Talk:He who does not work, neither shall he eat

Questioning the Validity of this entire entry

The following concern regarding the article was added to the article by Emyth, and moved here by me:

PLEASE NOTE: Hundreds of years BEFORE this sort of Socialism (in the early 1600s,) Capt. John Smith is said to have issued the order in Jamestown,_Virginia, "Those who don't work, don't eat..." It would be disingenuous and anachronistic to call Capt. Smith a "Socialist" of any stripe... Therefore there is something out of order in this article.

Very much: Look at the cite notes. WND.com is 'worldnetdaily,' but often mockingly called 'worldnutdaily' - a fringe news site usually filled with conspiracy theories, end-times prophercies, and endlessly questioning why Obama won't release his birth certificate. The 'Jamestown Socialist Disaster' story has been debunked elsewhere, quite throughly - it is history of the Dan Brown variety, a pack of lies mixed in with just enough truth to make the lies seem plausible. The other, aproundtable.org, I am unfamiliar with - but a quick glance shows it to be a personal religious blog. What I see here is a rather clear case: Someone really likes the 'Jamestown Socialist Disaster' story and, wishing to do their patriotic duty and warn the world of the dangers of socialism, has placed a mention of it on this article and given two sources utterly devoid of credibility to back them up. I don't usually edit wikipedia, I don't even have an account, but this is so blatant a bad source I'm going to just edit it out myself - and if anyone wishes to revert that edit, I hope you have a very good justification to place here. 2002:5EAD:6A96:0:0:0:0:1 (talk) 22:21, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Critiques of this nature properly go on the talk page. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:30, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

John Smith's use of the aphorism seems to be well attested in reliable sources (some more: [1] [2] [3]). This has nothing to do with socialism; he was apparently addressing the idle gentry who expected that their problems would be solved by him or by the colony's investors: "...thinke not that either my pains, nor the Adventurers purses, will ever maintaine you in idlenesse and sloath". --Macrakis (talk) 03:07, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I will add this into the article. It does need citation, but hopefully that will come. I have deleted the assertion that Lenin's use is a "bastardised interpretation" of the Biblical quotation. The issue is not interpretation but application of the principle. The previous comment, however, implies that "socialism" was unknown before Marxism, whereas it was foreshadowed, in England, for example, in the English Civil War (Diggers and Levellers) and in "Commonwealth" literature back to the Middle Ages and the Peasant's Revolt (see John Ball's comment "When Adam delved...".--Jack Upland (talk) 10:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

During Marx's lifetime and in his writing there was no distinction made between socialism and communism as distinct historical phases. This bifurcation was theorized by Lenin some 30 years after Marx's death. [4] Also, the last two paragraphs are rife with simplistic expositions of Marxian theory and historical generalizations while lacking any citation. Broeslav (talk) 23:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This article, which covers a Biblical expression says almost nothing about its Christian meaning or context. Something about this should be added, although I don't feel knowledgeable enough to do so myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.246.20.127 (talk) 15:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

К чему здесь Андриевская и какое то неправильное перераспределение еды на Украине,можно же просто рассказать нормально историю этой фазы в советском союзе,например : https://ru.wiki.x.io/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%82%D0%BE_%D0%BD%D0%B5_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82,_%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82_%D0%BD%D0%B5_%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82 В Конституции РСФСР 1918 года содержалась статья, обязывающая всех граждан Республики к труду:

Статья 18. Российская Социалистическая Федеративная Советская Республика признает труд обязанностью всех граждан Республики и провозглашает лозунг: «Не трудящийся, да не ест!»

Фраза Ленина в сокращённом виде вошла в текст 12-й статьи Конституции СССР 1936 года:

Статья 12. Труд в СССР является обязанностью и делом чести каждого способного к труду гражданина по принципу: «кто не работает, тот не ест». В СССР осуществляется принцип социализма: «от каждого по его способности, каждому — по его труду».

В слегка изменённом виде этот принцип перешёл и в Конституцию СССР 1977 года:

Статья 14. Источником роста общественного богатства, благосостояния народа и каждого советского человека является свободный от эксплуатации труд советских людей. В соответствии с принципом социализма «От каждого — по способностям, каждому — по труду»

Также фраза вошла вторым пунктом в «Моральный кодекс строителя коммунизма» — свод принципов коммунистической морали, вошедший в текст Третьей Программы КПСС, принятой XXII съездом (1961).

2. Добросовестный труд на благо общества: кто не работает, тот не ест.

Ироничные переработки в художественных фильмах

В комедии Леонида Гайдая «Операция „Ы“ и другие приключения Шурика» фраза была переработана приговорённым к исправительным работам Федей, который сказал подрабатывающему на строительcтве дома главному герою: «Кто не работает, тот ест. Учись, студент!».

Другая переработанная версия этой фразы звучит в советском телевизионном комическом детективе «Ищите женщину» из уст персонажа фильма — инспектора французской полиции Грандена, который в ответ на вопрос своей подруги детства Алисы Постик относительно причины малоуспешности его карьеры говорит: «Ну ты же знаешь наши порядки — кто не работает, того не едят. А я работаю…». Цйфыву (talk) 12:45, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

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Trotsky quote without explanation, further info, or context for it

"Leon Trotsky wrote that: "The old principle: who does not work shall not eat, has been replaced with a new one: who does not obey shall not eat."[9][10]" This could do with more context, as of now its presented as is, with no further info in article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.248.67 (talk) 09:55, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

True, it should be mentioned that Trotsky referred to Stalinism. --MrBurns (talk) 22:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)