Talk:Konstantinos Plevris

Citations from Plevris' Book

First of all, I want to clarify that I'm not "presenting facts from Plevris's point of view" as someone stated. I'm simply trying to ensure the article remains neutral. Nothing more. That said, there are some problems with the alleged citations from the book:

• Since this article is primarily about Plevris and not about "Jews: The Whole Truth" (or any of his other books), excerpts from his works should be kept to a minimum unless they demonstrate an important and relevant point. If we were to dedicate a paragraph of text for each one of his books, we'd have thousands of lines of texts. In this case, it seems that the alleged citations chosen are meant to make Plevris seem like a genocidal maniac more than anything else. The fact that one of the alleged citations is actually bolded, only reinforces this view.

• Plevris maintains that, "Of the 1,400 pages of my large book, the condemnation encompasses only several paragraphs, of which portions were extracted, with the result that another meaning was given to the words and truth is distorted due to the alteration of phrases".[1] This allegation, combined with the fact that Plevris has launched high-profile lawsuits for libel (and specifically for characterizations of him as a "Nazi" and "Fascist" and his book as "Nazistic and anti-Semitic"), means that we need to be careful when (alleged) excerpts are cited. For instance, one alleged excerpt reads that Plevris describes himself as a "nazi, fascist, racist, antidemocrat, antisemite". Considering that Plevris is suing individuals, newspapers, and organizations for exactly these characterizations against him, this casts serious doubts as to whether this was what he meant or what he even wrote. Common sense tells us that if Plevris is suing people because they call him a "Nazi" or "Fascist" that he would not write about himself in such a way.

Personally, I have not read "Jews: The Whole Truth" nor do I have the book is my possession to be able to consult it in order to verify the alleged excerpts or their context. If necessary, however, a copy can be easily found for such purposes. Until we are certain that these are indeed excerpts from the book, caution needs to be exercised for questionable "excerpts". As such, alleged excerpts that are in clear contradiction to facts should be removed or, at the very least, mention should be made that there is a dispute over whether or not these are actually Plevris' words. Critias 04:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

A quick reply. They said "Since this article is primarily about Plevris and not about "Jews: The Whole Truth" (or any of his other books) excerpts from his works should be kept to a minimum". Actually, no. The main reason why Plevris is famous is his anti-semitism and holocaust denial, so it makes perfect sense to quote him on that.

""I have not read "Jews: The Whole Truth"". I have read all 214 pages of this anti-Semitic libel. I suggest you refrain from comments on Plevris views until you have too.

"Considering that Plevris is suing individuals, newspapers, and organizations for exactly these characterizations against him" This is irrelevant. Every nazi troll will tell you "but I never said I'm a Nazi, I only said X".

It's also completely false and shows you have no idea about why the trial took place.

Plevris has written a book called "Antidemocrat" (his very first book, in 1965, I suggest you read it too before commenting), another one against homosexuals, a book against the Jews and he has praised on various occasions the SS, Goebbels and others. Of course he is a homophobe, an anti-Semite and a racist and he himself has openly admitted so for all these three. He is simply too smart to openly admit he is a Nazi and hides behind verbal games such as "Nazism is for Germans, fascism for Italians, I'm a Greek nationalist". Also, court cases and their results will not decide the content of wikipedia. Court cases are about the Greek law, wikipedia about substantiated knowledge. Greece666 (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

A lot of verbal contortionisms, only to reach the admission that you have not read the book in question. These are not "alleged" citations : not only have they been cited in a formal lawsuit (as well as a variety of other sources and media, spanning the whole political spectrum) but are they direct quotes from Plevris's book, replete with the corresponding pages. They are crucial to understanding the allegations pertinent to Plevris's indictment, so they very much belong in the article. The book is copyrighted, and we cannot scan the offending pages and place them in here without infringing copyright. By all means, feel free to purchase the book and see for yourself that the hate screeds quoted are very much factual, and not at all "alleged" (District Attorneys, mind you, do not indict persons based on book quotations they overheard in their local golfing clubs ; perhaps they do in Guadalajara). There is absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever to delete these quotes from the article. Porfyrios 22:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

If commonsense is a "verbal contortionism" to you, I don't know what to tell you. If the alleged quotes are legitimate, then there is no reason to get rid of them, of course. However, given that Plevris is suing Eleftherotypia and the other organizations on the grounds of libel, the "excerpts" are suspect. If somebody characterizes themselves as a "nazi, fascist, racist, antidemocrat, antisemite", that person doesn't launch lawsuits against people who call him those exact things -- especially when the person in question is a Supreme Court lawyer and knows the law well enough to recognize such a thing would be counterproductive and very costly to himself. It's great that you have trust in the Greek judicial system but the fact remains that sometimes District Attorneys make mistakes or are wrong (for a number of possible reasons); that's why they sometimes lose cases. Since Plevris' trial has not even begun yet, I feel it is a bit premature to find him guilty already. Instead of assuming the worst, it'd be more productive to exercise neutrality until the matter can be settled. In this regard, I'll find a copy of the book as soon as I can to verify or refute the alleged statements. Until then, it'd be best if there was mention of the fact that the alleged quotations are contested. Critias 23:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I have read the book and it is with great disgust that I have to confirm that Plevris not only maintains all those vomit-inducing racist comments cited, but he also bashes Greece's anti-racist law (972/1979), a law that he claimed before a court of law that he did not know existed, therefore lying off his teeth in court. When I get more time on my hands, I'm going to post (and translate) more and more of this racist, libelous piece of work. Enough with the sockpuppets of the Popular Orthodox Rally. Elp gr (talk) 19:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I own the book and have read it. Plevris maintains the following: He is not interested in Jewish people as a nation or race de facto. In fact he profiles a Greek Jew 2nd World War army commander as an example of a Greek Jewish hero who deserves the highest honors. (Major Frizis) His interest lies in the Zionist movement and its supporters (Jews or not)as well as in the elements that are found in traditional Jewish culture that encourage racism, domination, subversion, violence and aggression against non-Jews (numerous citations from Talmud encouraging aggression, murder, rape, theft and deceipt towards Christians). He supports that, by definition, he is anti-Nazi considering that he is a Greek Nationalist and Greece fought the Nazis and paid a steep price (500,000 killed, missing in action)during the 2nd World War. His resentment of Judea, according to the book, stems from the actions of organized Zionist Jewry throughout history, specifically in its influence in Greek and European history. Plevris sites historical references and statistics from the era of the Ottoman occupation of Greece that reflect a strong alignment of organized Jewry with the Ottoman occupier including support for the break up of the northern part of Greece and its transfer to Greece's norhern Slavic neighbours. He makes it clear that rounding up people in concentration camps is inhuman.

He encourages the reader to merely consider his arguments and facts with an austere critical attitude bound by facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.236.88 (talk) 05:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Blah, blah, blah. The neo-Nazi trolls of LA.O.S. came to rescue a self-confessed (in various interviews) and proven in court (see THIS) neo-fascist, "deep state" agent, ultra-right wing proponent and even collaborator of several fascist groups including the Italian "Ordine Nuovo".Elp gr (talk) 19:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Claims of anti-Plevris (and anti-nazi) propaganda

Well, I finally got a hold of the book (well, actually I did that quite a while ago but I haven't bothered with Wikipedia in a while -- not to mention that investigating a 1,397 page book takes time) "The Jews: The Whole Truth" (Οι Εβραίοι - Όλη Η Αλήθεια, εκδοσεις Ήλεκτρον, 2006) in the first publication. I examined the pages cited to make it look like Plevris was a "genocidal maniac" and it turns out that everything I stated was correct: excerpts were completely taken out of context and excerpts by long-dead individuals were intentionally attributed to Plevris by those ideologically opposed to Plevris (I mean in the real world but the same happened here on Wikipedia, too). I will include this information when I edit the entry on Plevris.

Given these facts, I highly recommend we entirely clean-up the sections regarding the book "Jews: The Whole Truth" by: a) removing all propagandistic references, b) creating a small summary of events (like the other lawsuit sections), and c) refrain from including inflammatory remarks.

After all, this event is a very small chapter in the life of Konstantinos Plevris so why does it take up so much space? There are more significant events in his life that are far more deserving of such length. On that note, why would anyone remove the information on his "Education and academic background"? He is an author and intellectual (whether one fully agrees with him, partially agrees/partially disagrees with him, fully disagrees with him, or doesn't know his social, historical, and political views to able to reach such a conclusion) so this is extremely important. Also, Plevris is not a right-winger, let alone part of the "far-right" (which is actually a non-neutral and pejorative term). His views have always been radical-revolutionary nationalist. If you are basing your "opinion" of his ideological views on the same sources that intentionally took him out of context, I highly suggest that you do some independent study on him and you'll quickly notice that he opposes both the left and right and his views fall outside of the right-left political spectrum.

Anyway, if someone really wants me to check up on a certain page that supposedly says "so-and-so" I can do it but I cannot spend all of my time translating passages from a huge tome so please limit the pages (and also don't expect my translations to happen overnight). Luckily, there are only a few "controversial" passages (as far as I can tell) and I went over most of those allegations in my edit. Also, as one of the posts here shows, I am not the only one who has consulted this book so I hope others will come out so that all doubt is removed. That said, if you don't believe my translations, please go to a library in Greece, request the book, and look it up for yourselves. (Believe me, it would save us all a lot of time if someone had done this years ago.) Either that or buy or borrow a copy. My contributions speak for themselves, however, so no one should feel suspect of my "motives" or neutrality (but, given the subject matter, anything that isn't anti-Plevris is often regarded as not being neutral by some individuals). That said, if I've missed anything in my translations, please let me know, of course. Hopefully, we will now finally begin to "resolve" the anti-Plevris allegations.

By the way, some of the original links (from more than one source, I believe) don't work anymore (as years have passed) or point to the wrong URL so I've put up the date when they did work (as is common to do on Wikipedia). In addition, Internet Archive can probably be used to view them. Critias (talk) 09:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Is THIS court verdict "anti-Plevris propaganda"? Time to clean up the whole entry from the neo-Nazi trolls that came to save Plevris' reputation... BTW, the verdict quoted in the article accepts that it is PROVEN that Plevris is a fascist, a collaborator of various secret services INCLUDING the CIA, a liaison (at least) with various Italian and European neo-fascist terrorist groups and quite proud of it. Perhaps Plevris should also tell us what his father did during the Axis Occupation of Greece...Elp gr (talk) 19:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Από πότε ρε παιδιά ο ΙΟΣ της Ελευθεροτυπίας είναι αξιόπιστη πηγή; Όχι ότι ο Πλεύρης είναι καμμία Αρσακειάδα αλλά να μην τρελαθούμε κιόλας! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.126.122 (talk) 10:58, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Since the time that no evidence has ever proven them to be unreliable. Unlike the neo-nazi you favor.Elp gr (talk) 07:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

list of books of k. plevris

TRhe book , in the list, "Ας μιλήσουμε για την ψωλ...ρα μάνα μου", is don't exist.K.plevris never wrote such a book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.129.183.12 (talk) 16:42, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

He should have. Elp gr (talk) 19:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Honorary professor at the Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara?

Is there ANY proof of that? I've searched this university's website time and again, but I found no reference to Plevris' name AT ALL. Nada. Zip. Nothing. And universities have a tendency to LIST their honorary professors... If there's proof of him actually BEING an honorary professor at ANY university, I want to see it. Otherwise, it has no place in Wikipedia; and if Plevris can't prove his claim, I guess I can't say he's telling the truth. Elp gr (talk) 00:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Στην Ελλάδα ο καθένας είναι ότι δηλώσει. Αν αμφιβάλλεις για κάτι δεν έχεις παρά να του στείλεις ένα mail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.126.122 (talk) 10:55, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

That's not the way science works. No one's word is taken at face value, whether you like it or not. When one claims to be a professor (honorary or regular), his/her status must be verifiable. And Wikipedia, whether you Greek nationalists like it or not, demands verifiability. Plevris claims to be a historian. Where are his scientific credentials then? Any publications? Any BibTeX entries? Any entries in Google Scholar? Anything in CiteseerX? In ScienceDirect? In certified bibliography resources for History and Archaeology? Show them. Plevris and his fanboys claim he's a scientist. Wikipedia and its community demands proof. If you don't like this policy, go troll elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.66.186.190 (talk) 15:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Ios Link

It was inccorectly linking to greek island Ios but article means a newspaper column —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.222.102 (talk) 23:14, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

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Δικηγόρος παρ' Αρείῳ Πάγῳ

As far as I know, the aforementioned title does not imply one works or worked for the Greek Supreme Court. It only means that the lawyer is entitled in bringing cases before this Supreme Court. Therefore, if the phrase is a Greek attorney of law of the Greek Supreme Court means—I'm not a native English speaker—that Plevris works or worked for the Supreme Court then it is incorrect and should be changed to something like is a Supreme Court lawyer. — Orgyn (talk) 15:33, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Neo-nazi Sources

See [2], this one which calls him a self-professed new-nazi, [3] and more. Doug Weller talk 20:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Google books doesn't show the text for the page you link (third link). Concerning the first, it is an opinion piece on a Jewish news website (Jewish Telegraphic Agency). The second also appears to be an opinion piece (The Blog) on Huffington post. More importantly nowhere is it explained why Plevris could be a neo-Nazi. I hardly see how these can be considered as sources… — Orgyn (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

The first one is not an opinion piece, it's a news report. Who cares that the website is Jewish, that's irrelevant. The 2nd site isn't a reliable source as it is a blog, but we need to see if it's correct that he's a self-professed neo-Nazi. The book seems to meet our criteria as a source - see our article on the publisher[4] and the page says "der beider Formationen in nichts nach. In den von Karatzaferis (Spitzname: »Karatzafiihrcr«) kontrollicrtcn Fcrnschkanalcn wird Werbung gemacht fur den bekenncndcn Nconazi Kostas Plevris und seine antisemitischen Veroffentlichungen." which means ". In the channels controlled by Karatzaferis (nickname: "Karatzafiihrcr") advertisements are made for the well-known Neonazi Kostas Plevris and his anti-Semitic publications." Of course Karatzaferis is another anti-Semite. Also this. So he's been described as a neo-Nazi. I'll start a new thread about his being fascist, which isn't disputable. Doug Weller talk 11:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Since neo-Nazi trolls keep messing up this article. Plevris is a fascist and a neo-Nazi. He is a homophobe, an anti-Semite, he has praised the SS and Hitler on various occasions, he used repeatedly Nazi symbols and like Dr Goebbels, whom he openly admires, he spreads lies on every possible occasion. One blatant example is his supposed PhD and his professorship at the University of Guadalajara. Plevris has also claimed that there is no Indo-European language and that Greeks invented their alphabet. If I had to make a list with all his lies and distortions I would need pages upon pages.

Long story short, I speak Greek and have PDFs of Plevris' books, next time a troll denies his hero is a fascist, PM me to provide you with a full quotation.Greece666 (talk) 15:18, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

For the next time a troll denies Plevris is a Nazi, p. 75 of his 1965 book Αντιδημοκράτης. "National Socialism as a policy is the most exact expression of realism because it has the will and the courage to stand facing the truth."

Self-declared fascist

here he is quoted as saying " "though I like you, you have started to annoy me and you will feel what fascism means, because as you know I have declared that I am a fascist". In an interview he said "I am a fascist though I do not have a swastika in my hand."[5][6][7] which seems to relate to his opposition to the methods of Golden Dawn. His article on the Greek Wikipedia, which oddly isn't linked to this one, states it also. Doug Weller talk 12:00, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

From the Greek article, another conviction

"On October 31, 2011, he was convicted of racketeering under the anti-racist law and sentenced to six months imprisonment with a three-year suspension on the grounds of insulting Andreja Gilbert (a member of the Greek Pride of the Helsinki Monitor , representative of Athens Pride ) on July 16, 2008. In particular, Plevris was convicted because, referring to Andrea Gilbert, she described her as an "antisocial element" and "blatantly representing women's homosexuals, that is to say, a psychoanalysis of a perverse opou, which he does not respect the feminine nature not respects and truth".[8][9][10] Doug Weller talk 13:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Greek wikipedia article

It is significantly richer, in particular the part about his political activities, including the Junta.

https://el.wiki.x.io/wiki/%CE%9A%CF%89%CE%BD%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%A0%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%B7%CF%82#%CE%A0%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE_%CE%B4%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%83%CE%B7 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greece666 (talk • contribs) 14:14, 15 August 2019 (UTC)