Talk:List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors (Marvel Studios)

Vision and The Vision

Hey, @Favre1fan93 and Richiekim: I found reliable sources for white Vision's official name being "The Vision", the first one being the end credits and the second one being an interview with Bettany. so I added it back to WandaVision. But should we list them together here? Should it be "Vision / The Vision" together, or should we keep "Vision" under "Introduced in the Infinity Saga" and place "The Vision" under "Introduced in WandaVision"? —El Millo (talk) 00:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: Great find on the Marvel.com source! (We can use that one where ever needed) I think they should both be in one row, not separate, with the cell being "Vision / The Vision". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:46, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Alternatively (and technically), the character introduced in the Infinity Saga would be "The Vision", while "Vision" was introduced in WandaVision. But I think for our purposes, one row works. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:00, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

References

Howard Stark in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier

@Facu-el Millo:, Howard Stark didn't appear in the series. It's a fact. This reliable source has not provided any timecodes, screenshots, or any other confirmation of this character's appearance. Oster Twistiy (talk) 19:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

It's in the same flashback that Stark's mother appears, only that, because the focus is on Stark's mother, only the back of Howard's head is visible. The reliable source doesn't need to provide a timecode or a screenshot, it just needs to be reliable and state his appearance. This source also states the appearance of the flashback to Howard and Maria Stark's death. If you want to see if for yourself, it's at the 00:02:48 mark of "The Whole World Is Watching". Granted, it's minimal, and you could even argue that it isn't notable, but it's there. If other editors come in and agree that it's not worthy of inclusion, we'll remove. But he's there. —El Millo (talk) 21:44, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

I'd probably say it isn't notable. Both sources say it shows the murder of Howard and Maria Stark. Even if the back of Starks head wasn't shown they would still refer to it as that since that is the scene it is referring to. Without a shot of the face, taking part of the filming, or cast credits of the archive footage we don't actually know if that was really Slattery or a stunt/body double for that instance in the quick flashback. WikiVirusC^(talk) 23:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I'll go ahead and remove it and if someone disagrees they can explain their reasons here. —El Millo (talk) 23:46, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

According to this logic, it was possible to include an Iron man in the table, because part of his armor was also in a flashback. We need to include all such moments or none.

Oster Twistiy (talk) 02:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I am all for having some sort of standard. Personally I think since it is list of MCU TV actors, it should be limited to those who acted for the TV shows specifically. If they acted for a Movie and archival footage is used from the Movie, I don't think they should be included. Yes they appeared, but they didn't act for the tv series, and this is a list of the TV actors not list of TV appearances. But currently it seems we are using archive for several characters, and list is actually based on appearances. We at least should limit it to actors we can identify, not just character's bodies. WikiVirusC^(talk) 02:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Guardians of the Galaxy Special

Should we add the Guardians Holiday Special cast? According to this Draft, Chris Pratt, Zoe Saldana, Dave Bautista, Vin Diesel and Bradley Cooper are set to return. AxGRvS (talk) 00:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

The references in the draft don't actually confirm actors yet. The Variety source there says "the main cast" would appear, so the actors were added in the draft. Updated sources are actually going to be needed, and once those come out, we can add to the table here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Loki episode 1 archive actors

Because of the sheer amount of them, it seems a bit excessive to me to include them in the table. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Definitely. The archived actors shouldn't be created. – ChannelSpider (talk) 17:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

They seem relevant. The episode is all about past films' events. Plus there aren't that many (six Avengers, Odin, Frigga, Coulson, Valkyrie, Thanos, and Rumlow), and some of them were already included in the table for other series. We'd need to come up with a better rationale than "there's many of them". —El Millo (talk) 17:44, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I remember seeing Kurse too. I'll be rewatching later, but at least on my first watch, it seemed like there were an excessive amount (at least in my opinion). We should definitely add them to the episode draft though. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I just remember the hand stabbing Frigga. I mean, we shouldn't add them if we only saw their hand of a tiny tiny glimpse of them from behind. They might've caught a frame or two of Alexander Pierce's back in the scene from Endgame, but that's clearly not relevant. I don't remember seeing Rumlow either, but someone added it so I guess he was. But I think we should keep Odin, Frigga, Coulson, and the six Avengers at the very least, given that there's entire plot points of the episode based on their archive appearances. —El Millo (talk) 17:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Doing a quick scrub through and here's what we've got (I'll list each time a new prominent appearance is made). Opening from Endgame - six Avengers, Ant-Man (being tiny in the lobby hitting the case); Time theater - Coulson, Frigga, Kurse (you see his face and arm holding Frigga), Odin, and Thanos. So I guess outside of what you've mentioned, Ant-Man and Kurse can be hit or miss, but definitely no Rumlow. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I was thinking about not including Ant-Man because it was clearly just CGI there and not Paul Rudd, and I don't think his voice is heard. If Kurse's face is shown, and it seems to be relevant since he killed Frigga, then I guess that it should be added. —El Millo (talk) 18:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

That works for me. I still personally feel like it's a lot, but that's honestly because it was. They went through a lot of moments! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, it's an honest representation of the episode. —El Millo (talk) 20:07, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, damn it. It seems Rumlow and Sitwell appear for a second and Alexander Pierce's voice is heard as well as his back and arm are seen. @Favre1fan93: should we include them too? I still think we can consider their split-second appearances not relevant enough to list them. —El Millo (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I hadn't even considered adding Ashley Johnson's character, since I thought she didn't have a name and wasn't even listed under The Avengers in the Infinity Saga list of actors, but it seems her character is called Beth, so she could potentially be added here. I think she should be added to the Infinity Saga list of actors, but still doubt she should be added here. —El Millo (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes I agree on still excluding Rumlow, Sitwell, and Pierce (definitely him). I'm 50/50 on if we do Kurse, as the moment really is about Frigga dying, but he is the one to do it and is prominently shown. Johnson's character I can see including because they end the clip on her and she's prominently show for a little bit (and agree with adding her to the Infinity Saga list). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. If we find a source we'll add Kurse, but if we don't it's not a big deal, we can leave him out. —El Millo (talk) 21:03, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Already added Ashley Johnson to the Infinity Saga article. I couldn't find any reliable source for her appearance in Loki, and haven't been able to find anything to back up Hawkeye and Black Widow appearing. The only source I found is Looper, which would cover both Ashley Johnson and the original six Avengers appearing, but I'm pretty sure it's unreliable and we can't use it. —El Millo (talk) 01:39, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Alternatively, could we use the episode itself as a source with time stamps for appearances of those characters that are left? Its use wouldn't contradict anything stated in WP:PRIMARY, as far as I understand it. —El Millo (talk) 01:50, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Looper is alright to use I believe. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:24, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Are you sure? I couldn't find any sign of editorial oversight. On the other hand, it is really basic info. —El Millo (talk) 17:11, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

About and Policies pages. But yeah, it's just to put 2 and 2 together for the appearances, so it's also fine in my eyes for that. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Alright, let's go ahead then. —El Millo (talk) 22:31, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

References

I think Rumlow, Sitwell and Valkyrie should be added, they're clearly seen, unlike Pierce who is only seen from the back. AxGRvS (talk) 01:24, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

The main thing is that their appearances are so minimal that it's unlikely we'll find a source, even marginally reliable as Looper, that comments on it. Also, unlike all the others added, their appearances seem merely incidental and are not related to the plot of the episode at all. The appearances of the six Avengers, Odin, Frigga, Thanos, and Coulson have relevance in the plot, while Ashley Johnson is also highlighted individually. —El Millo (talk) 01:29, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Valkyrie I think we should keep, since it's the prominent shot from Ragnarok of her, Loki, and Thor on the Rainbow Bridge. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:44, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93: I'm fine with that if we can find a source, but I've been searching for it and haven't found anything. —El Millo (talk) 02:20, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

What If characters

Since it appears that all the characters as they appear in What If are variants of the main MCU characters, I think we should move the character rows to be under the What If section. Let's take T'Challa for example. Since he is also Star-Lord in his appearance, we should put "T'Challa / Star Lord" as the character name and row. Think of it how we do with President Loki and his other variants as they were introduced in the series. The main Loki is under the Infinity War introductions because he was introduced there. All these What If characters were not. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:40, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a very complicated situation. Other than Loki and Gamora, we didn't list any of the "variants" who appeared in Endgame (Peggy, Frigga, Howard Stark, Rumlow, Red Skull, etc.) separately in the film actors article. If the justification for that is because those characters only appear in one project, the same can be said for What If...?. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:07, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

But those "variants" have never been described as alternate versions as far as I know. The ones that were "variants" to those timelines were the original Avengers. In What If we are explicitly dealing with alternate versions of characters. I'm still wary of the change though, but I think it's more an initial reluctance to change than anything else. —El Millo (talk) 20:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Those characters are not explicitly variants like Loki Loki and new Gamora are. I agree with Favre that we should probably treat the variants in What If as being in the same category as Sylvie and the Loki variants introduced in that show. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

According to Loki logic, everyone who exists outside of the "Sacred Timeline" are variants. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:22, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a concept that's still very muddy and unclear. We still don't know exactly what "Sacred Timeline" means. One thing we know is that Ravonna said everything in Endgame except Loki escaping was meant to happen, so no character in Endgame is a variant except this Loki. But regardless, we can't just call any character an alternate version if it's not in reliable sources, and we also have to think about WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. Classifying all those past characters that appeared in Endgame and interacted with the future versions for a few moments onscreen as "variants" or "alternate versions", giving them their own separate rows, a footnote, and everything else, is undue weight. —El Millo (talk) 20:32, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm happy if we want to address this more in a few weeks once the episodes start, but I did feel that at least with "Captain Carter" and T'Challa / Star-Lord, those 2 instances are characters that are clearly variants and probably should be moved under the introduced in What If heading. But then we could get say Yondu, who for all intents is the "same" from his previous film appearances, so maybe he stays in the Infinity War section. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:35, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

It may be better to wait for the episodes to release, then we'll have a wide variety of sources and we'll be able to see how they refer to different characters based on similarities and differences with the previously established versions. —El Millo (talk) 21:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Sure. And for us here, how about something like this for a guideline on when a character maybe should or shouldn't be moved to a new heading location. If the character has a major narrative or visual departure from an incarnation previously seen, then they get the new placement. In this wording, someone like Captain Carter (she takes the super soldier serum) or T'Challa (he's Star-Lord) moves, but the variants seen in Endgame that InfiniteNexus noted above wouldn't (outside of an {{efn}} if necessary) because all of those had no major deviations. Beyond having sourcing, this could be a good principle to follow, should we make these changes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:19, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Agree InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:23, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good. —El Millo (talk) 21:23, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Great, we'll keep this in our back pocket once What If premieres. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:29, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Alright – ChannelSpider (talk) 21:31, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I know we said we'd wait for this to premiere, but would there be any objections to moving Carter, T'Challa, Strange, or Heist Nebula now, since we have new character names and actors for these? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

No objections, go ahead and move them. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:15, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Should we add Hydra Stomper and Zombie Cap as well? IronManCap (talk) 20:59, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Not until there's an actor attached. —El Millo (talk) 21:02, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Of course. It's in the title. Silly me. --IronManCap (talk) 21:03, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

John Flynn and Nebula in What If

Hi, I think John Flynn should be listed as "Introduced in Marvel One-Shots". Also, Karen Gillan is not listed as Nebula in What If. AxGRvS (talk) 23:29, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

See above about Nebula and a larger discussion regarding the What If characters. She is known as "Heist Nebula", which is not the character introduced in the films. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Kingpin

Why is Kingpin on the 'Introduced in Hawkeye' section and not on one that says 'Introduced in Marvel Television series' or something like that? AxGRvS (talk) 01:53, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Because, as with Matt Murdock in List of MCU film actors, we still don't know if it's the same iteration. —El Millo (talk) 06:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

yeah but we should not assume that they are different versions. Putting it as 'Introduced in Hawkeye' or in Matt Murdock's case as 'Introduced in No Way Home', it seems as if we are assuming that. AxGRvS (talk) 14:47, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

I think there is still not something that has shown that they are different versions. I propose to list those characters as 'Introduced in Marvel Television series' or 'Introduced in Marvel's Netflix series' to be more specific until these are proven to be new iterations. AxGRvS (talk) 14:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

But where's the indication that they are the same. That's more WP:OR in this instance. These characters are being introduced to the MCU "proper" in each of these properties until there is more concrete and explicit confirmation they are the same versions from the Netflix series. As I explained when I made these changes, this is not the same as Jarvis appearing in Endgame, because Agent Carter is the only Marvel Television series to have any involvement from Marvel Studios, so that is a natural inclusion and hence such distinction is made for him. With the Netflix series, any of the YA series, and heck even Agents of SHIELD at this point, we can't automatically assume if an actors is returning to a role from those series in a Marvel Studios production that they are the same versions. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't think this is original research. I disagree with your point of view but I think it's the same for both takes as there is also no indication that those are different versions. I just think it would be more appropriate to list them as being introduced in those Marvel Television series that were originally intended to take place in the MCU, at least until it becomes clear that they are separate iterations (if it turns out that way). AxGRvS (talk) 17:55, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

If we don't know if its the same version, then we shouldn't be putting it as "Introduced in Marvel Television" until that is known. And regardless, D'Onofrio has said while he tried playing it the same and connecting "dots" between the two, there are still aspects that can't be connected that make him a different version. So at best we can say the appearance in Hawkeye is using the comics and Daredevil performance to establish this take, but it's still a new (that's key) portrayal, not a direct continuation. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:02, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Wait, we still don't know if it's not a direct continuation by D'Onofrio's comments. Some changes like an increased strength don't immediately mean it isn't a direct continuation, we've seen much bigger changes within the canon such as different designs and even different actors. We put Kingpin in Introduced in Hawkeye because we know that to be true when it comes to Marvel Studios productions regardless of its introduction in Marvel TV, not as confirmation that it's not the same character from the Daredevil series. —El Millo (talk) 21:12, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

In this interview, D'Onofrio says Marvel was "trying their best to keep Daredevil as part of the canon" YgorD3 (talk) 21:45, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Favre1fan93 Well idk, what is clear to me is that you always find a way to accommodate everything according to your preference, regardless of how things are put or said AxGRvS (talk) 21:55, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

"We put Kingpin in Introduced in Hawkeye because we know that to be true when it comes to Marvel Studios productions regardless of its introduction in Marvel TV, not as confirmation that it's not the same character from the Daredevil series" Facu-el Millo Then why on the film actors list we have James D'Arcy (Edwin Jarvis) as "Introduced in Agent Carter", which is a Marvel TV series (regardless of Marvel Studios being somewhat involved) AxGRvS (talk) 22:00, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Also why are we deciding based only on what Favre1fan93 says? AxGRvS (talk) 22:02, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

"So at best we can say the appearance in Hawkeye is using the comics and Daredevil performance to establish this take, but it's still a new (that's key) portrayal, not a direct continuation" so I guess this isn't original research? AxGRvS (talk) 22:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Because we know there's no doubt that D'Arcy plays the same character. With Kingpin, there have been doubts cast, at least for now, so in order not to put him somewhere he might not belong, we put him in what I would consider a "safe place", where we aren't assuming anything. Anyway, I was about to check for what most sources interpret out of the most recent interview D'Onofrio had, and see if they think it's confirmed to be the same character or if they're still not convinced.

So far, this discussion has had few participants: you, Favre, me, and Ygor. Ygor only had one, recent, comment, citing the interview. I'm pretty convinced it's the same Kingpin by this last interview, so seemed to be convinced even before the interview, and Favre still has doubts. It doesn't seem wrong to me to try and convince everyone in such a narrow discussion before implementing a change. —El Millo (talk) 22:10, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Okay, so all the ones I checked cast interpret D'Onofrio's comments as a confirmation of it being the same character:

• D'Onofrio with Entertainment Weekly: I know that we were picking up with the same guy. It's tough to connect all the dots, but they connected as many as they could and that he had lost a bit of his power because of the Blip. But the idea [was] to bring him into Hawkeye, to have him be that same character that he was in the earlier show, and play him like that
• CinemaBlend: It’s the same character ... then it says basically the same he said before about connecting as many dots as they could though some were impossible to connect. Then CinemaBlend says: So worry not, fans, this version of New York’s biggest crime boss is meant to be the same one you first met back in 2015. There definitely have been a few alterations made to the character, such as his physical durability ...
• TVLine: The actor also confirms that this version of Fisk is the same we saw in Daredevil. “That’s how I played him, and I think that was the general idea,” D’Onofrio explains. But while he’s the same guy, there were some notable differences. For starters, the Disney+ series established him as Maya’s “uncle” and leader of the Tracksuit Mafia. Plus, his ability to rip the door off a car when confronting Eleanor Bishop painted him as a much stronger man than we saw in Daredevil. D'Onofrio: ... emotionally, and as far as the history that was discussed, it was done with an eye on connecting as many dots from Daredevil to Hawkeye as possible,
• D'Onofrio with Collider: I think it's definitely a continuation, like there's no difference to me. There's the physical strength that's different. The fact that he can take more violent abuse, physical abuse is different, but it's very clear with the writers and the producers and the directors that I'm continuing the same man that was in the series a few years ago, in Daredevil.

I think it's clear. He mostly says the same in all of these. That it's the same character, that he played it as the same character, and the main difference is that he's stronger in Hawkeye, that's the only difference he names. In the quote from Collider, he even says that it's very clear with the writers and the producers and the directors that I'm continuing the same man as in Daredevil, so he's not only talking about how he personally approaches the role as if it were the same character, he says basically all the creatives agree that it's the same character. I think the Collider source is the best one to use as reference for including him in the Introduced in Marvel Television series section. —El Millo (talk) 22:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

References

I agree Facu-el Millo AxGRvS (talk) 23:16, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Nothing really new, but in this interview here's a quote where D’Onofrio uses the word "canon" while stating that he's playing the same character from Daredevil: "I was able to bring that exact character into Hawkeye . Although in Hawkeye he’s physically stronger, he is that same character and it is the same canon,"YgorD3 (talk) 13:41, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

I think we have more than enough to change the character's location. —El Millo (talk) 17:22, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

 Done. —El Millo (talk) 20:36, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Facu-el Millo, done the same for Matt in NWH SirDot (talk) 22:08, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

SirDot, I don't know if we can do that, as assuming both are the same because D'Onofrio confirmed one of them, while sensible and most likely true, may qualify as WP:SYNTH. —El Millo (talk) 22:14, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Using D'Onofrio's comments for Cox or any other potential actor returning from the Netflix series is indeed WP:SYNTH. I've gone and reverted any indications for Cox as such. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I personally also think it's too soon to tell. We should however add a note stating that there is yet no official confirmation (or in-universe confirmation) to the relation to his previous appearances. Gonnym (talk) 18:56, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

That was my thinking too. That at least from the one appearance in Hawkeye, we don't actually know that he's the same character from Daredevil. I understand what D'Onofrio said how he played and approached the character, and behind the scenes what the conversations were. But as Gonnym noted, it hasn't actually been reflected or stated on screen yet. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:32, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

With D'Onofrio, it has been confirmed they're the same version. If it turns out in the future that they're different versions, we can change it then, but to consider this repeated and very explicit confirmation not to be a confirmation would be to go against sources and into original research. With Daredevil, we just have to keep it as it is until we hear something different, either confirming they're the same or confirming they're different. —El Millo (talk) 04:26, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

A confirmation by an actor is a pretty bad source. The fact that the series didn't mention any plot point from Daredevil is a red flag. Gonnym (talk) 13:29, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

The actor said that the directors, writers, and producers agreed with him on it being the same Kingpin. For now, there's nothing else but our suspicion that it may not actually be the case, and that holds little weight against all the reliable sources that interviewed him, all of which asked him about it and all of which were answered basically the same thing, give or take a few details. —El Millo (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

I started a similar discussion over at the list of film actors for the cameos in No Way Home. From my perspective, I believe that it is irrelevant whether the returning Marvel TV actors are the "same versions" unless there is coverage of them explicitly being different or from different universes etc. as from an encyclopaedic and common coverage perspective they are the same actors playing the same characters and the burden should be on any extra canon-y/trivia-y stuff to be explained and justified rather than us taking the most complicated, in-universe-y perspective by default. An example of the "burden should be on any extra canon-y/trivia-y stuff to be explained and justified" would be the MCU version of JJJ which Marvel was very explicit about being a new and separate character despite Simmons' return, and that has not happened here for Kingpin and Daredevil. My suggestion is that it makes the most sense from an out-of-universe perspective and from a readability perspective to have an "introduced in Marvel TV series" heading for both lists as well as an "introduced in other franchises" heading (or something like that) at the film list for the Spider-Man franchise returners, but I also suggested a compromise of "introduced in non-Marvel Studios properties" that I think could be used here as well. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:48, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

I'll copy the relevant part of my response there: I do generally agree with you when you put it that way about the actors. I'd still differentiate between "different franchises" such as the Raimi and Webb Spider-Man films and the Marvel TV series such as Daredevil. —El Millo (talk) 04:54, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Phase Four section - splitting by years?

With What If season 2 at this time confirmed to be in 2022, it's becoming apparent the table is getting increasingly "cramped" and probably won't be slowing down. I'm proposing the table be split up by years similarly to the Netflix series section at the Marvel Television actors list. The example of this can be seen here. I've split it by 2021-22, and then anything after 2022. Thoughts? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:14, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

It would be better to read if 2021 and 2022 would be separately. Together 2021 & 2022 looks still bad. Mike210381 (talk) 03:25, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I think separating 2021 and 2022 is unnecessary. Ee can try it and see how it looks, but we'd end up with three separate tables. —El Millo (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

We definitely don't need three separate tables, but I do think we need to split up the table. We can't keep adding series and/or additional seasons to it; it'll get too cramped. Splitting at the confirmed 2022 series/seasons seemed liked a nice break point to be enough for one table, but still not cramped. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:11, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't think splitting up 2021 and 2022 is any worse than having them together and splitting off another three series in their own table which seems super arbitrary. If we are going to do any splitting by years based on what we currently know then I would support having a separate table per year. The Netflix split was a lot more straight-forward as there was a clear splitting point, and the only equivalent thing to that which I can see is that the 2021 shows were the first "wave" of announcements and the 2022 shows weren't revealed until later on. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

You can see splitting by years on pl:Lista obsady w serialach Marvel Cinematic Universe#Seriale Disney+. Mike210381 (talk) 12:10, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Restarting this again. Can we look at splitting the known Phase Four series by those that released in 2021 and 2022, and then starting a subsequent table for the TBA (likely 2023) releases? Just looking at it again, and the cell columns seem extremely thin/squished and splitting off some of the projects would give the material more room to "breathe". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:36, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I strongly support splitting up the tables, but 2021 and 2022 separately, and then 2023 and beyond. Leaving 2021 and 2022 together won't be better and still will be very tight and hard to read. Mike210381 (talk) 15:52, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Including both the 2021 and 2022 projects would put us at nine, which wouldn't still be very tight, as that would be slightly under both the current Phase Four film actors table, and the Phase Three table. As well, breaking across multiple years is being done with the Netflix table. Though that break was by The Defenders which was natural for that, we don't have that luxury for the Phase Four TV series, so simply doing it by what released in each calendar year seemed the best approach to make this more manageable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

What would be the heading for the subsection with all the shows after 2022? Given they don't have a release date yet. —El Millo (talk) 17:11, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

"Upcoming series" or "Announced series" would work I feel. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93: 9? Are you sure that we will have only 4 shows in 2022? Mike210381 (talk) 18:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

We can't know for sure. What we do know is that we have four shows with no announced year of release, and four announced for 2022 including the two already released. On the subheading, Upcoming or Announced seem too ambiguous, as Ms Marvel and the rest are also announced and upcoming. How about something along the lines of No release set or No release year set? —El Millo (talk) 19:03, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I think "upcoming" is fine if it is presented how we present dates, so something like Phase Four (2021-22) and Phase Four (upcoming)? And then that could be changed to Phase Four (2023-) once we know they aren't coming this year? - adamstom97 (talk) 22:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

It would be dealt with in subsections. A subsection under Phase Four that's "2021–2022" and another one that's called a name yet to be determined. —El Millo (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Here's how it would look like. —El Millo (talk) 03:37, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: That looks fine with me. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:57, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

 Done. —El Millo (talk) 23:45, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I Am Groot?

@Facu-el Millo:, if you visit the official Marvel website, you will see "I Am Groot" among other Disney+ series in the TV Shows section. Regarding canonicity: Gunn never said that this project is not MCU canon. Verbatim: "They are animated shorts so not necessarily part of the Guardians saga" and "They’re canon to themselves, I’d think". I still suggest returning it to the table. Oster Twistiy (talk) 03:44, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

This was previously discussed here and here. I Am Groot is a series of short films, not a TV series, so it should not be included here or on the TV series page. Marvel.com has it filed under TV shows because they don't even have a subpage for short films. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:55, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

"...because they don't even have a subpage for short films" - this is a weak argument. Anyway, if the tactic involves waiting as discussed in the discussions, well, let's wait. Oster Twistiy (talk) 11:05, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

The shorts aren't canon, much in the way Team Thor isn't canon. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:40, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

It's your imagination? If not, please provide a source. I gave verbatim quotes, which most likely you were going to refer to. They don't back up your statement. Oster Twistiy (talk) 14:10, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Today we can say that you were right, I am Groot is canon to the MCU, so I think we must add it in this page as the canonicity is proved ! 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 02:08, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

"canonicity" is irrelevant considering I Am Groot is not a TV series and this article is just for TV series actors. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:33, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Not even a note saying that the characters of Groot and Rocket appear in "I am Groot" ? 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 10:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

It appears you have just ignored what I said and asked for notes in every section. Like I already explained, I Am Groot is not a TV series and this article is only for TV actors. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:49, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch your language ! You don't have to be direspectful like that ! I read what you said ! You don't own that page ! 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:6549:158:4FD0:BB29 (talk) 21:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

And it appears that you don't have read that I said either ! I took the example of Phil Coulson who have three notes making link with MCU One-Shot or other show that are show TV series. I wonder why the same thing can't be done for Groot and Rocket but apparently proposing ideas here is banned ... 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:6549:158:4FD0:BB29 (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I have not used any bad language or said anything disrespectful. If you don't have anything productive to say then please leave the talk page, this is not a forum. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

A character from Ms. Marvel appears in a film

Agent Deever from Ms. Marvel first appeared in No Way Home: https://thedirect.com/article/spider-man-no-way-home-ms-marvel-character 170.239.28.58 (talk) 02:48, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, on the reflection. How can we handle this in the article for Agent Deever ? 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 02:03, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I think other discussions about this have found consensus that there is not enough here to go on, if she does appear in the film it is barely. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:33, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, and what about a note ? 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 10:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

It appears you have just ignored what I said and asked for notes in every section. As I already explained, consensus is that there is nothing there to note. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:49, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch your language ! You don't have to be direspectful like that ! I read what you said ! You don't own that page ! 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:6549:158:4FD0:BB29 (talk) 21:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I have not used any bad language or said anything disrespectful. If you don't have anything productive to say then please leave the talk page, this is not a forum. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

A photo of Titania appeared in Ms. Marvel.

As we can read in this article : https://thedirect.com/article/ms-marvel-post-credits-scene-she-hulk-characters, a picture of Titania appeared in the post-credit scene of the first episode of Ms Marvel. How can we handle this in this article ? 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 02:05, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

This looks like it is true, and may be worth a mention somewhere, but it should not be added to this list because a photo of an actor does not count as an appearance. I believe the only time we have included a photo appearance was for Howard Stark in the first Iron Man and that was because they hired a new actor specifically for all of those photos. That is likely not the case here, looks like they probably just took screenshots from She-Hulk and put them in Ms. Marvel to help clarify the timeline. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you, maybe just a note is okay, for Titania and for the other character that we haven't seen yet in She-Hulk (some says Mr. Immortal) 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:A434:28D2:BD18:29B7 (talk) 10:26, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

It appears you have just ignored what I said and asked for notes in every section. As I already explained, photo appearances should not be added to this list, even as a note. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:50, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Watch your language ! You don't have to be direspectful like that ! I read what you said ! You don't own that page ! 2A01:CB14:CEE:C600:6549:158:4FD0:BB29 (talk) 21:57, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I have not used any bad language or said anything disrespectful. If you don't have anything productive to say then please leave the talk page, this is not a forum. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Civil War actor returning in Ironheart

I heard an actor from Captain America: Civil War (don't remember his name) will be reprising his role in Ironheart as a MIT dean i think. If that's true, he is missing from this list. AxGRvS (talk) 17:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

He's an unnamed character. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:59, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

yes I know but... don't we have the commercial man and woman from WandaVision and the gods' avatars from Moon Knight on this list? AxGRvS (talk) 19:57, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmm you're right. If we added Rash, it should be as Dean of MIT. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:11, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Special Presentations

Similar to what was discussed at Talk:Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase Four#Films, television series... and specials?, I suggest the Werewolf by Night and The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special cast info be taken out of this page and moved to a new section at Marvel Studios Special Presentations. Or, as an alternative, if we want to keep them together, we could move this page to List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television actors (Marvel Studios) and the Marvel Television page to List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television actors (Marvel Television) (for consistency). Personally I'm fine with either way. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:17, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm fine including info at the MSSP page regardless, but I do think there's some reader value in having them remain at this article given they are more integrated into the other Phase media than the One-Shots or I Am Groot are. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:30, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Well, either one or the other needs to happen, because the article as it stands now is inaccurate/misleading. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Moving them out might be the better option, with appropriate links pointing readers to that new section here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101 and Facu-el Millo: Any other comments? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:50, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I support moving the Special Presentation cast table to that article, akin to the One-Shots, with relevant links provided. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm neutral on which change to make, I do agree that a change needs to be made though. —El Millo (talk) 20:36, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I've made the split. I know this was discussed recently, but we should update the cast list template to include a new "SP" tag, which would be for Special Presentations, and de-couple it from the "MS" tag as we're doing now. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:24, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I support the addition of an "SP" tag for the Special Presentations. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Seconded. By the way, whatever happened to the proposal to adjust the One-Shots tag to cover I Am Groot? InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:36, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

That was the discussion I think I was referring too. Nothing came of it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

I see El Millo has added the tag. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:04, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Phase Four year links

The links used for 2021 and 2022 in the actor table are 2021 in American television#Television shows and 2022 in American television#Television shows respectively. However none of the MCU series are mentioned on either page. Instead the articles link to separate pages for television show debuts: List of 2021 American television debuts and List of 2022 American television debuts. Wouldn't it be better to link to those in the table since they actually include the series and specials? Although it could be a bit of a problem for 2023 as shows returning would be on the original article equivalent, while debuts are separate. -- Zoo (talk) 06:01, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

I think those are accurate currently, and readers can further go to the debut lists should they choose. But we should get them to the YYYY in American television to start with. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:16, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Kahhori

Kahhori ought to be added as a character in the What If...? season 2 section. Wcdowchb (talk) 20:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

WP:BEBOLD and add it with a source. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)