Elp gr

Welcome!

Hello Elp gr, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Ricky Martin

I think that you both have shown a tendency towards incivility and divisiveness. I urge you to set a good example. -Willmcw 09:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Sanoinsc etc

Regarding the Microkini entry: Sanoinsc has been known on Yahoo for disrespecting the email delivery settings of his groups' members (he owns "Microkini Enthusiasts" and "Microkinists"), changing them to whatever he likes without notice and despite repeated complaints. Also, he is known for annoying the female members of his groups (via IM, email or public group messages) to post their photos. He removed the links to two neutral and unbiased (i.e. NOT affiliated to any manufacturer and NOT dedicated to any manufacturer's promotion) microkini- and thong-related communities and replaced them with promotional groups (the one for Dore and the other one for Wicked Weasel). Can this be classified as a mild case of vandalism? Elp gr 18:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. That is why I reverted the entry. However, there is not much else to do at the moment, unless it becomes major.And, unfortunately, I know nothing about mikrokinist communities. So If I was mistaken, please do not hesitate to correct me (and anybody else) after dropping an entry to the discussion page. Thanks for being here and contributing.

P.S. BTW, I am really confused, 147.27.2.135 and yourself seems likely to be same to me. Aaaargh, too much work, not enough sleep :) Thanks again... --Emre D. 19:52, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's my office IP. Firefox crashed on me, I visited the Microkini entry on Wiki again and I went on to post that comment in the discussion page for that entry, but I was no longer logged in. Elp gr 20:02, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I have read your messages about Microkiniand Angela Devi,.However, I was away and infact simply I didn't login to write a message. First things first, I am not an admin or mod. I just tried to keep an open mind about things and help solve the debates. As far as I can see, there is still a clash between you and Sanoinsc, which I still think does not concur with Wikipedia Policies. My main concern is providing users with reliable articles with no personal point of view and I can clearly say that neither of you will back-off and calm down.

Anyway, you, he and anyone else can contribute to wikipedia by editing. And, I would be happy if the article remains with 4 board links or more useful links are provided; as long as they obey Wikipedia:Policies.

Regarding the article about Angela Devi, I would wait a few weeks for the dust to clear, just as already recommended by User:Will Beback. Mentioning the rumours about her sad death should be enough for now, till the rumours are verified.

Still, thanks for all your contributions. Sorry, I couldn't be of any help right now but I lack the necessary time to contribute right now. Hope, things will change soon. Keep up the good work. --Emre D. 02:46, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: vandalism in progress report

Hello Elp gr. You recently filed a vandalism in progress report concerning 68.5.145.178, who has not acted in bad faith insofar as I can tell. Please discuss the edits with the editor in question per the dispute resolution process. The report has been moved to the archives. Thank you. // Pathoschild (_admin / ^talk) 11:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Lancia Beta - Legacy section

You know perfectly well that I am not vandalising this article. The request for further citations has been alive since 2008 and still nothing has happened to this section. Wikipedia is not a place for point of view or original research. Just because there was a problem relating to rust in lancia betas in the uk in the 1970s is not sufficient reason to leave this section in the article. Clearly you do not understand what the problems is, so I have reproduced the article below with my annotations in bold, in the hope that you will finally see just what a piece of rubbish it is.

I really think that you should have started by communicating with me, rather than reporting vandalism. If anything leaving this kind of nonsense in wikipedia is much more like vandalism. I certainly don't come to wikipedia to read a rehash of some old points of view and anecdotes dredged up from nowhere in particular. Give me the verifiable facts and not a penny more.

Oh and in case you are wondering - I did follow this story in great detail as it was happening - in the Popular press, on the television, in the quality press, in the motoring press and from within the motor trade. But my Opinion on what happened is not relevant - it merely aids me in spotting what is just another's point of view.

The Beta was very well received by the motoring press and public when launched[6] -This citation is not of sufficient quality. A decent citation is required here.

The various models - which?

were praised - by whom?

for their performance and their good handling and roadholding. They were widely regarded - by whom?

as a "driver's car" with plenty of character. - Point of view

The Beta was competitively - relative term implies a point of view

priced in export markets - which ones

due to a weak Italian currency at that time, - citation need

and managed to become the highest ever selling Lancia model up to that point. - Citation needed, and what point exactly?

Unfortunately – inapproptiate style wikipedia should maintain neutrality

a combination of poor quality steel - citation needed

allegedly Russian steel supplied to Fiat in return for building the Lada factory[7], - again poor quaility citation a claim that has never been proven, - we just can't know either way

but is still widely circulated; - by whom? Wikipedia?

it is far more likely – says who?

that the problems with the metal - if indeed there were any problems (also POV)

itself had more to do with the prolonged strikes – citation needed and an assumption of cause and effect

that plagued Italy at that time – which we do not know to be true or false

than with the metal's origin), - which we do not know and is probably unknowable

poor rust prevention techniques – citation needed

(typical of almost all automobile manufacturers in the 1970s), - says who!

and inadequate water drainage channels '– again says who? Maybe true maybe not.

led to the Beta gaining a reputation for being rust-prone, - we need a citation for this reputation as a reputation is something that may exist in the collective mind. It may just exist in the odd individual. Impossible to know precisely which factor gave rise to this reputation

particularly the 1st Series vehicles (built from 1972–75). - says who?

The corrosion problems could be structural; - says who?

for instance where the subframe carrying the engine and gearbox was bolted to the underside of the car. - SAYS WHO?

The box section to which the rear of the subframe was mounted could corrode badly causing the subframe to become loose. - you get the idea – this is all someone's opinion, a report of an opinion or original research. The truth is irrelevant – what is verifiable is relevant.

Although tales – what tales? Published where? The word tales is also problematic as it implies value

of subframes dropping out – citation needed

of vehicles were simply not true, - according to whom?

a vehicle with a loose subframe would fail a technical inspection. - it might, it might not

In actuality, - whose actuality? Wikipedia is not about “actuality”!

the problem affected almost exclusively 1st Series saloon models – says who? (certainly does not concur with my memory – even though it is not relevant)

and not the Coupé, HPE, - (aren't we forgetting the Lancia Beta Coupe & HPE HiFi models from the UK)?

Spider or Montecarlo versions. - and whose opinion is this one?

In the UK (Lancia's largest export market at the time[citation needed]) the company listened to the complaints from its dealers and customers – did it? How do we know what the company did or didn't listen to? And which company? The manufacturer or the importer?

and commenced a campaign to buy back vehicles affected by the subframe problem. - this needs a citation

Some of these vehicles were 6 years old or older and belonged to 2nd or 3rd owners. -citation needed

Customers were invited to present their cars to a Lancia dealer for an inspection. -citation needed

If their vehicle was affected by the subframe problem, the customer was offered a part exchange deal to buy another Lancia or Fiat car. - citation needed

The cars that failed the inspection were scrapped. - citation needed

Sadly - inappropriate style for wikipedia – needs to be neutral.

for Lancia, on 9 April 1980 the Daily Mirror and certain TV programmes such as That's Life! got wind of what Lancia was already doing to help its customers and embarked on a campaign to exaggerate the issue and humiliate the manufacturer - how can we possibly know what the intentions of these two entities were?

There were false claims – false according to whom?

that the problem persisted in later cars by showing photographs of scrapped 1st Series saloons, referring to them as being newer than five and six years old. - citation needed

Other contemporary manufacturers (British, French, Japanese and German) whose cars also suffered from corrosion were not treated as harshly. - citation needed

This was possibly – and also possibly not

because Lancia was seen as a luxury car brand at that time and consequently expectations were high[8][9][10]. - again dubious citations and distinctly POV

Ironically, - inappropriate style

Lancia had already introduced one year previously a 6-year anti-corrosion warranty – citation needed

an automotive first in the UK. - according to whom?

Whilst later Betas (2nd Series cars) had reinforced subframe mounting points – citation needed

and post-1979 cars were better protected from the elements, - citation needed

these issues damaged the whole marque's sales success – according to whom?

on most export markets. - which markets? and according to whom?

However, thanks to its strong driver appeal, - according to whom?

the Beta still enjoys a dedicated following today. - does it? How do we know that it enjoys any following?

Surviving examples make an interesting classic car choice for the enthusiast. - this is a point of view or buying advice – neither of which has a place in wikipedia.

Myredroom (talk) 16:20, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

If you were acting in good faith, you would improve the section by looking at the sources (which you clearly didn't), by researching the matter more (which you didn't), by communicating with the authors (which you did NOT). You just went on a deleting rampage, which constitutes disruptive editing. Elp gr (talk) 23:57, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ellinon Egersis

The article Ellinon Egersis has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

long unreferenced stub of non-notable television show, with no significant secondary coverage

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sadads (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

BLPN - Takis Fotopoulos

• - Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Takis_Fotopoulos

Hi - theres a report about this BLP at the noticeboard. Please join in the discussion and rather than replacing your disputed addition please wait for consensus to resolve this dispute, thanks - Youreallycan 01:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

If only it was that easy... Consensus requires good faith - Let me point you to this[1] announcement by the "Inclusive Democracy" movement (which is basically controlled by Takis Fotopoulos). Rather insulting towards Wikipedia, don't you think? Also, since they don't like Wikipedia, why do they keep trying to dictate what is written about their leader here, especially when it's taken right off his own website? Elp gr (talk) 03:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you sound quite involved in this and perhaps need to take a step back. When the subjects of our articles complain about falsehoods in their article we don't blame them, we investigate and edit from an uninvolved NPOV manner. Youreallycan 11:06, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, the faction of Fotopoulos takes advantage of the language barrier. In the Inclusive Democracy's Greek website, Takis Fotopoulos and his associates have launched a smear campaign against the Free Software movement, against Democracy Now!, against The Nation, as well as against several left-leaning Greek blogs simply because they do not agree with them 100%. The accusations? "They are pro-zionist". "They are instruments of the transnational elite". "They are systemic agents". "They are lackeys of the Israeli Embassy". I'm talking about a long list of (very long) announcements, filled with libel and threats against pretty much everyone. And don't forget what I mentioned earlier that they had written against Wikipedia. As a Wikipedian, this old announcement of their insults me personally. If they can't accept the way Wikipedia rolls, why are they still here, especially after they made such a dramatic announcement saying they're withdrawing? Not to mention the edit war they have started... Elp gr (talk) 11:16, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

We don't respond to subjects complains with force. As for your hurt feelings, I suggest you take the article off your watchlist. Youreallycan 11:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC).

Actually, it was Fotopoulos who has been engaged in smear campaigns against numerous people in Greece (and abroad). Too bad he makes full use of the fact that his rants are only in Greek. But I'll make sure they get translated, even though they're ridiculously long. Elp gr (talk) 16:09, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, please be aware your comments here reflects a person has a personal conflict in regard to this living person and I would request you not to continue to edit the BLP but rather to post your editing suggestions to the talkpage for discussion and consensus to arise about them - Youreallycan 16:17, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

January 2012

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Takis Fotopoulos. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Aegean cat for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Aegean cat is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aegean cat until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. TKK ^{bark !} 21:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)