspaper reports as authoritative if we're writing a middle school report for our teachers, but encyclopedia writing demands better sources: whether they're written by professional academics, journalists with a lot of experience in scholarly work, or anyone else, they need to have gone through a scholarly review process. - Nyttend

If we can find a scholarly source that states that this festival was observed in December centuries ago, and will be observed in late January centuries from now, we can welcome such a statement with appropriate attribution. Otherwise, no. Comments welcome, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 19:52, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Johnrameshkhan: Please do not continue to edit war and add back non-WP:RS and newspapers with fringe-y blogs or op-eds. Please discuss and explain. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch Why should an important fact be hidden - that the festival is supposed to be celebrated either on winter solstice day (of Northern Hemisphere) or the day after that? The choice of such calendars has continuously shifted the celebration date away from the winter solstice.

There seems to be some problem with sources I provided. I agree it is not ok to quote news websites alone. But there is a difference between a news item in a news website and an article appearing in a news website. I added three more sources that were not from news websites. In spite of me adding non-news websites and a book as source, my edit was simply reverted. In fact, one article is from a right-wing website. My edit could have been marked for ‘Unreliable Source’ instead of simply reverting and threatening with edit-war templates. I would have tried for quoting better and "scholarly" sources.

This Wikipedia article is full of news-websites and fraud books as sources but only my edit is getting removed. Also, this line in the article - "It marks the end of the month with winter solstice for India and the longest night of the year". This is simply just a clever way of hiding the fact that the festival is simply being celebrated on a wrong date. Cleverly, the importance has been shifted from a particular date to a particular month. What will be said in the future - "It marks the beginning of the month that comes after the month with winter solstice" ??? And again further in the future - "It marks the end of the month that comes after the month with winter solstice" ???

Unlike many other Indian festivals this is one festival that still has its significance linked to an event in astronomy and shouldn’t depend on any date in a calendar. It would be a tribute to the ancient Indian astronomers if this fact is not hidden in this article.

The following is given in the Report of the Calendar Reform Committee appointed by the Indian government. The present official calendar of India was provided by this committee. According to the report - "The winter season (sisira) begins on the winter solstice day which date is also marked in all the Siddanthas by sun's entry (sankranti) into Makara. This event occurs on the 22nd December. But the Indian calendar makers, following the nirayana system, state that the Makara Sankranti happens not on the 22nd December but on the 14th January and the winter season also begins on that date. Similar is the case with other seasons also. The result is that there is a clear difference of 23 days in the reckoning of seasons. The later Hindu savants tried to reconcile the two points of view by adopting a theory of trepidation, which after Newton's explanation of precession, has been definitely shown to be false. It is therefore absolutely wrong to stick to the nirayana system." A link - http://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10152140961606675.pdf Appendix 5A (page 259)

Thank you Johnrameshkhan (talk) 07:21, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Johnrameshkhan: Please do not conflate "personal opinion" or what you read on a website/questionable source as "important fact". No forum-y discussions either please, see WP:TALK. You need to find a peer reviewed scholarly source or equivalent reliable source, per WP:RS guidelines. That would be welcome. The Saha and Lahiri link you give do not mention Makar Sankranti on page 259. We cannot do WP:Synthesis in wikipedia per our WP:NOR policy. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand. The page clearly talks about Makar Sankranti. Johnrameshkhan (talk) 15:33, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Johnrameshkhan: I found the quote you gave above, but it is OR:Synthesis to suggest as your edit did "In the 17th century, Makar Sankranti was around January 9 and in the 27th century, it shall be around January 23. It keeps on shifting, which is contrary to the belief that it stays on the same day." Are you now suggesting that we summarize the Saha and Lahiri discussion about Makara and the Nirayana system? I would be fine with that, assuming we do so without adding novel conclusions. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:04, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Hey ! Makar Sankrtanti and Uttrayana are two different worlds and hence proof should be submitted the one claiming them same. The part of India I am coming from, these are celebrated as different event and Makar Sankranti is not called Uttrayana. Winter Solistice is also called "Ayanayant- End of Ayana".

Only in few parts of India its wrongly celebrated on single day. [Ms Sarah Welch] Please substantiate your statements with good proofs. Dixitsandeep (talk) 03:25, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

[Ms Sarah Welch] Please explain why the research article submitted by Johnrameshkhan is not an acceptable proof. http://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10152140961606675.pdf Dixitsandeep (talk) 03:29, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Dixitsandeep: Proof of what? The link to Saha and Lahiri source merely explains over two pages of that Appendix, the difference between the Nirayana and Sayana systems. In one system the authors state Makar Sankranti is on 22 December, in the other system 14 January. It is not stating anywhere, Makar Sankranti drifts. It is not stating Makar Sankranti was celebrated in July a million years ago, or that it will be celebrated in February / March in 27th- or 270th-century in future. Extrapolating what they actually state to all these novel conclusions is original research. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 08:28, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch Please go through these.

http://astro.unl.edu/naap/motion3/sidereal_synodic.html https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ozwv/dobson/papers/report6/appi.html

Equinox shit with respect to Zodiac. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=KYLSMsduNqcC&pg=PA152&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

We need to be clear on Tropical year and Sidereal year and the fact that Gregorian Calendar is based on Tropical Year and not based on sidereal year. The difference between two years is 20 minutes.

The time taken by Sun to come at same position again is not equal to one tropical year (tropical year). That mean any event based on Sidereal Year will shift in Gregorian Calendar by 20 min per year or by 1 day in 75 years. Let me know if you need more references/clarification.

Dixitsandeep (talk) 05:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

God vs Deity terminologies in India and refering Sun as God.

There two set terms commonly used in Indian Society (or you can say Hinduism. Its a different debate whether there is really anything called Hinduism).

First set of terms: भगवान् (bhagawan) , ईश्वर (ishwar) , परमेश्वर (parameshwar)

All these terms refer to the almighty or God. I believe God is closest English word for these terms, if not exact translation. Not that there is no feminine terms in these words. These either all neuter gender or general purpose masculine terms (not necessarily implying a male). term bhagawan can even be used to address a person, when you intend show great respect to somebody.

Second Set of Terms: देव (deva) देवी (devi- famine of deva) देवता (devta. Another word for deva with same meaning)

These set of terms are used to denote divine people or divine natural elements. Deva is not God, but a divine entity or even person supposed to possess superhuman abilities. Its somewhat like angels but not exactly angels. There is no corresponding term in English that I know of.. may be 'deity' is the closest. even google wrongly translates देव as God https://www.google.co.in/search?q=english+of+%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B5&rlz=1C1CHBF_enIN770IN770&oq=english+of+%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B5+&aqs=chrome..69i57.10887j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Ancient Indians, probably all ancient civilizations, realized great impact of Sun on our lives and gave it status of deity. The deity sun is also part of many puranic stories. Deities are respected and can be worshipped. However, Deities are worshiped only on special occasions.

In context of Hinduism, term God is used there everywhere on internet for anything worshipable. Even Indians use this translation but mostly due to lack of any accurate word.

However, I would call sun as Deity translated from Surya Deva ( सूर्यदेव ) rather than Sun God.

With this explanation, I request correction of the sentence "The festival is dedicated to the Hindu sun god, Surya" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixitsandeep (talk • contribs)

Dixitsandeep: This talk page is not the place to share your opinions / prejudices / wisdoms. Please see WP:TALK and WP:TPNO guidelines. The sentence you mention is supported in WP:RS, so there is no need to correct it. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)