Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season

Expansion of article

Can I create a List of 2004 Atlantic hurricane season storms and start a season summary section? I think it could and should be done. I would also like to make articles for every storm, though it has been proposed that we wait till Alex is a B-class, which it is, and the rest of the storms get as good as they can be. It we start articles for every storm, I call Tropical Storm Hermine (2004) and Tropical Storm Earl (2004), please? Icelandic Hurricane #12_(talk) 21:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Icelandic, why do you want to claim any specific article? It doesn't matter who makes the things does it? The list of storms article is a bad idea, lets not try it please. Likewise add the articles one at a time...--Nilfanion (talk) 10:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Also remember, you don't own articles. Hurricanehink (talk) 13:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Well there's 14 of the 15 storms done, Otto's the only one left.HurricaneCraze32 20:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks like everything is all done with this season!!! RaNdOm26 11:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

What does anyone think of bringing this idea back, and turning the current article into more like that of 2003 and 2005 AHS articles? --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are still here, I think it is a good idea. Especially since I don't think this is FA quality as it is with the major lack of references. I wouldn't even pass it as GA with so many sections having 1 or less sources. Again, it would improve this greatly if that was done. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 16:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The section for Tropical Depression Ten has no references, and it seems too short (like many others in the article). I notice that Cyclone Catarina has no proper home in any of the season articles, so it could probably be included in this one. Potapych (talk) 16:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

See South Atlantic tropical cyclone. -- RattleMan 23:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I already added Catarina to the article, but it was undone in about five minutes. 32ieww (talk) 22:52, 7 January 2017 (UTC) 32ieww (talk) 22:52, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Season summary

2004 North Atlantic tropical cyclone statistics

Storm name	Dates active	Storm category at peak intensity	Max wind (mph)	Min. press. (mbar)	Landfall(s)			Damage (millions USD)	Deaths
					Where	When	Wind (mph)
Alex	July 31 - August 6	Category 3 hurricane	120	957	none			7.5	1
Bonnie	August 3 - 13	Tropical storm	65	1001	St. Vincent Island, Florida	August 12	45	1.27	3 (1)
Charley	August 9 - 14	Category 4 hurricane	150	941	Playa del Cajio, Mexico	13 August	120	16000	15 (20)
					Cayo Costa, Florida	August 13	150
					Punta Gorda, Florida	August 13	145
					Cape Romain, South Carolina	August 14	80
					North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina	August 14	75
Danielle	August 13 - 21	Category 2 hurricane	110	964	none			0	0
Earl	August 13 - 15	Tropical storm	50	1009	none			?	0
Frances	27 Aug - 8 Sept	Category 4 hurricane	145	936	San Salvador Island, Bahamas	Sept 2	125	9600	7 (42)
					Cat Island, Bahamas	Sept 3	115
					Eleuthera, Bahamas	September 3	110
					Grand Bahama Island	Sept 4	105
					Hutchinson Island South, Florida	Sept 5	105
					Mouth of Aucilla River, Florida	Sept 6	60
Gaston	Aug 27 - Sept 1	Category 1 hurricane	75	985	Awendaw, South Carolina	29 August	75	130	8 (1)
Hermine	Aug 27 - 31	Tropical storm	60	1002	New Bedford, Massachusetts	August 31	40	?	0
Ivan	Sept 2 - 24	Category 5 hurricane	165	910	Pine Beach, Alabama	Sept 16	120	17200	92 (32)
					Holly Beach, Louisiana	Sept 24	35
Ten	Sept 7 - 9	Tropical depression	35	1009	none			0	0
Jeanne	24 - 29 Sept	Category 3 hurricane	120	950	near Guadeloupe	Sept 14	35	7000	3035+
					Near Guayama, Puerto Rico	Sept 15	70
					Eastern tip of Dominican Republic	Sept 16	80
					Abaco Island, Bahamas	Sept 25	115
					Hutchinson Island South, Florida	Sept 26	120
Karl	Sept 16 - Sept 24	Category 4 hurricane	145	938	none			0	0
Lisa	Sept 19 - Oct 3	Category 1 hurricane	75	987	none			0	0
Matthew	Oct 8 - 10	Tropical storm	45	997	Cocodrie, Louisiana	Oct 9	40	.03	0
Nicole	Oct 10 - 11	Tropical storm	50	986	none			0	0
Otto	Nov 29 - Dec 3	Tropical storm	50	995	none			0	0)
Season Aggregates
15 cyclones	July 31 -Dec. 3		165	910	22 landfalls			50000	3,161+ (96)

Will finish later. Note: It's based on the 2003 one, and as such, all the info from Jeanne onwards is the 2003 storm equivalent info. Someone can finish if they want. Hurricanehink (talk) 01:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, finished. Would a table like this be useful for the 2004 AHS article, or other season articles in general? Hurricanehink (talk) 19:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

More than just 2003-2005 to my opinion.HurricaneCraze32 aka Mitchazenia 22:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there's the problem with the damage totals (only centering on the first landfall), though in general I think it looks pretty good. Should it be added to the article? Hurricanehink (talk) 19:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if we can shrink Frances and Jeanne a bit.HurricaneCraze32 aka Mitchazenia 19:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The only reason they're so long is because of all of the landfalls. Hurricanehink (talk) 19:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure there isn't a way to shrink the size of the landfall thing because 5 seems to be big enough. 6 is too much.Mitchazenia V3.0 21:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not good with computer stuff, but I experimented with it a bit and there seemed to be no way to make the landfall sections shorter. I considered doing a More landfalls section after listing the most powerful landfall, though it messed up the other columns. The only way you probably would be able to do it is using the raw info from the templates and going from there, but I don't want to mess with it. Hurricanehink (talk) 21:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps shrinking the font? Titoxd^(?!?) 21:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice choice because it worked-look.MitchazeniaBob Barker's Retiring... 23:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone tell me how the deaths are supposed to add up in this table? In most mathematical system I know of, 3035 + 92 does not equal 48...

Furthermore, the damage in the table is 50 billion, but the header table says 42 billion. --Golbez (talk) 16:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I changed the damage in the infobox to be $50 billion, based on the table. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you forgot Hurricane Catarina. 32ieww (talk) 22:55, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Review

At Plasticup's request:

The main template used by Hurricanes uses incorrect bolding, see WP:MOSBOLD and all other templates. There are spaced emdashes. I still really dislike the inclusion of See also in a box at the top of the lead (WP:LAYOUT). Text squeeze between images in Seasonal activity and Deaths. Another goofy see also box at the top of "Storms". Emdashes separating date ranges in each hurricane box !!!! That means someone added emdashes to the infobox in place of endashes, and those will be on many articles !! First sentence has prose issues (The 2004 Atlantic hurricane season officially began on June 1, 2004, and lasted until November 30, 2004. These dates conventionally delimit the period of each year when most tropical cyclones form in the Atlantic basin.) The 2004 dates delimit the period each year, like 2004 = 2005 ? U.S. State of Florida is linked twice in the lead, within two sentences of each other; review all wikilinking. External jumps in the text for For the official forecasts, see:  !!!! External jumps belong in External links or citations. This is everywhere; you're sending our readers off-Wiki in every single section. WP:NBSP issues throughout. Every section violates WP:ACCESSIBILITY, the infobox should go under the main template. "Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE) Ranking", text sandwiched between boxes. "Storm names", WP:ACCESSIBILITY, I doubt that the "marked in grey" works for color blindness, but I'm not certain. Unformatted citation: May 2004 Tropical Cyclone Summary. I didn't look at the prose. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Dead link

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Dead link 3

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Dead link 5

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Dead link 6

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Dead link 7

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

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--JeffGBot (talk) 01:19, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 13:14, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• "The 2004 Atlantic hurricane season was the costliest Atlantic hurricane season, until the following year": I don't think it's ideal to have an opening statement that immediately has to qualify itself. How about "The 2004 Atlantic hurricane season was one of the costliest Atlantic hurricane seasons on record, exceeded only by the following year", assuming no other subsequent season also exceeded it.

• Good call--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  Looks like you didn't yet make this change? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "leaving severe impact" is a bit clumsy. How about "Later in August, Hurricane Frances struck the Bahamas and Florida, causing at least 49 deaths and $9.5 billion in damage".

• Done--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "The most significant storm in terms of intensity and damage": suggest "The most intense storm, and the one that caused the most damage, was Hurricane Ivan"; or "Hurricane Ivan was the most intense storm of the season, and was the storm that caused the most damage".

• That was pretty much a template sentence (one that I would copy-and-paste, then switch the storm names). Anyway, I'm picking your first suggestion.--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Impact" is overused in the lead; it's a generic word and it would be better to use a more definite word like damage when possible.

• The word "damage" is actually used more than "impact". Would affect/effect be a better synonyms?--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  Maybe this is a British English/American English issue. Looking at the lead again, I think what's bothering me is how the word is used, rather than its frequency. I think you can say "the storm had little impact on the coast", but "bringing catastrophic impact" just sounds wrong to me. Impacts are generally impacts on things, not just impacts on their own. I'll come back to this and try copyediting it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

  I looked at the lead of half a dozen featured articles on Atlantic hurricane seasons, and as I thought, they barely use the word "impact" at all. Instead, for individual hurricanes they make specific statements about what happened: "made landfall", "caused heavy rainfall", "caused devastation". They avoid making general statements about lists of hurricanes, which is hard to do without generic words like "impact". I've copyedited the lead to remove the generic uses; please revert if I made a mess of anything. I've left many more uses of "impact" in the body -- GA doesn't require the prose to be perfect, but I think this is a flaw that needs to be addressed if you plan to take this to FAC. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:20, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Forecasts of hurricane activity are issued before each hurricane season by noted hurricane expert Dr. William M. Gray and his associates at Colorado State University (CSU)": I think this needs to be more specific to the 2004 season, since Dr. Gray hasn't issued a forecast before every single season, and no doubt will stop doing so at some point.

• Nobody has ever had a problem with this. I'm not sure how to fix this. Should I just mention the year Dr. Gray began issuing forecasts and we can call it a day? For example: "Since 1984, forecasts of hurricane activity have been issued before each hurricane season by noted hurricane expert Dr. William M. Gray and his associates at Colorado State University (CSU)"--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  That works, but if it's boilerplate text from the Wikiproject I'm inclined to just leave it alone for GA, which doesn't require perfect prose. It's fairly clear. I've struck my comment, but the date wouldn't hurt. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Ivan was attributed to generating a 91 ft (28 m) wave": sense needs to be reversed. As it stands this means that generating the wave caused Ivan, not the other way around.

• Better?--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  Much. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Due to its location, Alex reached major hurricane status second farthest north in the Atlantic, after Hurricane Ella in 1973": what does "due to its location" mean? Can it just be cut?

• Yeah, just a little verbosity :P--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "The hurricane fell to tropical storm": I would think this should be either "The hurricane became a tropical storm" or "The hurrican fell to tropical storm intensity".

• I think the latter was what I meant to write. There was just a word missing.--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Six hours later, it became extratropical": not sure what "extratropical" means, unless it just means it was located outside the tropics, but since the location is Newfoundland that seems unlikely. Is there a link that could be used, or could this be explained inline or with a note?

  I see this is included in glossary of tropical cyclone terms, so perhaps a link there would be the answer.

  Actually, I linked it later in the sentence, but I moved it to that part.--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  I'm not expert in these terms, but it looks from the definition of "extratropical" here that saying a hurricane has become extratropical isn't quite the same as saying it's an extratropical cyclone, so wouldn't the glossary link be better for the first occurrence, leaving the other link for later in the sentence? Or am I misunderstanding the terms? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "In combination with strong winds and storm surge, more than 100 buildings and houses were damaged": not quite right; the conditions weren't in combination with the damaged buildings. Do you mean something like "The combination of strong winds and the storm surge damaged more than 100 buildings and houses"?

• Fixed--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Impact in Florida was extreme, with strong winds causing 2 million power outages and destroyed more than 2,439 structures and impacted over 26,749 others": verb tense changes halfway through the sentence.

• Better?--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Diffluent" is a technical word and it would be nice to either avoid it or find a suitable link. Perhaps add it to Glossary of tropical cyclone terms?
• "thousands of others were inflicted damage": looks like an incompletely edited phrase.

• Better?--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  No -- you can't say "were inflicted damage". I fixed it by recasting a couple of sentences. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:09, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Credited to a continued hostile environment, the depression did not intensify into a tropical storm": needs to be rephrased; the depression was not credited to a continued hostile environment.

• Better?--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• Is there a suitable link for "baroclinic" or "baroclinic trough"? Same question for "short-wave trough".

• "Baroclinity. I'm not sure about "short-wave trough", though.--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  Good enough. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:09, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Winds left resulted in electrical outages": looks like an incompletely edited sentence.

• Fixed--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "A larger extratropical storm absorbed Nicole on October 11": was this larger storm one of the ones in this list? If it was larger I assume it would be.

• Extratropical cyclone (in this case, "storm") was wikilinked in Hurricane Alex's section.--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• In the damage column you have five-digit figures without commas; per MOS:DIGITS you should include commas, which means for consistency this should be done for the four-digit numbers as well.

• Fixed--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• The '5737 total damage appears to be missing a digit -- it looks like it should be around $57 billion, not $5.7 billion.

• Fixed--12george1 (talk) 00:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• Per the GA criteria, this is not a requirement for GA, but I think the list of external links could be substantially trimmed per WP:ELNO.
• The checklinks tool finds several dead external links.

  Still multiple dead links. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library)

Sources look fine; images are OK. I tried to check for close paraphrasing but the ones I wanted to check are dead links, so I'll wait till those are fixed. I'll place the nomination on hold. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:08, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I've struck most of my comments. I will have a go at a copyedit, probably tomorrow. There are a couple of items above left over; the main remaining issue is the dead links using the external links checker in the GA toolbox. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:17, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• One new point I just noticed: you mention Cyclone Catarina in the lead, but not the body; it should be covered somewhere in the body of the article (and not just as a "See also" link). Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:20, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

  @12george1: Just checking in -- let me know when you'd like me to take another look at this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:29, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

  @12george1: checking in again -- are you still planning to work on this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:36, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Remaining GA issues

@12george1: since the review above has gotten a bit long and confusing, here are the remaining issues.

• The checklinks tools finds several dead links -- footnotes 5, 6, 9, 15, 27, 79, 80, 82, 83, and 88.
• Cyclone Catarina needs to be mentioned in the body since it's in the lead.
• "The 2004 Atlantic hurricane season was the costliest Atlantic hurricane season, until the following year": I don't think it's ideal to have an opening statement that immediately has to qualify itself. How about "The 2004 Atlantic hurricane season was one of the costliest Atlantic hurricane seasons on record, exceeded only by the following year", assuming no other subsequent season also exceeded it. You commented above that this was fixed, but it's unchanged in the article.
• "Six hours later it became extratropical": you link this to extratropical cyclone, but surely it should be to the "extratropical" entry in glossary of tropical cyclone terms? The meanings appear to be quite different, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:21, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• I'm gonna fix the remaining dead links. The rest of the issues should be resolved. Btw, I'm just gonna remove that Catarina bit because it shouldn't be here at all.--12george1 (talk) 03:55, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
• @Mike Christie: I have fixed the deadlinks now, as well--12george1 (talk) 04:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Everything is now fixed, so I'm passing this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Hurricane Catarina

I mentioned Hurricane Catarina in the article because it formed in the Atlantic ocean. 32ieww (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Wait, why was it undone?32ieww (talk) 22:23, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

The edit was undone by @MoneyHurricane: as Catarina is not relevant to the Atlantic hurricane season, since it formed in the Southern Hemisphere. Personally, I can see both sides off the coin but do note that Catarina is covered within the South Atlantic tropical cyclone article.Jason Rees (talk) 22:27, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

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4th costliest

We should add it's 4th costliest season below the damage. --67.85.37.186 (talk) 16:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Hurricane Karl (2004) into 2004 Atlantic hurricane season

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Fails WP:NWX due to minimal impact w/o damage or deaths. No meteorological reason for the article to exist. This could be summarized within its season section. Noah, AA^Talk 14:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support merging fish storm article. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

  Support - Karl seems to just be a case when someone made an article for it expecting severe impacts, but the storm caused minimal damage. ''Flux55'' (talk) 23:30, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

  Support merge – Not much of a met history and very little impact. This storm's story can easily be well-told in the season article. Drdpw (talk) 19:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge of Tropical Storm Matthew (2004) into 2004 Atlantic hurricane season

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Minimal damages ($305,000 is ridiculously small for a tropical cyclone), no fatalities, and the lack of notable meteorological records do not make this storm notable. Combined with its small size (12,227 bytes, 936 words; both include the lead text and other redundant information that likely doesn't merit its inclusion, even though it is verifiable), the article would be better off as a subsection of its season article. _ZZ^Z'S 17:27, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose as there is information present that might be tough to include in the main article.74.101.118.218 (talk) 21:32, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Support. Most information on Matthew's impacts can be trimmed into the main article. Tavantius (talk) 21:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: This storm made landfall and had impacts, even though only minimal, and the article is long enough to stay and also fine the way it is. I also agree with the IP user, 74.101.118.218. AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 01:35, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - the season article is just about at the word limit, and I don't think it would be better served by adding in more information for a landfalling tropical storm. Also noting for the sake of the discussion, but the user who created the discussion, Zzzs (talk · contribs), has retired. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.