Talk:Lithium polymer battery

Citation error

Citation 19 goes to a 404 error page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schumi23 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Rewritten article 2014-06

As of today, I have basically rewritten the article. It describes mostly the "LiPo" cells, which are nothing more than the "lithium-ion" cells in the pouch format. Any reference which basically comes from radio-controlled hobbyists' websites is unacceptable, in my opinion.

I still think we need an article called

• lithium-polymer-electrolyte battery, or
• lithium-polymer battery (electrolyte), or
• lithium-polymer battery (solid electrolyte), or
• lithium-polymer battery (plastic electrolyte), etc.

which correctly describes the lithium-ion batteries that don't have liquid electrolyte, but use a kind of plastic ionic conductor.

I have done serious academic research on Li-ion, but these other "polymer-electrolyte" batteries are a different topic, which requires input from a real expert. As far as I know, the latter cells are still a matter of research and not widely commercialised, but I don't discard concrete products, especially in niche sectors.----137.132.22.191 (talk) 11:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Just for reference, the matter of "true" polymer vs. "wrongly-called" polymer lithium batteries has been discussed in the past. Please see the archive pages:

• Article should be deleted/merged
• Design Origins

Some of those discussions were made from 2009 to 2013, reflecting the state of the article at that time, however the general idea is still valid. Overall my feelings are:

• "Lithium polymer" causes confusion
• "Lithium polymer" must refer the reader to the lithium ion article clearly, and explain about the confusion of the terms
• "Lithium-polymer battery (plastic electrolyte)" or some variation should discuss the topic of "true" polymer-electrolyte batteries.----137.132.22.191 (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Of the options presented, I strongly prefer the very first. I do question the state of the industry though; is there enough actual research ongoing to suggest a separate article? Or is this one of many (many) potential improvements that may or may not make it to production? That's a fine line, obviously, but one worth considering. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think there is enough actual research. See the answer of (User talk:89.88.183.54) 18:48, 4 October 2015 (UTC) ----137.132.22.253 (talk) 10:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I just added the Bolloré Bluecar as an example of industrial application, and it turns out that it is a "real" lithium polymer battery with dry electrolyte. And looking at the other applications, I'm not at all sure that the distinction explained at the beginning of the article is relevant anymore. The following phrase is particularly confusing : "While the design is usually flat, and lightweight, it is not a true polymer cell, as the electrolyte is still in liquid form, albeit it may be "plasticized" or "gelled" through a polymer additive". If the electrolyte is liquid it's not lithium polymer battery if it is "gelled through a polymer additive" then it's probably a lithium polymer battery.89.88.183.54 (talk) 18:48, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, this is exactly what I meant. As far as I know, the Bollore cells are the only commercially available "real" polymer cells with significant impact. I don't know of any other examples. This is good for the industry but still presents confusion for the article. The fact remains that most users of batteries still think of the "lithium-polymer" batteries as the "flat" batteries for radio-controlled devices. By the way, the amount of "polymer" in the cells is not nearly enough to make them "gelled". Polymers exist in many substances and combinations of them, but that does not mean we should actively encourage adding the adjective polymer to the finished product. I think with the commercialisation of the Bollore cells it is even more important to have two separate articles, one for the "real" polymer cell (with the Bollore cells included), and one explaining the misnomer, and pointing to the lithium ion article.----137.132.22.253 (talk) 10:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

People writing about lithium polymer batteries seem to be referring to the gelled polymer electrolyte. Nobody calls them "polymer" because they come in a plastic bag. Distinguish between solid and gel electolytes. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:17, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

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What are the actual chemistries of the positive sides, (and the role of the polymer)?

Polymer in LiPO only refers to the electrolyte. The negative side would typically be some form of Li-intercalated carbon. Since PO refers to the electrolyte the positive side could, at least in principle, be any of the positive side chemistries used with Li-ion batteries, but what positive chemistries are actually used with commercial LiPO-batteries? Furthermore, is the electrolyte really composed of a polymer only? Would that have an ionic conductivity that is high enough? For the gelled types I would presume that the electrolyte is similar (LiPF6 in organic solvent) to that of wet types and that the polymers is added only for gelling. For other types I also suspect that the polymer needs to be modified with ionic components so how much is the polymer actually involved in the ionic conduction of the electrolyte?150.227.15.253 (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

This page in its current form is highly misleading. Please accept my edits

I spent half a day re-writing this page because it was misleading and inaccurate. I know it was misleading and inaccurate because it became apparent through talking to someone I have been explaining this stuff to that he had been mislead by the content of this page.

In general usage "lithium polymer" refers to a packaging type, not a battery chemistry.

I redrafted the page in a way that clarified the contemporary usage while also explaining the original basis for the terminology which relates to research and development into cells with a unique electrolyte chemistry that has never been successfully commercialised. I referenced authoritative sources which confirm this.

I also removed outdated and overly detailed material about random commercial applications for lithium cells that are not informative or specific, illustrate nothing, and were in any case out of date and generally referenced to low value sources.

All of the above edits were reverted.

How do I get my edits accepted? If the editor for this page is too busy to review and consider extensive edits without reflexively reverting them, will this page remain a source of misinformation indefinitely? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BiggusX (talk • contribs) 15:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

It is ridiculous to me as well that this article, and Wikipedia coverage of Lithium ion batteries in general, remains in such a confused and abysmal state. This article even states that lithium polymer batteries are not commercially used in one place, and then goes on to use the lay definition of "lithium polymer" elsewhere. Either lithium polymer is "lithium ion in a pouch", the lay usage, or it refers to the solid electrolyte batteries that only ever existed in a lab. We need to decide, and then stick to it. Also if it's just the lay usage, this article has little reason to exist, since the main lithium ion article covers pouch packaged lithium ion just as well or better. Gigs (talk) 02:03, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Storage and operating temperatures

There are many rumors and myths on the internet regarding the correct storage temperatures -- a thing that should be addressed in this article. Also the operating temperatures, which is not the same temperature range as for storage. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 23:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Misleading and harmful page

This page mixes a lot of different concepts and, judging by the discussion it has been doing so for a while. It talks about solid state polymer electrolyte batteries, a technology in development, it talks about gel batteries, it talks about Li-poly batteries which are liquid pouch Li-ion batteries... It illustrates with a li-poly battery from a smartphone, then it states that it's a developing technology which has not been commercialized yet (source from 2019, it's not a matter of an outdated source). In the intro Li-poly is different from li-ion because the first has a solid electrolyte and the second a liquid. In the safety paragraph they are included inside the li-ion batteries. It is absolute nonsensical. What is worse, if you try to look for information about it online most pages and AI-language models took the information from wikipedia so all these contradictions are spread further. Either is Li-poly which has been used for years by consumer electronics or is Solid state polymer batteries which is in development. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.103.254.11 (talk) 15:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)