Talk:Abortion in Georgia (U.S. state)

Post-Dobbs pregnancy related deaths: Misleading statement

The line "The hospital waited too long to provide a dilation and curettage due to Georgia's abortion ban, which classified the procedure as a felony." is misleading and false.

The WSAV article being referenced pulls its information from the initial report by Propublica which states that the D&C procedure was criminalized by GA abortion law.

However, the Washington Examiner and the Abortion Defense Network both state that D&C are not restricted by the referenced abortion laws and are specifically excluded by the state's definition of abortion. On top of this, the ultrasound Thurman received confirmed that both of her twins were deceased-additionally distancing the required D&C from the defined terms of an abortion.

My intent is to remove the portion of the statement after the word "curettage" and beginning with the word "due".

ProPublica: https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Abortion Defense Network: https://abortiondefensenetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Georgia_ADN-Know-Your-State_Feb-2024.pdf

Washington Examiner: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/3161886/fact-check-harris-blames-womans-death-georgia-abortion-law/ Bbfacts (talk) 13:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Misleading Line relating to Post-Dobbs related deaths

The following line is misleading: "In Georgia, a D&C abortion is a felony, unless it is performed under certain circumstances, and a doctor can face up to 10 years in jail for performing it."

Per the sources below, a D&C is specifically separate from the acts required to terminate a pregnancy.

In Thurman's case, the D&C was not an act of abortion, as her pregnancy had already been terminated by the pills she had taken previously, and therefore falls into the "circumstances" that would allow for the procedure to be performed without threat of criminal prosecution.

The short version is that the "circumstances" referenced that would allow for this procedure to be legal are in fact the only circumstances that apply to Thurman-making the line in question extremely misleading.

E.g. Apples are poisonous to humans except in specific circumstances.

In the same way, this is misleading because the applicable circumstance/norm is being framed as an exception.

The line in question should be removed. The only other appropriate action would be to greatly expand the line to properly explain the applicable legislation. However, this section is not the proper location for such an expansion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbfacts (talk • contribs) 21:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, and in fact would remove the entire section. There is simply no evidence that either Thurmon's or Miller's death was proximately caused by Georgia's abortion laws, let alone by Dobbs. Nor is there any reason to believe that the 0.016% increase in infant mortality (which was statistically significant only for white or Native American male infants) is the result of any abortion law or policy, and no cited source suggests even the possibility of a causal relationship.

GA code defines abortion as: "the act of using, prescribing, or administering any instrument, substance, device, or other means with the purpose to terminate a pregnancy with knowledge that termination will, with reasonable likelihood, cause the death of an unborn child" [emphasis mine]. Both Thurmon and Miller had ended the life of their unborn child well before they died, making GA law irrelevant. The cited review of Thurmon's case never states, or even considers that the failure of medical staff was in any way attributable to state law. Miller overdosed on opiates, and it's almost certainly her violation of drug laws that most clearly caused her death. And if Thurman, her doctors, or Miller were ignorant of the law, neither their ignorance nor their subsequent actions are attributable to the law—and none of their stories meets this article's standard of inclusion. It's akin to including in an article on drunk-driving laws the case of a man killed running across a highway who, if only he'd better understood the law's BAC limits would have instead been driving home from the bar where he'd had only a single drink.

In short, nothing in this section is connected to Georgia abortion law other than by supposition or innuendo on the part of the cited source and/or the editors who have, no doubt in good faith, seen fit to include it. Thanks! Ekpyros (talk) 20:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

ProPublica: https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

Abortion Defense Network: https://abortiondefensenetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Georgia_ADN-Know-Your-State_Feb-2024.pdf

Washington Examiner: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/3161886/fact-check-harris-blames-womans-death-georgia-abortion-law/ Bbfacts (talk) 20:43, 1 October 2024 (UTC)