Talk:Black people in Japan

Shirt

Why does he have a Steelers jersey though? 2600:387:F:E30:0:0:0:5 (talk) 06:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment on Yasuke

Comments needed concerning the historical figure Yasuke. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Yasuke#Request_for_comment_on_samurai_terminology natemup (talk) 03:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Links to historians who read from the Bible that are legitimized historical events.

Japan In Bible Prophecy

https://www.youtube.com/live/_Q-fuveMVvs?si=Rkw4V0AdOPCJuAY0 Warsun99 (talk) 04:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Misconceptions of Yasuke are to be at hear. Yasuke was not from Africa this is a racist concept to mislead people into believing Moors which Yasuke was come from Africa. However, Africans can all remember their tribes an their tribal names.An are most often marked with specific designs on their body to identify them.

They are, as a matter of fact described in the book (Russian Icons) Moors come from Europe or as described Europa which is its original name. After the Capirote. Yasuke was moved from Russian in which was Jesuits course was to sell supply's and weapons to Japan.

Many Israelites which are Moors where then sold to the Japanese as captives. In this position of captivity they where unchained an given work to rebuilt the country of Japan. Which is why most Palaces and buildings use Israelite wood slot works, Slot systems,Brick works, Blacksmithing, Steel craft, Multi-color dresses, Flower designs on dresses,as well as other patterns, Chime,and Bells, Clocks, watches,Radio, Mechanical wagons, an other inventions came from. Yasuke was not unedjucated an understood many things. Business, Agriculture and combat.

Yasuke was then given the position of Samurai as the first Samurai. Note: Committing Suicide by chopping off ones head did not come from the first Samurai it came after 200 years later. Note. Only the Israelites where Samurai and Ninja until the 1800s. Not before. Legends of the Samurai an their families of Moor where later described as the ONI. Fairy tales of them coming down from the mountains to scare children to work hard to behave themselves was passed on. Warsun99 (talk) 03:17, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Yasuke has an RfC

Yasuke has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. RomeshKubajali (talk) 23:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Wrong information of Yasuke to be corrected; He didn't achieve a status as a Samurai.

There are only a few lines of historical records about Yasuke in total as a primary source. Those are from following three documents: Shin-Chō-Kouki(信長公記), written in 1610 which is a chronicle of Nobunaga's life; Ietada diary(家忠日記) written by Ietada Matsudaira（松平家忠）, a vassal of the Tokugawa clan during 1575-94; and "Jesuit Annual Report of Japan" written by a jesuit missionary, Luís Fróis in 1582. The first record only states that Nobunaga employed him as a porter and gave him a few stipends after Alessandro Valignano gave Yasuke to Nobunaga. In addition to this, the second one (diary) simply records physical characteristics of Yasuke. The third one depicts how Mitsuhide Akechi （[[1]]）decided to treat Yasuke immediately after Nobunaga died. From these materials, it is clear that there is no fact that Yasuke achieved the status of a samurai.

First of all, the crucial point is that when a lord Nobunaga died, if Yasuke was a samurai and one of liegemen close to Nobunaga, he should be killed at the same time or he should commit seppuku. But it's written in the Jesuit Annual Report of Japan that, Akechi said "This black guy is a beast (an animal, not a human), he doesn't know anything, and he's not Japanese, so I won't kill him" and let Yasuke go, saying, "Leave him with an Indian priest"

Second important point is that Yasuke was not given a surname, which a "real" samurai would have had.

Moreover, if he had achieved some military exploits as a samurai, there would have been some kind of records left (like other Sengoku warlords), but none of such remains.

For these reasons, it is a commonly held opinion among Japanese that Yasuke was not a samurai. In other words, Yasuke did not do anything worthy of records, and that's why most Japanese people have not cared about his existence much. Japanese historican Dr. Yuichi Goza concluded that Yasuke was "in fact Nobunaga’s porter and a kind of entertainer". ([弥助問題「本人は芸人のような立場」「日本人の不満は当然」　歴史学者・呉座氏に聞く])

Whilst the theory "Yasuke was a samurai" quickly spread overseas due to the book written by Thomas Lockley and due to the falsification of English Wikipedia's "Yasuke" entry.

The latter was also actually done by Lockley himself spending more than 10 years- citing his unpublished book (then after publishing the book, he changed that citation to the published book). In the Japanese version of his book, Lockley made a small disclaimer, saying that most parts of his book are mere conjecture without any historical fact-checking, in other words, it's a fiction. But in the English version, he treated those parts of his own fiction as if they were facts,writing them in assertive tone.

Regarding Wikipedia's "Yasuke" entry, there's no description that Yasuke was a samurai in Japanese page, but in English page, it's written like "served as a samurai to the Japanese daimyō Oda Nobunaga for a period of 15 months between 1581 and 1582", which had been obviously edited by Lockely using the pseudonym Tottoritom, and it's still there (now that English page got locked (non-editable)...probably because of the flood of criticism against his fabrication?).

This has led to huge misunderstandings about Yasuke among many foreigners.

Not only video games, movies, and musicals have been made based on his fiction, but also new Yasuke stories based on Lockley's books have been made- for example, other novels written by other "foreign" authors who don't speak or read Japanese, either not study Japanese history in an accademic/objective manner. And most of these claim to be　"historically accurate" or "true to the real history" even though they are just a fiction. Also some TV shows including BBC, saying "non-fiction" which is not true.

Even worse is that this falsification has been used by some activists to degrade other groups of people. In Japan, this is viewed as a very problematic issue. Even Japanese Diet members have begun investigating this matter. Lockley works at Nihon University, but now he has been hiding himslf from the public since the issue was discovered in the spring of this year. Penpengusa10 (talk) 12:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

• OK, Penpengusa10, thank you for participating in discussion. Now stop removing sourced content please. Drmies (talk) 17:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

  What "sourced content" do you mean? Penpengusa10 (talk) 23:13, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

If you have complaints about the Yasuke page, the appropriate place to address them is Talk:Yasuke. Please do not try to circumvent the RFC over there by edit-warring on this article. As an aside, please stop editing your own comments when they have been replied to already (WP:TALK#REVISE). CambrianCrab (talk) 18:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

1) Japapese ”弥助 (Yasuke)”page has got concensus: There is no description as "Yasuke was a Samurai" or such. Its concensus was determined after the discussion with others including those foreign editors who refered to "seemingly reliable" sources in English page.

2) Whilst English Yasuke page DOESN'T HAVE CONCENSUS Yet but it's LOCKED without evaluating the objection from Japanese historians. English page is LOCKED and we cannot OVERTUNE the content even though we already argued them on Talk Yasuke. They don't change it no matter how much we argued. It appears to us that they try to eliminate the objections and insist on keeping false remark like "Yasuke achieved a status as a Samurai". I mean Talk Yasuke doesn't work at all.

To understand the situation more, please take a look at the interaction with Toweli

For this "Black people in Japan" page, I strongly suggest you not to have false information about Yasuke.

So, I'll give you back exactly what you told me here. Please do not revert it again. Penpengusa10 (talk) 09:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)