Talk:Kim Kitsuragi

Thumbnail Picture - Wrong Jacket

The file "File:Kim Kitsuragi.png" pictures Kim Kitsuragi in his alternative "Black Jacket" outfit, which can only be unlocked after beating the game on Hardcore Mode. Typically, he wears an orange bomber jacket, not a black one. It can be seen in the Fandom wiki's article (https://discoelysium.fandom.com/wiki/Kim_Kitsuragi), and it is captioned "Standard". I think the file should be replaced with the Standard appearance because that is the portrait the average player is most likely to see throughout the game and is the one you are first acquainted with. I'm not personally familiar with Wikipedia image uploads, so I'm leasing this out to anyone who's reading. Drunk Experiter (talk) 07:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

...Huh. I didn't even notice, I thought it was just a stylistic image. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 13:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Making a note of sources

List of references from early 2024
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
(Feature: why-kim-kitsuragi-is-disco-elysiums-breakout-star) [1] (Feature: kim-kitsuragi-is-a-fantastic-example-of-a-mixed-asian-character-and-why-it-matters) [2] (Feature (international): disyco-elysiums-kim-kitsuragi) [3] (Collage Mode: disco-elysium-the-final-cut-receives-free-collage-mode-available-for-consoles-in-the-coming-days) [4] (Analysis: Games and Narrative: Theory and Practice) [5] (Analysis: disco-elysium-queerbaiting-is-just-a-front-for-corporate-greed) [6] (Analysis: disco-elysium-was-too-afraid-of-sincerity-to-be-revolutionary) [7] (Analysis: disco-elysium-is-a-landmark-rpg-about-the-politics-of-our-broken-world) [8] (Analysis: great-moments-in-pc-gaming-performing-an-autopsy-in-disco-elysium [9]) (Analysis: playing-a-rubbish-cop-in-disco-elysium-is-better-than-any-rpg-power-fantasy)[10] (Analysis: disco-elysium-puts-a-full-party-of-npc-companions-in-your-head) [11] (Analysis: disco-elysium-final-cut-review-a-walk-naked-through-the-pale) [12] (Analysis: its-okay-to-fail-in-disco-elysium) [13] (Superlative: disco-elysium-review-drunk-on-ambrosia) [14] (Superlative: shacknews-best-pc-game-of-2019-disco-elysium) [15] (Superlative: the-voice-acting-in-disco-elysium-the-final-cut-makes-the-best-rpg-on-pc-even-better/) [16] Situational (Analysis) [17] (Two Short Paragraphs) [18] (Two Short Paragraphs) [19] (Several Paragraphs) [20] (A Full Section) [21] (Fan Feature) [22] (One Short Paragrarph) [23] (One Paragraph) [24] (One Paragraph) [25] (One Paragraph) [26] (Voice Actor) [27] (Voice Acting) [28] (A Few Mentions) [29] (A Few Mentions) [30] (A Few Mentions) [31] (A Mention) [32] (Paywall) [33] (Merchandise) [34] (Merchandise) [35] (Feature / Questionable) [36] (Feature / Situational) [37] Shorter "... an impossible-not-to-love teammate, Kim Kitsuragi..." [38] "Kim is the one thing that keeps the investigation from stalling out completely, and his deadpan responses to your utter failure are some of the highlights of the game." [39] "One of my favorite interactions was to tell every new person I met “I am the law,” which made Kim repeatedly (in an increasingly annoyed tone) implore me to not keep saying this, but I will never stop." [40] "... serves as a compelling contrast to a protagonist constantly struggling to get his shit together, building an unbreakable bond of kindness that persists throughout the story." [41] "... Plus, getting to hear Kim Kitsuragi talk more is always excellent." [42] "... my absolute favorite person Lt. Kim Kitsuragi" [43] "... All I know is that everyone's real in love with this Kim Kitsuragi lad" [44] "... Kim Kitsuragi, the best human being ever created" [45] (Award nomination by Adventure Gamers) [46] "... If I had to give a gold star to any game on this list for writing alone, it’d be this one. Kim Kitsuragi, marry me." [47] Scholarly What is the post-game depression? A narrative inquiry [48] THE MIRACLE ANIMAL AND THE PALE INSIDE: EXISTENTIAL THOUGHT IN DISCO ELYSIUM [49] ‘Detective — what were you hoping to accomplish?’: Benign Violation as Means of Moral Detection in Disco Elysium [50] Shippers and Kinnies: Re-conceptualizing Parasocial Relationships with Fictional Characters in Contemporary Fandom [51] DO HOBOCOPS DREAM OF THE RULE OF LAW? [52] Breaking immersion: A theoretical framework of alienated play to facilitate critical reflection on interactive media [53] Play Don't Show—Video Game Companions [54] Locked [55] [56] [57] [58]

A first crack at pulling up sources. Some are already in this article. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Notability anyone?

Look, I'm a Kim fan as much as the next guy, but I am a little bewildered at the fact that he has a Wikipedia page—especially one so detailed—when no other character from the game does, not even its main character. A statement about his ethnicity being based "primarily [on] Japan and France respectively" also 1000% needs a source, as do some other things on the page. Anyone know how I can flag either/both of these issues? TariffedSparrow (talk) 16:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The reason he's got an article is because the sourcing exists for him. There might be more for the cast of the game, but I'm not too familiar with this franchise, so I can't speak for certain on that. Either way, if you need to tag things as needing sources, you can use the citation needed note to put down things that need improvement. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 17:18, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@TariffedSparrow: The reason Kim has an article and Harry doesn't is because, quite frankly, it's more work to find info on Harry. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

@Cukie Gherkin right, which I get, but I think Kim's existing and being this extensive when no other character within the franchise has its own page is somewhat ridiculous. It's generally considered standard for only extremely significant video game characters—Sonic, Phoenix Wright, Mario, etc—to have distinct Wikipedia pages, and generally only from franchises where there are a lot of adaptations. I love Kim as much as the next guy but notability is an issue and this article is frankly overlong in several places if it's even justified to begin with TariffedSparrow (talk) 17:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

That isn't how the notability policy works on Wikipedia though. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Per above, the only overly long sections are Reception and Conception/design, which is what an article wants since it tackles the subject from a real world angle. Franchises and characters can have lots of coverage as well, even if they aren't immediately well-known. The rules you describe aren't policy, unfortunately. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 22:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Fair. Just seems a little weird to me but I haven't edited regularly on Wikipedia much TariffedSparrow (talk) 19:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Not a poll or consensus seeking thing here but yeah, agreed it's a bit fancrufty Plebiano (talk) 18:05, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

there is no actual proof than Kim Kitsuragi is gay.

In the most referenced reason why Kim's gay is this voice line : "[Are *you* part of the homo-sexual underground?] You didn't stop at all, did you? You're just obsessing about *other people's* sexuality now. [Yeah, but......] but am I? I'll spare you another *20 hour mind-project* -- yes, I am. Now let's get back to work." But he didn't say he was gay, he said that he was part of 'the homo-sexual underground'. I think that 'the homo-sexual underground' I personnally have nothing against people's sexuality, but i'm tired of LGBT community making is propaganda everywhere Kim can be gay, there is just no enough data to 100% confirm that. 2A01:E34:EC1F:1730:B8D6:E9F3:E785:5A28 (talk) 20:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but if I may recommend something, you would benefit from spending less time being outraged about bogeymen and more time playing the games you're editing articles about. From the solution text of the homo-sexual underground thought: "Maybe you should *stop* obsessing about your own -- and other people's -- sexuality?" The thought about the "homo-sexual underground" is about sexuality, not an organization. The bare minimum of media literacy is all that is required to understand that.

This whole exchange feels pointless, because I can't help but question whether you're being serious, because the very premise of your argument is beyond absurd. Among the most out-of-pocket arguments I've seen made on Wikipedia. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:09, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

personal offense ? you must be an very healthy guy behind your little screen 2A01:E34:EC1F:1730:B8D6:E9F3:E785:5A28 (talk) 20:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Dawg, you're jumping through hoops to justify an interpretation of Kim saying "I'm gay" to mean "I'm not gay." You made the argument that Kim, one of the most humorless characters in all of Disco Elysium, might have been joking. What else am I to take from such desperate arguments? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Seeing this WP:EDITWAR now. Wikipedia strongly discourages editors from continuing to push an edit after it has been reverted. Particularly when you're removing information sourced to reliable sources. Trying to twist the word "yes" to mean "no" is at least WP:OR, if not WP:NPOV. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

There is.. literally a point in the game where he says "--yes, I am." in response to being asked if he is apart of the LGBTQ community. This is then followed by a passive check that says "That's the truth, sire." from Drama. Out of everything that occurs in this game, homosexuality is one of the least absurd. It's completely plausible. The official Disco Elysium Twitter account has also posted tweets discussing romantic actions between the two characters, as seen below--They also frequently retweet fan-art of the male characters kissing.

https://x.com/discoelysium/status/1625487566228307972 [Image of Harry and Kim kissing in Plaisance's bookstore.]

https://x.com/discoelysium/status/1528737516135714816 [Tweet that reads: 'Somewhere in the multiverse, Harry and Kim kiss.']

Yes, Kim is gay. There is no disputing it. And there's nothing wrong with it, either. DISCOISNOTDEAD (talk) 05:05, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

It's incredibly wild to watch someone say they don't have a problem with gay people while saying that Kim saying he's gay doesn't make him gay. One of the most blatant examples of people whose issue with "woke" media is that kinds of people they don't like are in them. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 05:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of how anyone feels about a particular viewpoint, some articles just attract POV-pushers and original research. The red flag is removing reliable sources, or making novel interpretations of primary sources. This article may need long-term protection from IP editors if this keeps happening. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Final Cut date wrong

In the first paragraph of "Appearance" it states that the remastered Final Cut was released in 2012, which is obviously incorrect, because that would mean the remaster released seven years before the game was even released.

I can't edit because the article is semi-protected, so if someone could rectify this, that'd be baller! Thanks! Corvidoccult (talk) 15:44, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems to have been fixed. Nervelita :3🏳️‍⚧️ (talk) 08:08, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Also calling into question the notability

Hello,

I'm referring to WP:NVGC, and the coverage in this doesn't seem as substantial as necessary, and while WP:NVGC does state they're not necessarily issues, the listicle is pretty trivial. I haven't read through every entry, but some notes:

• Phenixx Gaming doesn't seem like a major source.
• Kitsuragi has a single mention in the Destructoid article.
• The gamingbolt article has trivial mentions of him.
• The Kotaku one is just a review of a merchandise.
• NME article is a trivial mention of Kitsuragi.

Does anyone want to weigh in? What's the best way to flag this for assessment of its notability? Plebiano (talk) 18:36, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Why are you questioning the article's notability? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Because I'm not entirely sold on Kitsuragi's level of notability warrants an article. Plebiano (talk) 19:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

[59] [60] [61] [62] - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 19:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough I suppose, albeit still uncertain pending my understanding of how similar articles are dealt with.

One additional thing I have considered is undue weight and/or niche interest, I'd be interested in proceeding with revision. I'll be on later. Plebiano (talk) 01:08, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Undue weight isn't really something we can determine. How much weight is given to this article is determined by how much weight the sources deem appropriate. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:56, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

The article is currently up for "good article" nomination and will be undergoing review and revision as part of that process. As of now, everything is sourced, and most sources are only used once, so I think it complies with WP:UNDUE. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:30, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2024

Please change Harry DuBois to either Harrier Du Bois or Harry Du Bois (without the space is incorrect spelling of his name) - he is referred to as Harrier "Harry" Du Bois as referred to in the Disco Elysium wikipage for reference! 934dream (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done FifthFive (talk) 22:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kim Kitsuragi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 19:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) 21:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Image review

• File:Kim Kitsuragi.png - Everything looks good.
• File:Robert Kurvitz in 2020.jpg - No EXIF data and uploaded by an editor with very few edits, which is suspicious. That being said, the quality is low enough that I doubt it is being reused from another source.
• Not a GA criterion, but please consider if you plan on going to FAC: ALT text would help non-sighted readers better understand the article (WP:ALT)

Prose review

• On the other hand, Lena Aeschbach describes how annoying Kitsuragi achieves a Brechtian distancing effect between the player and the protagonist, offering an alternative to player characters designed for immersion. - You've introduced everyone, so who is lena?
• Dmitry King had high praise for Kitsuragi's portrayal of the queer experience, including his subtle reactions to other queer characters in the game. - Same
• I've made some edits. Please review

Source review

• Not a GA criterion, but please consider if you plan on going to FAC: source titles should be consistent in their use of capitalization (compare refs 4 and 6, for example)
• Not a GA criterion, but please consider if you plan on going to FAC: archiving internet-based sources will help prevent link rot; not all items are archived
• Refs 22 and 24 appear to be duplicates.
• Earwig and source checks to follow. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Review based off this revision.

• Earwig gives 42.9%, but the positives are all properly attributed quotes.
• [27] (all letters). French Stranding is dead. The article is available on the Wayback Machine here.
• [2]b - Source uses "unflappable", which definitely supports calm/stoic.
• [2]e - Supports that ZA/UM created the game. A couple things, like Estonian and 2019, don't show up in the source, but I wouldn't consider either to require a reference under WP:V
• [6]b - Supports claim
• [12] - Supports claim
• [26] - Supports claim
• [44] - Supports claim (and interesting that Jenny Levue won)

Conclusion

• This article is excellent, and it's a shame that it has sat here for so long. I expect this to have an easy time at FAC if you're interested. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
• Spotcheck done. All good. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:32, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the review! I looked over your edits and they were universally helpful. Did you fix the duplicate refs? I can't seem to find them, but maybe my eyes are just tired. In the meantime, I added alt text to the images, and added more context about Lena Aeschbach and Dmitry King. Let me know if there's anything else I should do. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:29, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Hi Shooterwalker, it appears that RFNirmala dealt with the duplicate ref with this edit and added the archive to the French interview. Everything else looks good. Happy to promote to GA! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium was celebrated as one of the best video game characters of 2019?

• Source: See Accolades section

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Inauguration of Lai Ching-te

Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.

Shooterwalker (talk) 19:33, 11 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment I have stacked a bunch of DYK assists in the summer. But if it's in doubt I can pick up another. I'm also open to suggestions on the DYK ALT, for anything that might be interesting to an average reader who might not be deeply familiar with video games. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• @Shooterwalker: Date, size, QPQ, GA status, hook, all fine. I'd suggest adding the term queer to the hook - it could make the hook more interesting. Ping me if this is done for a re-tick of an ALT1. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

  How about:

  ALT1 ... that Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium is celebrated as one of the queer video game characters, and best game characters of 2019?

  Hoping that works. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)