Talk:Chinese zodiac

Month

On the day that the month changes from one animal to the other - at what time of the day does it so change? 120.56.190.197 (talk) 02:35, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Goat or sheep?

The 'Personalities' section refers to sheep, while the Chinese calendar section refers to Goat. It appears like the modern interpretation is Goat, however I'm not comfortable with changing the page myself as I don't know enough on the subject. A page that discusses this in detail: Year of the Sheep or Year of the Goat?

Four Animal Trines Stolen?

The text used in this area is EXACTLY the same as the text found on this site:[1] If someone would check this out, I would much appreciate it.

Article title

If Chinese zodiac refers to the same thing as Sheng xiao, the article should definitely be moved to that title, as it is likely the most commonly recognised term in the English language. --Paul_012 ^(talk) 12:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested Move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move Parsecboy (talk) 00:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Sheng xiao → Chinese zodiac — per the above reasons — Paul_012 ^(talk) 18:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support move. Why was it at this Chinese title in the first place when there is a well known English equivalent? Badagnani (talk) 19:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support and ditto User:Badagnani's query. — AjaxSmack 00:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support as the most appropriate term for an English encyclopedia. Kanguole 15:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

There is a similar issue with Wu Xing / Five elements (Chinese philosophy). Kanguole 15:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Secret Animal Ambiguity

The article is ambiguous about determining ones secret animal, the zodiac sign that is based upon what hour you were born. Do you go by your local time or Chinese time? It says you disregard daylight savings and gives the times of each sign, but it doesn't specify what time to use. For example, I was born on April 13th, 1984 at 11:30pm Central Daylight Time, which translates to April 14th, 1984 at 12:30pm in China. So which do we use??? 12.217.38.140 (talk) 23:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• The article gets hard to read at that point, but it says "location of the sun in the sky" -- related to local time, but not exactly what shows up in clocks. 1100-1300 would refer to the time when the sun's roughly overhead, or at least halfway between sunup and sundown. 129.7.254.33 (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Year cycle?

It seems bizarre to me that the 12-year cycle is not discussed in this article at all, even though the lead paragraph says it's the whole point of the Chinese zodiac. I came to this article looking for the table listing the animals for specific years. I think that's probably a very common case for what people want when they come to this article. The information is in Chinese astrology and Sexagenary cycle, and those may be the best places for it, but since it's by far the major application of the Chinese zodiac at least in English-speaking thought, shouldn't there at least be a link to one of those articles from this one? I haven't added it myself because I don't know what's the most appropriate way to work it into what's already here and I don't want to mess up the separation someone apparently considered important between the "zodiac" and "astrology" articles. 128.100.5.116 (talk) 14:29, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I added a Sexagenary cycle section (named "The years"), hope that helps. Matthew 百家姓之四 Discussion 討論 07:12, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Could someone clarify whether the chinese zodiac year commences on the Chinese solar year or on the Chinese Luna Year. There seams to be some controversey on this topic as hinted in the section and in the links below (I have included some references):

"A lot of people mistaken that the Lunar New Year is the transition point of the Zodiac - that is not true...."

"Interestingly, different schools of Feng Shui have different theories.

1.   Chinese New Year
2.   4th February

Chinese new year is based on the lunar calendar. 4th of February is considered the beginning of the solar calendar. For both these schools, New Year coincides with the start of Spring which to the farmers in ancient China signified new beginnings.

3. Winter solstice

According to the classical Chue school of Feng Shui, the Chinese signs change on the Winter solstice because it’s the shortest day of the year. After that, the amount of sunlight starts to increase." "According to the discipline of Chinese Zodiacs, each year belongs to one of the twelve Zodiacs.

Simply stated, what the general public refers to as calendars can be grouped into three main types: first, the western Gregorian calendar with year starting on January 1st; second, the Chinese solar calendar built on the lunar cycles with the year starting on the first day of the solar year (the date varies from year to year referencing the western calendar) and third, the lunisolar calendar with the year divided by 24 solar terms, and with the start of the year always on Feb 4th or 5th, the “Li Chun Ri 立春日”.

As an example, 2019 is the year of the Pig, the start day of the year “Li Chun Ri 立春日” fell on Feb 5th. Referencing a person born on Jan 30th, since the date of birth was before “Li Chun 立春” (first day of the year), the person belongs to the Zodiac of the past year, i.e. the Dog, and NOT the Pig. The person could only be a Pig if he/she be born on or after Feb 5 of 2019."

"In many renowned publications about Chinese Calendar Science and Astrology, it is clearly defined and explained that the 10 Heavenly (or Celestial) Stems 天干and 12 Earthly (or Terrestrial) Branches 地支 are based on Solar Terms 節氣 of the sun, not lunar calendar of the moon. As the 12 Zodiac Animals represent the 12 Earthly Branches, the Chinese Zodiac publications also clearly stated that Chinese Zodiac is based on Solar Terms, and it begins on “Start of Spring” 立春, not Lunar New Year."

"Many Chinese horoscope sites, not from Chinese professional fortune-tellers, determine people's Chinese zodiac sign by the Chinese New Year's day. That is wrong. In Chinese Astrology calendar, the first day of the astrological year isn't the Chinese New Year's day, is the day of Start of the Spring Start of Spring, which is the first day of the Tiger Month. The Tiger Month begins at the time that the Sun enters the 315th degree on the tropical zodiac. It's a solar time, not the lunar time. The Tiger Month starts around February 4 each year. It's nothing to do with Chinese New Year's Day."

This topic not in agreement with related topic

My understanding is that the 12 animals are a mnemonic system for the Earthly Branches. One aspect of the Earthly Branches is that they mark the orbit of Jupiter, rounded off to 12 (it is 11.86 Earth-years). Why does this topic not sync with the Earthly Branches topic? 24.24.170.205 (talk) 19:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Tense?

"Similarly, 鼠 (Rat) can also be translated as mouse, as originally there are no distinctive words for the two genera in Chinese." "[O]riginally" and "are" in the same sentence are confuzing. ✍ (talk) 02:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Source info NOT reflected in article

In the “Years” section of Chinese zodiac, the text reads “The actual year commence is based on Chinese calendar, always February 4 of every year.” and a source is cited. However, in that very source, it is stated that the new year is usually on the 4th or 5th of February, and gives comprehensive tables year by year of the exact date and time at which the new year begins. These are mostly on the 4th, but some are on the 5th. This same exact problem (even down to citing the same source and not following what it says) occurs on Sexagenary cycle, whereas Chinese astrology and Chinese New Year show the years based on the Chinese calendar, with the date of the new year changing by several days or even weeks each year.Qaanol (talk) 00:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

story where the cat gets tricked by the Mouse about the day of the feast

i still cant find it!! i saw it on fruits basket and ive searched google a ton of times and ask.co too and i cant find it in here! HELP!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kagome Higurashi01 (talk • contribs) 22:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Wrong

Chinese zodiac is based on 24 Jieqi, start from the day of lichun, not the Chinese New Year!--刻意(Kèyì) 11:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC) That's right. It would be better to take down the article rather than let it continue to exist with this misinformation! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.155.237.2 (talk) 03:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Reference link

Reference number 5 leads to this site: [2]. I don't think that is a language most people on the english encyclopedia can understand. Should it be removed? Creation7689 (talk) 01:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Should this article be renamed?

Is "Chinese zodiac" even a correct term? The animals of the "Chinese zodiac" have nothing to do with constellations of the Zodiac (except for the Ox or Taurus, but even this is probably a pure coincidence.) At least in some old encyclopediae, this series of 12 pictures of animals, used in calendars, is known as the Dodecaoros. Moreover, they suggest that the same series has been used, not only in China and East Asia, but also in "Greek-Egyptian times", which probably means Alexandria of the Hellenistic period. -FKLS (talk) 10:56, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree that the name is problematic. Particularly because traditional Chinese culture has a distinct system corresponding to the what the zodiac actually is, i.e. a way of dividing the ecliptic vis a vis the background of fixed stars. Whereas this "year of X animal" practice really seems to be an arbitrary property attached to the Chinese calendar. The only similarity is the number 12 and animals (which the article points out, is only somewhat true of the Western zodiac). On the otherhand, this does seem to be what English speakers usually call it (at least from what I saw on google). Why not just title the article with the English transliteration of the Chinese word Shēngxiào? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.182.72.219 (talk) 20:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

According to this article https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Zodiac "zodiac" is related to the word ζῷον, referring to a cycle of animals, so it's actually kinda fitting? 188.125.181.97 (talk) 02:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Turkic Bulgar names

"somor"(in Bulgar language) = Rat, "şegor" = Ox, "vereni" = Dragon, "dilom" = Snake, "dvan" = Horse, "tekou" = Goat, "toh" = Rooster, "yethi" = Dog, "doh's" = Pig

All of them were Turkic names.

source: "Tuna Bulgarları ve Dilleri" (by Talat Tekin) = "The (Turkic) Language of the Danubian Bulgar State" Böri (talk) 08:42, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

but we don't know the names of Tiger, Rabbit and Monkey in Turkic-Bulgar language. Böri (talk) 09:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

somor < sungur, şegor < sıgur < sıgır = sığır = Ox, vereni < evren, dilom < cilom < cılam < cılan < yılan = Snake, dvan < cuan < yun = yund/yunt = Horse, tekou < tekü < tekegü = teke, toh < tawuk < taguk/takagu = tavuk = Rooster, yethi < it < ıt = Dog, doh's < dokus < dogus < donguz/tonguz = domuz = Pig; so they were all Turkic names! Böri (talk) 10:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The Chinese names of the 12 animals (in Pinyin)

"shu" = Rat, "niu" = Ox, "hu" = Tiger, "tu" = Rabbit, "long" = Dragon, "she" = Snake, "ma" = Horse, "yang" = Goat, "hou" = Monkey, "ji" = Rooster, "gou" = Dog, "zhu" = Pig Böri (talk) 08:59, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Old Turkic names & modern Turkish names

"Sıçgan"(in Old Turkic)= sıçan(in modern Turkish)= Rat, "Ud" = sığır = Ox, "Bars" = pars/kaplan = Tiger, "Tavışgan" = tavşan = Rabbit, "Lu" = ejderha = Dragon, "Yılan" = yılan = Snake, "Yund" = at = Horse, "Koy" = koyun = Goat, "Biçin" = maymun = Monkey, "Taguk" = tavuk = Rooster, "İt" = it/köpek = Dog, "Tonguz" = domuz = Pig Böri (talk) 11:24, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

National variants

The Persian zodiac replaces Tiger with leopard, and Dragon is replaced by either crocodile, whale, or snail. The Thai zodiac replaces Pig with elephant. The Vietnamese zodiac replaces Rabbit with cat. 208.65.73.105 (talk) 20:05, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. Islamic tradition (yes, a Mideastern religion!) has it that Muhammad (Islam's Last Prophet) was born in the "Year of the Elephant". Who's to say Asian zodiac concepts didn't filter into dry Arabia? And if the word "elephant" is any indication, the meme might have gotten to Mecca by way of Thailand (or whatever was in Southeast Asia at the time). 68.37.254.48 (talk) 01:50, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Of course, Islam has a different explanation for the name "Year of the Elephant": it attributes the title to some invasion by elephant or an army or something. 68.37.254.48 (talk) 01:52, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Reckoning backwards (by strictly solar years, which are not necessarily what was used in Arabia or in China/Thailand), the nearest Year of the Pig (Thailand=Elephant) to the Islamic historians' 570 would be 567 or so - about four years off. However, still pretty close. 68.37.254.48 (talk) 02:14, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

lost in translation 酉

It's the sign of the bird, not the Rooster. Lostubes (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Day

How come the day section doesn't have a table listing what animal corresponds to what day like the year, month, and hour sections do?149.166.35.220 (talk) 04:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That's because the 12-day cycle repeats infinitely. For example, today, 7th December 2013 is the unique day that is represented by the day of the Goat. Now, 19th December 2013 will be the next day of the Goat. And then 1st Jan will be. This will go on infinitely, so there is no way to identify it other than calculating. You may calculate the day and other elements through online calculators such as these. But mind you that the calculator shows up the wrong month often. For that refer to the Wiki chart. The hour and day are generally correct. 120.56.183.147 (talk) 16:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Introduction

Vietnam isn't part of East Asia. Please mention Vietnam seperately. --2.245.69.61 (talk) 00:19, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

season

spring dont start in aries on arctic side? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HeSeaBlueDogJueyin (talk • contribs) 11:55, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Emoji

The section Chinese zodiac in other countries should probably mention that most animal emojis have been added specifically for the purpose of displaying zodiac signs (Eastern and Western). Also, the existence of face-only and full-body variants is related to this. (Unicode chart) — Christoph Päper 22:28, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

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Shouldn't There Be a History Section?

Shouldn't there be a history section exploring the evolution and development of the Chinese Zodiac? There has to be some academic work on this topic done in either the West or China... Right now reasearch using a Google search simply shows pop-knowledge... Stevenmitchell (talk) 05:53, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

That's exactly what I just came to ask. It would be great to be able to compare with the development of other cultures' zodiac systems. Jyg (talk) 05:41, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Sheep or goat

This article puts the animal that comes after the horse in the Chinese zodiac as the goat, but in several other Chinese horoscope websites I have looked at this is the sheep. Vorbee (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Animals?

The second paragraph says all the years are named for animals: "The Chinese zodiac is represented by 12 animals,". However, a dragon is not an animal, at least not a real animal. Should this be clarified? TundraGreen (talk) 04:33, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

@TundraGreen:  Not done: Most Chinese media refer the zodiac symbols as "animals." Dragons are legendary creatures, but creatures are still under the "animal umbrella." Plus, "animals" sounds better than "symbols." - Josephua (talk) 02:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

i agree with your response because dragons aren't real. However, i think in ancient times, mythical creatures were important to constellations and space astrology such as zodiac signs Cancerzodicsign (talk) 15:42, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Dogcompatibility.jpg.png
• Dragoncompatibility.jpg.png
• Goatcompatibility.jpg.png
• Horsecompatibility.jpg.png
• Mokeycompatibility.jpg.png
• Oxcompatibility.jpg.png
• Pigcompatibility.jpg.png
• Rabbitcompatibility.jpg.png
• Ratcompatibility.jpg.png
• Roostercompatibility.jpg.png
• Snakecompatibility.jpg.png
• Tiggercompatibility.jpg.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:36, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

It should be Hare. Rabbits are not a native animal to China and Korea. Hares and rabbits are very different in behavior and biology.

No mention of the Hare anywhere. From what I can deduce the Rabbit has replaced the Hare in 20th Century. According to reference list of mammals in China there are no native rabbits in China. Native animals living in China that resemble rabbits are pika and hare, they are different from rabbits. Rabbits live in burrows in the ground their young when born are like the young of cats and dogs, they take time to develop. Almost all hares, including Chinese and Korean hares live above ground and young are born more mature, like the young of horses, cows and deer. Rabbits and hares look similar the simplest way to distinguish them is most hares usually have black tips to their ears which rabbits do not.

Korea the same as China, no native rabbits only pika and hare

Bob Fredo 22:40, 20 February 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob-fred01 (talk • contribs)

References

Whale

I haven't be able to find any secondary sources that confirm that the Persian version of the zodiac uses the whale instead of the dragon. Apart from Wikipedia I see nothing else mentioning it and should be notice that the article about Persian astrology seems to imply that Persians basically use the monthly Western Zodiac and not the Eastern Zodiac, which make sense considering that the Western Zodiac comes from Babylon and Persians would be more influenced by them (and the Greeks) than by the Chinese. I think that if no reliable source can be provide that confirms the claim should be remove from here and from the navigation table. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 04:32, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

The addition was made by User:ThunderBrine in this edit. --Paul_012 (talk) 18:29, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I will have to agree with the removal of whale. After finding a shred of information, I have tried to find more information related to the Whale being part of the zodiac, to no avail. If I find it, I will add the information to this thread. To be honest, I was already suspicious of the Whale being part of a Persian variant of the Asian Zodiac, but I excused it because Persia is located in between three continents: Europe, Asia, and Africa, So perhaps the Asian culture spread from China to India to the Middle East. The Whale being a Dragon equivalent made sense because of historical accounts of sea monsters and sea dragons actually being whales. If you are curious, the shred of information given to me was as detailed, and I may have made a mistake. I apologize for recording false information. This information was obtained when I was in the middle of searching and editing through the etymology/inspiration sections of certain wikis concerning fictional material. "Although whales are not part of East Asian zodiac, they are in the position of dragons in the Persian zodiac." ThunderBrine (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Dont' worry and yes I saw some mentions of it in some wikis about videogames or something like that. Glad that we could solve it. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 20:27, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Proof

Well I came across to a discussion about this matter in Reddit's ArkHistorians subreedit and found out this:

...And I know you specifically didn’t ask about the whale-dragon switch, but I’m going to answer that anyway! I touched on this subject in this previous answer of mine, about dragons. Essentially, it seems that the creature referred to in Chinese as lóng and in Mongol as lū was translated into Persian as nahang, a word referring to dangerous water beasts both real and legendary (crocodiles, hippos, sharks, sea serpents, etc.) Only in the the 20th century did nahang shift to referring specifically to cetaceans, though it retains the more generic and monstrous sense in classically styled poetry.

I ask further if this information could be confirmed:

The traditional Persian translation/equivalent for the Chinese/Turkic “year of the dragon” is “sāl-e nahang,” which in Modern Persian means “year of the whale.” In the medieval context in which this translation originates, however, “year of the water monster/crocodile” would be a better translation. Modern Persian generally uses “azhdahā” as a translation for “lóng,” including in the context of the Chinese twelve-year animal calendar. However, references to the traditional “Turki” calendar continue to refer to the year as “sāl-e nahang.”

And ask for references:

Sure! The use of nahang to translate this part of the twelve-animal year cycle appears in the Rasulid Hexaglot (P. B. Golden, ed., The King’s Dictionary: The Rasūlid Hexaglot – Fourteenth Century Vocabularies in Arabic, Persian, Turkic, Greek, Armenian and Mongol, tr. T. Halasi- Kun, P. B. Golden, L. Ligeti, and E. Schütz, HO VIII/4, Leiden, 2000.) It's also used this way in a poem by Abu Nasr Farāhi in his Nesābo-ssebyān (there's an edition ed. Mohammad Javād Mashkur, Tehrān: Sāzmān-e Enteshārāt-e Ashrafi, 1354 [1975].) Strangely enough the only modern reference work I can find at the moment that refers specifically to the nahang in this context is Jan Gyllenbok, Encyclopaedia of Historical Metrology, Weights, and Measures, Volume 1, 2018, p. 244.

Thus it seems that ThunderBrine was not wrong on that the whale is used instead of the dragon in the Persian version of the Asian Zodiac. However there can be some caveats, like that the term "year of the whale" is more modern and that medievally it meant "water monster". Therefore I think we can re-add the whale as a variant with some of that clarification and using the references. Opinions? --Dereck Camacho (talk) 04:14, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for this discovery, Dereck Camacho. I will happily re-include it with the other variations. It's comforting to know that I wasn't totally in the wrong. ThunderBrine (talk) 20:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Hedgehog

I found this two sources that mentions the hedgehog as the unatested sign of the Bulgar calendar instead of the monkey, however I0m doubtful of how reliable they are. Any thoughts?

• http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccsenet.org%2Fjournal%2Findex.php%2Fjsd%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F50507%2F27137&usg=AOvVaw3LCfz9ss01g4OEPkkOoDFX
• http://shakadvipa.blogspot.com/2012/03/normal-0-21-false-false-false-bg-x-none.html

--Dereck Camacho (talk) 10:56, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Problem with the current version of this article

Why is the "History" and "Origin" of the Chinese zodiac so poor in the current version of this article? Can't we do better than this? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 22:59, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Who changed the month dates?

The Chinese month dates have changed. Month of the Snake began on May 5 and now it's showing as starting on May 7. Why? How? What's the authentic start for each month? 2405:201:4009:7189:E5F4:4FD2:5BEC:E698 (talk) 17:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Someone has changed the contents of this page, it needs to be fixed before people get mad

Apparrently someone has changed introduction recently, ie: 'Chinese Zodiac' has been changed to 'Lunar Zodiac', originated in China changed to originated in Korea, Chinese calender changed to Korean Calender.

I do not know who would make such a immature move, it reeks the smell of trolling but it is obvious that the said person is trying to incite grieviance between Chinese and Korean. Please just stop and can we get someone to change the content back to what it supposed to be. Dilidala (talk) 06:45, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done This vandalism (all by a single IP) has been reverted. General Ization ^Talk 06:48, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Korean and Chinese netizens are already constantly fueled by data praying, incorrect sources of information that tries to incite hate and generates revenue. The last thing people need on the new year eve is a troll on wikipedia. Dilidala (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Just as I expected. Those korean nationalist really have no shame. I am waiting for them to change the "english" to something else because, according to them, english is not only spoken in england so the name must changed Someone97816 (talk) 09:44, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Feb 2nd animal 49.185.181.244 (talk) 02:47, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Gorilla?

I'm curious about why under the Monkey, the first Decan is Gorilla, but when I follow the link on the characters next go it I'm taken to Wiktionary where I'm told the definition is Orangutan, or an unspecified ape which is most likely the Orangutan or Gibbon. Is this an error, or am I missing something? I don't know the first thing about the Chinese language, so I thought I'd ask. Anhedonic Author (talk) 00:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Concerns over accuracy of decans

I'm by no means an expert on Japanese or Chinese, but in doing some personal research using the cited sources for the decans, I've found that there are a number that don't match, and of those that don't match, I can't find them in the cited sources. For example, the Eel under the Snake sign, I can't find it in the sources. If I am mistaken I would be very happy to be corrected, but I just wanted to raise my concerns as previous edits of the decans table appear to be more accurate from what I can tell, as the information appears in the cited sources, whereas several animals listed currently I cannot find. Anhedonic Author (talk) 13:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Hours section

I've just added a new section "Hours" (perhaps the second most important aspect in Chinese astrology). The sources seem to corroborate... the first one highlights the importance of hours in CA, whilst listing each two-hour long period and the corresponding animal the person is born under. The fengshui website enables the user to calculate their hourly zodiac sign due to discrepancies between solar and standard time (as well as year, month and day) according to the time, time zone and longitude they have entered. Is there a need to revert ? Couiros22 (talk) 15:13, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

This article is about the Chinese zodiac not Chinese astrology (Chinese astrology has its own article). And the source you used for the Hours table [3] (the fengshui website) is not a WP:reliable source, and the calculations fall under WP:Original research. Some1 (talk) 15:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

regardless of whether the fengshui site is compatible to WP norms or not, the calculations are drawn from the website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Couiros22 (talk • contribs)

Calculations (that do not fall under WP:CALC) is considered WP:Original research, which is the case here. Some1 (talk) 15:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Is there a need to require a footnote ? Couiros22 (talk) 16:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Footnotes may be used to explain routine calculations, but the fengshui website calculations don't fall under routine calculations. Anyway, I noticed that the Hours table you added (the time and corresponding sign) is already in the Period column in the Chinese_zodiac#Origin_stories section. Some1 (talk) 17:02, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

...why exactly don't they fall under routine calculations though ? Couiros22 (talk) 18:10, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Calculations from this source that you'd added (https://traditionalfengshui.co.za/fourpillarssoftware.htm) aren't routine calculations, but I guess the table that you'd added were just winter/summer time conversions, which are considered routine calculations. Anyway, the Hours and corresponding signs are already in the Chinese_zodiac#Origin_stories table, so the point now is that the Hours section is redundant. Some1 (talk) 18:30, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

ok but could you explain why they aren't routine calculations ? Couiros22 (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not quite following— Are you asking why calculations from https://traditionalfengshui.co.za/fourpillarssoftware.htm aren't routine calculations? Some1 (talk) 18:38, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

yes Couiros22 (talk) 18:41, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:About valid routine calculations explains the Wikipedia definition of "routine calculations". Basically the calculations from the fengshui website aren't considered basic arithmetic or conversions. Some1 (talk) 18:55, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

basic arithmetic... that's all the 4pillars website consists of : to calculate and adjust the starting times of the hours compared to solar time (any city located right in the middle of the time zone [e.g. London] whose periods begin at the top of the hour) ; based on how far the longitude of the city is from the middle of the time zone, the times will be shifted accordingly up to 30 minutes (or more if located outside the main time zone span) earlier if city is located further east and later if further west. How does that differ from basic arithmetic ? Couiros22 (talk) 07:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Are we talking about the same website? The Four Pillars software (https://traditionalfengshui.co.za/fourpillarssoftware.htm) doesn't do time conversions... apparently it calculates the "Conception, Hour, Day, Month, Year, Life, Lucky Periods, 9 Star Ki and Ming Gua..." of a certain date inputted. Some1 (talk) 14:40, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

the website calculates the exact starting times of each zodiac-hour period for any given city e.g. for London (O GMT, located middle of time zone) the hours are equal to those of solar time, but for Dublin, located 6.25° further west, each zodiac period begins 25 minutes later (30 x 6.25 / 7.5) Couiros22 (talk) 16:03, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Chinese calendar table too bloated

Instead of the dates looking like this:

1 | Feb 05 1924–Jan 23 1925 | Feb 02 1984–Feb 19 1985
2 | Jan 24 1925–Feb 12 1926 | Feb 20 1985–Feb 08 1986

I suggest we do

1 | Feb 05 1924 | Feb 02 1984
2 | Jan 24 1925 | Feb 20 1985

This reduces word wrapping in an already busy table. It's not helpful to mention in each of the cell what one day before the date in the cell below is. --Nidaana (talk) 07:16, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

moreover, the end of the year corresponds to the starting point of the following one (the exact time of the new moon) --Couiros22 (talk) 10:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

how were zodiacs actually made? (googled)

Starting with,how were zodiacs made in the chinese religion? The division of the ecliptic into zodiac signs originates in babylonian astronomy during the first half of the 1st millennium BC. Basically the Babylonian draws stars and constellations to represent each zodiac sign

in conclusion of this paragraph, zodiacs were created around 1000 BC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cancerzodicsign (talk • contribs) 15:39, February 13, 2024 (UTC)

This text seems to be closely paraphrased from the article Zodiac.

This division of the ecliptic into zodiacal signs originated with Babylonian astronomy during the 1st millennium BC. Babylonian astronomers divided the ecliptic into 12 equal "signs".

If you're going to closely paraphrase content from Wikipedia, you need to give attribution. Saying "googled" is an indicator that this is not your own work so I wouldn't consider it plagiarism exactly, but it's not sufficient attribution of the source. See Copying within Wikipedia. All you really need to do is say "I copied this from Zodiac with modifications." or something along those lines. — W.andrea (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: MIT 398 Intercultural International Communication

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2024 and 2 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yuntingzhan (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Yuntingzhan (talk) 11:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)