Talk:Hana o Pūn / Futari wa NS

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Requested move 4 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Breaking out merge discussion, which may continue as needed. Dekimasuよ! 20:25, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

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Hana o Pūn / Futari wa NS → Hana o Pūn/Futari wa NS – Article title doesn't need a space between the slashes unless it's for technical restrictions. It's not only unnecessary but also grammatically incorrect. These are just two song titles that are paired together. lullabying (talk) 00:27, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is correct usage per Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Slashes as the spaced slash here is used "to separate items that include at least one internal space (the NY 31 east / NY 370 exit)." --Moscow Connection (talk) 05:01, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
  • @Moscow Connection:: I see. Thanks for bringing it up. lullabying (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge discussions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Merge article to Kira Pika and create another redirect without the spaces if you want, rendering the issue moot. Band article is tiny, this album article is even tinier, a single Wikipedia article can certainly cover both. SnowFire (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

I had initially done this but I recently found an article that gives reception information about the song as seen here. I think Kira Pika should be merged to Kirarin Revolution or Draft:Kirarin Revolution discography, however. lullabying (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Article has been updated with reception. I propose Keep for this article but Merge Kira Pika to Kirarin Revolution. lullabying (talk) 22:41, 8 January 2019 (UTC) Oppose merging "Kira Pika". The group is notable per WP:BAND.
And I'm opposed to merging this article (the one about the single) as well. The single chanted and Lullabying even found a good source discussing the songs in detail. --Moscow Connection (talk) 09:32, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Kira Pika should be merged to Kirarin Revolution because the group was created just for the show and for the singers/actresses to play the characters in a real-life context. The group has only released one single and was active for probably around 3 months (plus a concert appearance in 2009 and a television appearance in 2015). The article's scope is only limited to Kirarin Revolution and cannot be expanded as they have disbanded and Mai Hagiwara has retired from entertainment. See WP:MERGEREASONs 2, 3, and 4. I currently submitted Draft:Kirarin Revolution discography for review and I think we can merge it there. lullabying (talk) 17:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

The group is still notable per WP:BAND. If even it existed for one minute, it would still be notable. And actually, I looked at the article "Kira Pika" and the statement that the duo disbanded in 2007 can't be verified by the source given. --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:17, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

They were only active for 3 months, but I get your point on when their disbandment took place as being unclear. Notability as a band is not being disputed -- the article overlaps with Kirarin Revolution and the group itself isn't independent outside of the show. You can also say the same thing with Ships (band). Their singles charted but there is barely any information about them aside from them being created for Kirarin Revolution. Other similar examples include Love Live! and The Idolmaster Cinderella Girls, where the voice cast do hold concerts as the characters they portray, and their singles chart as well, but their band presence alone depends on the show and they are not independent from the show as a band (and there's even more information on them than there is for Kira Pika) -- context about the group depends heavily on the main series they are from, causing an overlap in articles. lullabying (talk) 17:22, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

This is taken from WP:MERGEREASON and here are my suggestions about merging Kira Pika with Kirarin Revolution:

1. Duplicate: There are two or more pages on exactly the same subject, with the same scope. Y Kira Pika and Kirarin Revolution are different in that one focuses on the group and the other focuses on the show, but Kira Pika is a group solely created for the show featuring the actresses who are technically still playing their characters from the show. It's just that they're playing them in a real-life context.
2. Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Y Kirarin Revolution#Anime already mentions the "real-life context" and crossovers with other TV Tokyo shows. Kira Pika is also basically a band featuring characters from Kirarin Revolution performing in a real-life context.
3. Short text: If a page is very short and is unlikely to be expanded within a reasonable amount of time, it often makes sense to merge it with a page on a broader topic. Y Kira Pika released only one single and was active for 3 months, plus a guest appearance at a Kirarin Revolution concert in 2009 and a television show performance in 2015. No other information can be added, especially since Mai Hagiwara is no longer in entertainment.
4. Context: If a short article requires the background material or context from a broader article in order for readers to understand it. Y Kira Pika was made for Kirarin Revolution and is not independent from the show. Koharu Kusumi and Mai Hagiwara are only performing as their characters.

Aside from this a lot of the information from Kira Pika now overlaps with Hana o Pūn / Futari wa NS, and Hana o Pūn / Futari wa NS has now established notability independent outside of the show. Kira Pika can also be merged to Draft:Kirarin Revolution discography once I finish getting feedback from it. lullabying (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Do you really want to delete it so much?
I will just point out that "Kira Pika" shouldn't redirect to "Kirarin Revolution" cause presently the duo is not discussed in the main article in detail and a person coming from the redirect won't understand why he was sent there and won't find the information he wanted.
I don't see any harm in the article existing. I am sure it can be "expanded within a reasonable amount of time". As for other "merge reasons", I don't think they are valid. The pages aren't on the same subject, they don't have a large overlap, etc. (As have said already, you can't even find any details about the group in the main article. So obviously the main article doesn't have the same scope and maybe it doesn't even need that information. A link to "Kira Pika" will suffice. Therefore I think it is more logical when the duo has its own article, even it's just a couple of paragraphs.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 09:07, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Because Kira Pika is an in-show group consisting of two characters from Kirarin Revolution. It's an idol group made for the show. That suffices as an overlap. You can see that Aqours redirects to Love Live! Sunshine!!, μ's redirects to Love Live!, and Lilpri doesn't have an article separate from the show for the same reason. lullabying (talk) 09:42, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Sailor Moon is a character from Sailor Moon, yet is has a standalone article. And Miley Stewart, etc.
A even better example would be Spinal Tap (band).
And Big Time Rush (band). --Moscow Connection (talk) 09:51, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Sailor Moon (character) and Miley Stewart count more as character articles, but they probably can stand alone because there's more information about them and because they're iconic/memorable in pop culture. (I do think Miley Stewart needs more articles on reception but that's beyond the point.) Big Time Rush (band) is the best example of an in-show band having its own article, but that's because there are tons of articles discussing their music style and artistry as a band, hence lots of discussion about reception. If you're able to find WP:RELIABLESOURCEs about Kira Pika that discusses the band's artistry and etc. separate from Kirarin Revolution and can extend the article from stub-class within a reasonable amount of time (as per WP:MERGEREASON), then the article should be kept. But as it stands now, there isn't enough information that isn't a repeat of Hana o Pūn / Futari wa NS or Kirarin Revolution. Also, there is no new information about them since Kirarin Revolution has ended almost 10 years ago and Mai Hagiwara retired in 2017. It makes sense to merge Kira Pika to Kirarin Revolution because they are an in-show group with characters from the show. lullabying (talk) 16:46, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Lullabying. If the only reason the band is notable is because it's part of a notable show, so it should be discussed in the show page. Moscow Connection say: "I will just point out that "Kira Pika" shouldn't redirect to "Kirarin Revolution" cause presently the duo is not discussed in the main article in detail and a person coming from the redirect won't understand why he was sent there and won't find the information he wanted". That what's a merge is about. When a proper merge is done, the content of Kira Pika should be included in Kirarina Revolution. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 17:07, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

About your Third Opinion request: The request made at Third Opinion has been removed (i.e. declined). Like all other moderated content dispute resolution venues at Wikipedia, Third Opinion requires recent thorough talk page discussion before seeking assistance and the most recent discussion here is almost two months old. You might want to request a consensus evaluation at WP:AN. — TransporterMan (TALK) 21:38, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks for your suggestions. lullabying (talk) 16:37, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment. Since Lullabying created the "Kirarin Revolution discography", he or she has AfDed or boldly redirected several articles there. I personally find all this annoying, if not disruptive. The MilkyWay article, for example, was easlily defendable if only he or she notified me.
I had to come here yet again because I saw him/her posting a request for closure. First an WP:3O (it was so long ago, it seems like a couple of years have passed!), then I can remember a post to WP:AN (yes, about this very article!), now a WP:ANRFC. Just WP:DROPTHESTICK. Could you please, I'm begging you... I had other plans for today. --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:08, 21 December 2019 (UTC) And for tomorrow. And for the coming year. --Moscow Connection (talk) 13:20, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Moscow Connection: Precisely because this discussion has been open for over an year, with no activity in over six months, it's way overdue to be closed and I cannot close it myself since I participated in this discussion. I'd rather it be closed with a new discussion opened than to leave it in stasis. And honestly, I'm not trying to step on people's toes, but you really need to drop this -- if you're unsatisfied with what's been going on, then just open a deletion review to defend your decisions instead of passive-aggressively attacking me at any chance you get. I've been very patient with your behavior, but this has to stop. lullabying (talk) 22:06, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.