Talk:Anne of Brittany

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 12 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jdawson1925. Peer reviewers: Hhalpern2412.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

• "semi-Salic law" is an odd invention.--Wetman 18:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

In actuallity, the sons of Edward IV of England did not 'disspear' until after 1485. If he did 'disspear' strangely no-one - not even Henry VII -mentioned it! 58.166.76.1 10:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC) Jim Jacobs.

What is the problem with the horrific changing of verb tense throughout the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.150.66 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Holy crap there's some awful grammar in this article. Needs a serious looking at to fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.247.135.31 (talk) 13:58, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Regent of France

I have heard that Anne was the Regent of France during the absence of her husband in 1494-1495 (during her first marriage) and in 1499-1503 and 1509-1513 (during her second marriage). I have not found this in the article. If it is missing, was it true? Or is it simply missig in the article? If she really was regent, then it is very notable to include. --85.226.47.128 (talk) 17:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

You may have confused Anne of Brittany with her sister-in-law, Anne of France. Anne of France was a regent of France. Surtsicna (talk) 18:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, princess Anne of France was regent in France during the minority of her brother. But I distinctly remember, that the queen of France, Anne of Brittany, was regent in France during the absence of her two husbands; when they participated in the wars in Italy. At least in 1494-95. However, it was a long time ago I read about it, so I cant include this myself as I don't remember the reference. I have not read the article in wikipedia before and just assumed that it was already here, so I was suprised when I found it was not. That made me uncertain. But I don't think it is a confusion, as I remember the circumstances so well.--85.226.41.248 (talk) 11:40, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The article does say that her sister-in-law was regent during her first husbands stay in Italy. But it says nothing about who was regent during her second husbands stay in Italy. Perahps that was confused somehow. Was she regent that time? --85.226.43.107 (talk) 23:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Burial

Where was she buried?--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 02:14, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Knighthood for Women

Information at Amboise indicated Anne of Brittany established a Knighthood for Women. Anne Bolyne was one and it is said that men came from all of all over Europe to find a wife from her Knighted Women of Merit and Virtue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.194.0.109 (talk) 02:27, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Was she regent of France during her second marriage?

The article states that she was never regent of France during the absence of her first husband, Charles. However, it says nothing at all about whether she was ever regent during the absence of her second husband, Louis. He seemed to have been absent from France several years during the 1500s and the 1510s. Was she ever regent then? --Aciram (talk) 14:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 2 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) BilledMammal (talk) 14:31, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

---

• Anne of Brittany → Anne, Duchess of Brittany
• Claude of France → Claude, Duchess of Brittany

– Both Anne and Claude were Queens consort of France and sovereign Duchesses of Brittany. Per WP:NCROY they should be titled as {Monarch's first name and ordinal}, {Title} of {Country}. Estar8806 (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn’t mind, but, it does seem like a trivial matter by virtue of the fact that the other nobles on wiki are without it. Okiyo9228 (talk) 22:48, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose both per WP:COMMONNAME. I don't actually think WP:NCROY supports this at all. Let's see what it actually says:

"If there is an overwhelmingly common name, use it: William the Conqueror, John Balliol, Peter the Great, Henry the Fowler, Mary, Queen of Scots, Gustavus Adolphus, Eric of Pomerania, Charlemagne. This is in line with WP:COMMONNAME. Otherwise, kings, queens regnant and emperors and empresses regnant who are known as "first name + ordinal" (with the exceptions mentioned elsewhere) normally have article titles in the form "{Monarch's first name and ordinal} of {Country}". Examples: Edward I of England; Philip IV of Spain; Henry I of France."

- Firstly, the Duchy of Brittany is not normally treated as a sovereign country, any more than neighbouring Normandy.

-Secondly, Anne of Brittany and Claude of France are the overwhelmingly common name for them, both when only duchess and when queen.

-Thirdly, both clearly do not match the cautious wording of the last bit, as they are never known as "first name + ordinal"".

Johnbod (talk) 16:25, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

@Johnbod - Many applications of WP:COMMONNAME are where it would be hard to identify by another name (hardly ever would anyone call Charlemagne "Charles I").

On the second point, how overwhelmingly common could the be? Comparing Anne or Claude of Brittany to Mary, Queen of Scots or Charlemagne is ludicrous. Neither of them ruled a large swath of Europe, nor were the executed by their even more well-known cousin for being a potential Catholic usurper during a tense period of religious relations. Further, WP:COMMONNAME should not be an excuse to sacrifice accuracy.

On the third point, no ordinal is required and this is still the correct format per WP:NCROY, it says "When there is no ordinal, the formats John of Bohemia and Joanna of Castile or Stephen, King of England and Anne, Queen of Great Britain are used.". And the section of WP:NCROY you cited doesn't apply anyway because it specifically states "kings, queens regnant and emperors and empresses regnant". This excludes monarchs below kingly rank (Grand Dukes, Princes, Dukes, etc.). Estar8806 (talk) 15:57, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, if it doesn't apply, why did you refer to it in the nom? Johnbod (talk) 18:32, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

@Johnbod I was referring to the section regarding your third point about name + ordinal. That part of WP:NCROY doesn’t apply because of a later section based on naming conventions for the only monarchs of a country by a certain name, which I cited above.

Not every part of NCROY applies, but the general idea of titling these articles as those of Sovereigns is my main point. Taking a second look at other titles, I would also support keeping Anne of Brittany as is and moving Claude of France to Claude of Brittany. Estar8806 (talk) 03:49, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose She's overwhemlmingly known as Anne of Brittany per COMMONNAME. Adding in "Duchess" is pointless and needlessly anti-Concission (WP:CRITERIA). Oh wait, has the nom dropped this? DeCausa (talk) 08:20, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

  @DeCausa I haven’t formally dropped it, but I would also be amendable to leaving Anne of Brittany as is.

  Claude is a bit more complicated because she was the daughter of a French King and hence “of France”, but I would still argue that Brittany be mentioned since she was suo jure duchess, so I would support her being the only move to Claude of Brittany. The only way that I could see both being included is Claude of France, Duchess of Brittany but that isn’t in line with WP:CONCISE. So my best idea apart from as nominated would be Claude of Brittany. Estar8806 (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

  Of course what you may be amenable to is not particularly relevant. Anne of Brittany is primarily know as Anne of Brittany in reliable sources. That's all that needs to be said for this article. (As it happens Claude of France is priimarily know as Claude of France, so I wouldn't expect any change there, but that's irrelevant.) You don't seem to understand the role of WP:COMMONNAME. DeCausa (talk) 22:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.