Talk:Fashion Institute of Technology

Puff piece?

Is this a puff piece or what? 216.222.165.97

No, but its not great! I found half of it missing thanks to a poor edit by Ssermoneta to remove an unlicensed image that corrupted the text and lost the bottom half of the article. All solved now, but still needs a clean-up. Rgds, - Trident13 23:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Who cares?

Does anyone really care that Nikki Hilton dropped out of FIT? Duuuhhhhh.

However, it might be worth noting that the titular character in Betsy's Wedding was a FIT student.

Never mind, I'm removing the Nikki Hilton crap myself.

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 15:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Nikki Hilton currently doing anything in the fashion industry? If so, it might be relevant. 2600:1700:24D0:2CA0:C1A:3620:133C:6D89 (talk) 00:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Display img3.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Name?

The name is bordering on the absurd (and, IMO, is likely just an attempt to seem more credible). Even if they do have technology courses this name cannot be justified, unlike a hypothetical (but still absurdish) "Institute of Fashion and Technology". While there is nothing we can do about this naming, the article would benefit from some sort of explanation/criticism of the name, even be it brief.

I am aware of the need for references, but those knowing the business should be able to dig something published up somewhere. 188.100.206.102 (talk) 12:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Unless you believe that the name of this article does not accurately reflect the name of the school, this is not the correct forum for your suggestion. An encyclopedia only gives information; it does not editorialize. If you simply do not approve of the name Fashion Institute of Technology, you should take the matter up with the school's administration. I am sure they will give your suggestions for renaming it all the attention they deserve.--Jim10701 (talk) 16:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why that person left that comment. I'm alumni and they totally offer technology courses here. How else did I get my BFA in Interactive Media? Fact is, most art colleges in NYC offer technology courses now.--74.101.43.43 (talk) 01:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Notable alumni

Marisol Deluna is listed as an alumna, but the reference (a NY Times wedding announcement) indicates that she graduated from a school in Kansas, and merely took classes at FIT. Similarly, there is no evidence that Michael Kors ever graduated from the school, although the reference given at the Michael Kors' wikipedia article states that he merely attended. There is no evidence either in this article or in her wikipedia bio article, that Carolina Herrera ever even attended, let alone graduated from, FIT. Notably, Deluna, Herrera, and Kors are not named on the list of notable alumni on FIT's own website (http://www.fitnyc.edu/5002.asp). Calvin Klein also never graduated -- he was instead awarded an honorary Ph.D. -- but the school itself does list him as an alumnus. That seems like a bit of puffery to me, but I guess it's enough to keep him on the list of alumni in this article. Absent proof that Deluna, Herrera, and Kors earned degrees at FIT, however, they should be removed from the list of alumni. Bronx Knight (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC).

You are using an unusually narrow definition of the word alumnus. The words alumnus and graduate do not mean the same thing. Any former student can be considered an alumnus of a school, whether he graduated or not. Dictionaries typically use some phrase like "graduate or former student" (emphasis mine) in the definition of the word. If the persons you mentioned ever were enrolled as students at FIT, they can legitimately be listed as alumni, even though they did not graduate from FIT. If the section were titled Notable graduates instead of Notable alumni, your objection would be correct and those names should be removed; but since it lists alumni, not graduates, they can stay.--Jim10701 (talk) 14:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to add Nina Garcia and Antonio Lopez to the list of notable alumni. I have Nina Garcia own website bio (I guess she could be lying) and the book "Antonio: Fashon, Art, Sex & Disco" by Robert and Mauricio Padilha as sources. Librarianhelen (talk) 19:28, 14 January 2016 (UTC)librarianhelen Librarianhelen (talk) 21:38, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

In the separate alumni list (where they are already listed), not in the paragraph in the article. BMK (talk) 23:25, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

OH! I get it thanks. Meaning I CAN add them to the paragraph. Librarianhelen (talk) 12:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I see now that the message under Alumni suggests that well-known Alumni should be kept to A-list people who might be known by the someone completely unfamiliar with fashion. Fair enough. Folks might not know Antonio Lopez, despite his fabulousness, but Nina Garcia, as a judge on 14 seasons of the on-going television show Project Runway is definitely someone many readers would know and is certainly more of a household name, at this point in history, than Joel Schumacher who hasn't had a real hit film in over 10 years. If we're going to have a list of well-known alumni at all (and perhaps we shouldn't) then I would argue that she belongs on that list an a-list alumna. Further, the objections to her being listed and the change in "rules" seems to be in reaction to my having added some alumni in the first place. And I find it puzzling. After all, Nanette Lepore's name was up there for who knows how long and she's definitely not a household name. I had to look her up. But now the "rules" are different. Librarianhelen (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Removing {{advert}}

I am removing the {{advert}} tag. I have rewritten or removed all the remaining non-neutral and peacock language I could find, and I believe that the article now is at least as encyclopedic in style as 90% of the articles in Wikipedia. I do not, by the way, have any vested interest at all in FIT. I used to live across Eighth Avenue from the campus, but that is the extent of my relationship with the school.--Jim10701 (talk) 14:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Community College?

I'm curious, why is FIT listed under Wikipedia's SUNY community colleges? There seems to be a big debate as to whether it is or isn't online but there's never been enough information to back that argument up otherwise. It can't be because it offers 2 year degrees, is it? If that was the case, wouldn't that qualify many private colleges as community colleges as well? --74.101.43.43 (talk) 01:51, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

A "community college" is how SUNY lists FIT -- see this. Also, community colleges are by definition public colleges, there's no such thing as a private community college. Private junior colleges, yes. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:33, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I think SUNY lists it as a community college because it was legally organized under NYS law provisions that apply to community colleges, and they amended the law to allow the granting of bachelor's (and later master's degrees) without granting a new charter. So legally, per New York Law, it's classified as a "community college". But I think don't think this is dispositive for Wikipedia. While we are not supposed to make editorial judgments, US News seems to treat FIT as a regional university (bachelors and some masters) and I tend to agree. As for "community college" and public/private, it may be a necessary condition to be a community college to be public (as is FIT), but it is not a sufficient condition. SUNY also has 4 doctoral granting comprehensive universities--they are public too but not community colleges JustAnotherNewYorker (talk) 22:02, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

So what is the legal definition of "community college"? When most people hear that term, they probably think of a school that's obligated to provide an education to anyone in the community, provided he or she is at least 18 and can pay tuition. In other words, one doesn't really apply to a community college; one simply registers. FIT, on the other hand, is relatively selective with a 45 percent acceptance rate. 2602:30A:C045:4890:C4CC:B7EE:5E3B:3992 (talk) 04:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

To return to this [after a long hiatus, Mae Culpa], the legal definition in NYS is in NYS Education law, Title 7 Section 6301 which seems to have been altered over the years to cover almost all colleges in the state. The popular definition (I suppose) is the Wikipedia page for Community College, which mentions open enrollment, but also mentions primarily providing transfer classes. While FIT was chartered as a "community college" (see )) and is listed by SUNY as a Community College (see and select for "community college"), I don't think that a legal distinction or SUNY decision is dispositive and it should not be considered a CC by Wikipedia and I'd list it with the SUNY Senior colleges.

Alumni

I've just inadvertently reverted Beyond My Ken's reversion of my shortening of the list of alumni here (Twinkle error, I'd meant merely to look at the previous version); I apologise for that. However, I have to ask why on earth BMK made that edit. Why is it remotely useful to have the same WP:LAUNDRY list of alumni here that is already at List of alumni of the Fashion Institute of Technology? I suggest shortening the list here to, say, ten names that people are actually likely to recognise. I propose Kors, Klein and Schumacher for such a list, the only ones that I personally have heard of. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I was unaware of the existence of the list article, so the link to it is sufficient, and, as you suggest, just a handful in the main article of the most prominent names would be good. I suggest a hidden comment (or comments) would be helpful pointing editors to the list article. My apologies. BMK (talk) 00:29, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

I've now done that, BMK, to the best of my ability (including a hidden text note). Please improve if you can. I note with some interest that Marissa Webb, one of the handful mentioned by the school as notable here, does not appear to have an article on this wiki. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:31, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

BMK Justlettersandnumbers It has been a very busy week again but I am back to discuss alumni additions. While not particularly attached to adding Nina Garcia or Antonio Lopez, I would like to make the argument for a more gender and ethnically diverse alumni list. I also would like to compare the "rules" set above with what is the practice on other college wikipedia articles, with a focus on top ten fashion schools in the US and globally. 1. The Fashion Institute of Technology has a predominantly female student body, and this seems to have been the case for a while. It is also know for its diversity, with just under half the students being self-identified as white. Therefore is would argue that an alumni list consisting of three white men, even if they are folks "people are actually likely to recognise" (British spelling?) is a little, well, imbalanced. Even accounting for the imbalance of fame by gender or race in the world, it might still make sense to include at least one women or ethnic minority on the list. We have a lot to choose from, and as someone who DOES know something about the history of fashion, I would be happy to create a short list for discussion. Norma Kamali, who was absolutely ground breaking in the eighties, Stephen Burrows, who broke the color barrier in the 1970s & just a few years ago had an exhibit at the NY Historical Society, Antonio Lopez (mentioned before). Which brings us around to the question of whether these should be names that people actually recognize. Because Wikipedia is both a general and specialty encyclopedia, I think there is room for listing those persons considered notable within their own professions. Indeed, I think that is the best guideline. It would certainly be the guideline used in an encyclopedia of fashion or design. 2. Many other colleges and universities have alumni listings that are quite lengthy. While I DON'T think that needs to happen here, I would like to see some consistency between fashion and design schools. Parsons School of Design (my next Wikipedia endeavor), which is generally ranked as 1st or 2nd in the US and 4th globally has no alumni listed on its Wikipedia page, neither does 1# globally ranked Central Saint Martins. Other top schools: e.g. Pratt Institute, Kent State, SCAD, London College of Fashion, Bunka College of Fashion, all do have lists, some short and some long. So . . . there is no consistency, BUT those who do list alumni do not seem to use the average person's knowledge as a gauge for inclusion.

Therefore, I would like to persuade you to let me include one or two alumni of notability in their profession who represent the true demographic of the student body of the Fashion Institute of Technology. It doesn't have to be Nina Garcia. Librarianhelen (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2016 (UTC) Not sure how to seek consensus other than thisLibrarianhelen (talk) 17:43, 24 January 2016 (UTC) Correction: Parsons News School of Design wikipedia article has an extensive alumni list focused on their fashion design alumni. Librarianhelen (talk) 23:33, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

References

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Edits Undone

Hello all. Many, but not all of my edits have been undone, and I have been asked to received group consensus on the matter.

The majority of the edits have been an effort to correct the problem too many "sources too closely associated with the subject" as we have been asked to "please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources." Others have been the correction of broken links or the replacement of broken links with third party sources. One the problems with the fitnyc.edu links is that ALL of them are broken. This is the perfect opportunity to replace these links with third party sources where possible or with corrected fitnyc source links. Some of the changes in this realm have been left alone, while others have been undone. For instance in the section on the history of the Museum at FIT, my updated sources were changed back to the broken links that existed before, while the improvements that I made to the opening lines were left alone. I am a little puzzled by these actions.

More controversial, and understandably so, would be the additions I wish to make to the list of alumni. I do understand that we don't want this to be a puff piece. Please see conversation above. Many colleges and university wikipedia entries list notable alumni - some even with photographs (see University of Missouri) while other pages weave information about alumni into the entries (see New York University). There doesn't seem to a common practice or protocol. It has been recently been suggested that alumni listed here be "a-list" names that might be known to the general public. Therefore I conceded that Antonio Lopez perhaps doesn't fit the bill and I heartily agree that Nanette Lepore should never have been listed. But I don't really understand the objection to Nina Garcia. It's not that I have particular thing for Nina Garcia, it's just that the representation of notable alumni seemed to need diversity and dimension as the Fashion Institute clearly does more than produce american male fashion designers. As a fashion journalist, editor and tv celebrity, Nina Garcia seems a good fit for the notable alumni list.

I would love feedback from BMK and others Librarianhelen (talk) 15:30, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Justlettersandnumbers Thanks for understanding about museum source. Librarianhelen (talk) 21:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Quick apology: with this edit I carelessly and inadvertently removed a perfectly valid reference added by Librarianhelen. I'm sorry about that, and glad to see that it has been restored to the page. I've no opinion on the notability of Nina Garcia (sorry!). Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:10, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

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