Talk:Justo Takayama

Some questions

• 300 or 3,000? He left Japan with 300 Japanese Christians. Presumably they were settled at the Paco area. Which is why it was called the Yellow Plaza, but were there 300 or 3000 Japanese there?
• If he was the first Daimyo to be buried in Philippine soil, who was the 2nd? or 3rd? Or he is the only daimyo to be buried in Philippine soil? --Bentong Isles (talk) 23:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

About the 300 or 3,000: It's possible that he left Japan with 300, but that there were other Japanese who came there at other times, for a total of 3,000. But, yes, perhaps that should be clarified. Ifdef (talk) 14:50, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Name

Neben seinem Familiennamen Takayama (高山) war sein echter Vorname Tomonaga (友祥), Nagafusa (長房), Shigetomo (重友) oder ein anderer. Sein Rufname war Hikogorō (彦五郎). Bekannt war er jedoch unter dem Namen Ukon (右近), der jedoch ein Amtsrang ist. Er konvertierte zum katholischen Glauben und erhielt 1564 den Taufnamen Dom Justo).--German WP.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:34, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

To save everybody else the trouble of looking it up themselves, here is the Google Translate translation of the above quote: "In addition to his family name Takayama (高山) was his real first name Tomonaga (友 祥), Nagafusa (長 房), Shigetomo (重 友) or another. His nickname was Hikogorō (彦 五郎). However, he was known under the name Ukon (右 近), but this is an official rank. He converted to Catholicism in 1564 and was given the baptismal name Dom Justo)." Ifdef (talk) 14:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

"Pretended"

"the government post he pretended" - In modern English, "pretend" has the strong implication that the claim is not true. Unless this is the intention (in which case there should be some explanation of it), a more appropriate word might be "claimed". Or, in fact, if there is no dispute at all about whether he really held that post, it should probably just say "the government post he held". Ifdef (talk) 14:41, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Takayama Ukon.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 5 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (to remove the honorific without prejudice against future name discussions) (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

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Dom Justo Takayama → Justo Takayama – Per MOS:HON, the honorific shouldn't be included in the page title; it's not so standard that the name doesn't commonly appear without it, and there's no other Justo Takayama to disambiguate from. — Moriwen (talk) 20:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Tambayan Philippines has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Japan has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Catholicism has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Religion has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Biography has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree with removing the honorific. But we should also decide whether it's "Justo" or "Justus" and if "Ukon" should also be added and in what order if ever. Here are some sources (probably not all reliable) and the name they use:

• "Justo Takayama Ukon": https://takayamaukon.com/
• "Justus Takayama Ukon": https://www.esquiremag.ph/long-reads/features/blessed-takayama-ukon-philippines-a00289-20210203-lfrm
• "Justus Takayama Ukon" and "Ukon Takayama": https://www.ust.edu.ph/blessed-takayama-ukon-the-samurai-of-christ/
• "Justus Ukon Takayama" and "Takayama Ukon": https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1215881
• "Justo Takayama Ukon": https://intramuros.gov.ph/2021/02/03/blessed-justo-takayama-ukon/

—seav (talk) 04:18, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. While it is theoretically possible to have instances where using the honorific in the title is preferred, this isn't one of them. It would require passing WP:COMMONNAME, like with Pope names. As for which name to use, I'm neutral, as there does seem to be a lot of unclear choices, but we can create redirects for the other plausible names. "Justo Takayama Ukon" would probably be my preferred article title, but I don't have a strong opinion on it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:09, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support per nom. Removing the honorific is entirely noncontroversial in keeping with WP:NAME. - Chieharumachi (talk) 11:26, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.