Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 August 23

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August 23

Fire advice

I wasn't sure where to post this so misc seems the best bet! I live in the UK and my mam had a visit from the fire department today - they installed smoke alarms and gave her the following advice. Bear in mind my sister (her daughter obviously) is severely disabled so can't walk or talk...

'If you discover a fire, close the door to the room with a fire, call the fire brigade, go to your daughter and open the window in that room to let air in. 'DO NOT' (they emphasised this point) attempt to leave the house as most people who die in fires die attempting to leave through smoke filled rooms. You'll be safe for 15 minutes and the fire brigade will be at your house in 3-4 minutes'

My initial reaction was bewilderment, and my reaction now is fury. Can anybody comment on why staying in the house could be a better idea than trying to drag my sister out, or at least my mother getting out alone before the fire brigade arrive? I'm sure I remember visits from the fire dept at school saying you should get out of the house immediately as some fires can destroy a house in a matter of minutes. And surely letting air in would drag air through to the room, even with a shut door, and fuel the fire?

Any views/comments please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosmic joker (talk • contribs)

I anticipate the fire department's advice is good; that more people die trying to escape through smoke filled rooms, than die in a room that is not smoke filled, whilst waiting for the fire brigade to turn up. On that basis, your fury is completely misplaced. I'm not sure how many steps you can expect to take down smoke filled stairs or along smoke filled corridors before you collapse. Few, I expect. Opening the window will increase the ventilation, yes. Turn the thing around. Why do you think the fire brigade is handing out poor advice? Just for a laugh? Here's some advice on "if your route is blocked" which seems to tally (the lower panels, and the "Real Life" example). --Tagishsimon (talk)

Sheetrock walls are able to stop the spread of fire for at least a short time. If you keep yourself sequestered from the fire and the smoke, you can survivie in a burning building for some time. Older houses may not have firebreaks engineered into them. For example, fire spreads much faster in balloon framed houses. --Mdwyer 02:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I've heard that you'd want to block the bottom of the doorway with a scrunched up towel or something to prevent smoke from coming in under the door. At any rate - it's really unlikely that any of us here will know better than the fire brigade. SteveBaker 02:17, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Are they talking about don't go into a smoke filled room, if the room you're in is smoke free, even if it'll take you to an exit? -OOPSIE- 04:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I think so. I would certainly expect it to be in your interest to evacuate, if you had a clear path to do so. The problem is that people vastly overestimate their ability to survive in a smoke-filled room. To illustrate, a coworker of my brother is an electrician who was working on a fuse panel when a large electrical arc occured in the panel (he had failed to cut the power). His skin wasn't burned, but he did inhale the superheated fumes from the arc. Those destroyed his lungs and he died some weeks later in the hospital.

One odd fact is that solid wooden doors offer excellent protection against fire. Yes, they do burn through, but this takes quite a while (picture how slowly a log on the fire burns), giving rescuers plenty of time to arrive. StuRat 04:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for views and links. I should have also mentioned that my mam lives in a bungalow, they have those hollow panelled interior doors and the door to my sisters bedroom is two feet away from the exterior door. Looking at your link Tagishsimon, the advice is to stay safe if your exit is blocked which is of course good advice, but vacate the premises if your exit is clear which is even better advice! And blocking the bottom of the door if you do stay in a room sounds like a good idea. Anyway thanks all, hopefully none of us will ever have to put any of this advice into practice --Cosmic joker 13:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Hollow paneled interior doors aren't likely to hold up for more than a couple minutes, if a fire is raging on the other side. StuRat 20:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The fire advice might be based on the fact that your sister is disabled. Most fire training ask the disabled people to stay in the designated place in case of fire while others evacuate. They are supposed to notify the people evacuating so that they can tell the fire fighters where they are. How ever close a doorway looks a disabled person cannot be helped through smoke, putting both people in danger. So if your fire department has a good reaction time and you have faith in them then it is best to let them help. --Kaveri 19:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Matrixism

What is Matrixism? 4.243.34.32 01:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible you're confused with Marxism? --Mdwyer 02:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Nope - there really are a bunch of people who have turned the mythos of the movie "The Matrix" into some kind of cult religion. We used to have an article about it - but it's been deleted on the grounds that it's probably a hoax. However, you can Google for it and get lots of crazy sites. SteveBaker 02:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

To describe it briefly, it's the belief that everything we perceive is just a computer generated program, and our bodies and brains are really plugged into the supercomputer generating our apparent world. See The Matrix for the plot of the movie on which this religion is based. StuRat 04:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

There was this thread and this thread about Matrixism. I believe there was another one, but I can't find it. A.Z. 04:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I found another one, but it's not quite the one I was looking for. A.Z. 04:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to enjoy this opportunity to tell everyone that it's OK to edit the archives and continue those threads. A.Z. 04:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Apparently matrixism was deleted by the cabal. Friday (talk) 04:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That certainly seems like an inappropriate deletion to me. Here we have a legit question about a legit topic, where we once had an article, but not only has that article been deleted but it is locked against any non-Admins recreating it and we can't even see the deleted content. Clearly deletionists run amok. StuRat 05:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I hate to burst your anti-deletionist bubble, StuRat, but see User:Xoloz/Matrixism for all your non-notable religious needs. Rockpocket 07:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

With 608 Google hits it certainly seems to qualify as notable. Thus, the real reason it's deleted is something else, like that those doing deleting don't like the topic, perhaps because it has the effect of trivializing mainstream religions (if one religion is based on fiction, then might they all be ?). And shoving it into a user space is just about the same as deleting it, readers searching for it won't ever find it there. StuRat 16:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That just demonstrates that there's a small amount of internet chatter using this word. Notability would come from significant coverage in reliable sources, something that the AFDs failed to turn up. Rather than assuming bad motivations of other editors, you should consider the possibility that perhaps there aren't enough sources for an encyclopedia article on this topic. Friday (talk) 17:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Xoloz/Matrixism contains 16 references, many of which look to be "encyclopedic" and "authoritative", such as the fourth Ref: J. Gordon Melton (2007). "Perspective New New Religions: Revisiting a Concept". Nova Religio: The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions 10 (4): 103-112. ISSN 1092-6690. StuRat 18:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

608 Google hits is notable? I have "about 41,000". ;) —Tamfang 05:04, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Lots of the deletions here are inappropriate, but that doesn't stop them from happening. That's one of the many reasons I've seriously cut back on contributing to Wikipedia; why waste time writing and/or perfecting an article that some pimply sixteen year old will cause to be deleted because they've never heard of the topic?

(By comparison, we seem willing to be willing to accommodate an article about each and every anime character that ever was a gleam in an artist's mind.)

Atlant 12:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Has this really happened? Or do people just describe any deletion they disagree with in terms of "deleted because someone never heard of it"? I'm all in favor of not handing out sysop tools to 16 year olds, but I think you're making things sound far worse than they really are. Such a deletion would be routinely overturned. Friday (talk) 13:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it has really happened (although I don't remember the topic(s) right now; I actively try to forget things that really, really piss me off) and the AfD reason was basically just as bold as I've suggested: "I've never heard of this".

And yes, an alarming number of our sysops are children, either actually or mentally.

Atlant 15:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Philosophical falacies abound on Wikipedia: It is worth noting that philosophically there is nothing wrong with appointing sysops tools to 16 year olds, or anyone younger/older for that matter; there is nothing that says that as you turn 18 (or insert applicable age here) that you are suddenly equipped and just in your capabilities. Sysop privilages should be based on integrity and demonstrated suitability, etc. This is to further say, that the person/people that deleted or voted to delete Matrixism probably wasn't/weren't 16 year-olds; they were probably in their 30s or 40s. In fact a 16 year-old would -- using this stereotype -- probably voted to keep. Rfwoolf 16:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading in some news source that more than 1 person has used an insanity defense, in one instance in a capital case, that was somehow based on the defendants' belief in the reality of The Matrix (unsuccessfully if I recall correctly). Too lazy to look for it though. 38.112.225.84 05:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone. I did the Google search and found this. Why doesn't this article come up when I search Wikipedia for "Matrixism"? 4.242.18.96 07:10, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Because the subject of the article is not considered notable enough to part of the encyclopaedia, it has been "userfied" (transferred to the user page of an editor). Rockpocket 07:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand. From the looks of the article Matrixism is a lot more notable than many things I find on Wikipedia. That's one of the good things about Wikipedia. I can find information on topics that I can't find anywhere else. Otherwise wny not just use Encyclopedia Britanica or World Book? 4.242.18.96 07:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The community disagreed three times over (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matrixism and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matrixism (2nd nomination)). I agree that it doesn't look that bad compared to other nonsense you come across (like Redpill, for example), but that isn't the best of arguments to keep something, per WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Rockpocket 08:06, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The original ~vote was 6 to move and/or redirect to The Matrix and only 2 to delete (both of which seemed to be jokes). Why then was it deleted and not redirected ? I would redirect it myself except I can't because Matrixism is locked down by Admins. StuRat 17:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, is this a reference desk question, or is it a WP:DRV discussion/endrun? I question the motivations of the IP editor who initiated this conversation in light of their followup comments, and the latter seems to be the case. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 14:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It's just one of our Golden Oldies, Chairboy, the links A.Z. pointed out are by no means the only times this question was raised here. Ignoring it would probably be the best thing to do. But here is some more enlightening discussion for those fascinated by this type of new religious movement. ---Sluzzelin talk 17:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The One

In the 2001 film The One starring Jet Li, how did they film the fight sequences where jet Li was fighting himself? Did they record the film in two shots and combine the two? Thanks. Acceptable 04:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I think from memory they just digitised his face onto a stunt double. I saw the making of this film and was blown away how good the computer effects were. I knew they used a lot of computer graphics but one of the main fight scenes when he escapes in that car park by beating up all the SWAT type cops, that scene was shot with JUST Jet Li, there were no other actors, all the SWAT guys are purely computer graphics inserted later! Jet Li was punching green tennis balls hanging off strings to get the placement right.. Well, in fact, even the tennis balls were not there during the shooting, but that's another completely different story about how good Jet Li is. Vespine 05:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Digital face replacement. SteveBaker 16:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

House numbers

I'm from the Dutch Wikipedia and I have a question. How are the houses numbered in the UK / USA? 1, 3, 5 on one side, starting from the west, or how does it go? DimiTalen 08:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In general the uk has odd numbers on one side of the street and even numbers on the other. I'm not sure why. Not sure about US. I know some places miss out numbering a house 13 because, well, because people are nutcases and the fear of the number can devalue the house (crazy I know). ny156uk 08:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Some streets have 1,2,3 up one side, when it gets t the end, the numbers go down the other side of the street. Some roads will not have house numbers at all (eg in small villages), with all the houses having names. DuncanHill 09:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

U.S., same thing, odd numbers on one side even on the other. 38.112.225.84 09:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

One sometimes hears a claim that odd numbers are "normally" or even "always" found on (say) the south and west, but I've seen every possible combination. On the border of Oakland and Berkeley, California, the rules flip in every possible way: Berkeley numbers count from the northwest, Oakland numbers (in that area) count from the southeast, and the odd-even convention swaps sides. —Tamfang 17:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

As for where the numbers start, in most cases that I've seen, number 1 will be the one closest to the town centre or something similar. 81.83.82.123 09:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Have just discovered we have an article at House numbering. DuncanHill 09:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Like Ny156uk, I'm not sure why either, and the article doesn't discuss this system's advantages. I guess I'm biased, but it seems easier to gauge approximately where a given house number will be, especially in the case of long streets. What 81.83.82.123 wrote is true for my city where every street's number count starts at the end of the street closer to one of the city's most famous central squares and traffic hub points. It's also good to know on which side of the street a house will be. Sorting mail is fast when the deliverer can cross the street, and takes one additional step (odd/even) when the street can't be crossed. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Just realized that the mail doesn't need to be sorted differently. The mailman just needs to skip the odd ones. Enough unreferenced speculation. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Numbering also often starts at water. Berkeley, California is unique in my experience: numbering runs east from the water and south from the county line. The town center is at about 2000 each way. —Tamfang 17:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In areas of the US that have a very regular geometry, you will often find that the "most significant digits" of a house/building address quantify what block the building is located in. So "1234" or "12-34 Foo Street" is in the 12th block on the "even" side.

Another interesting datum is that in older areas, you'll find addresses like "12½ Fancy Street" where a newer building was sandwiched in between 12 and 14.

Occasionally, when addresses have gotten too odd (e.g., "the Farley Farm on Winding Lane"), some official organization (often the fire company) will force a rationalization of addresses and everybody gets a modified address ("314 Winding Lane, the old Farley Farm"), confusing everyone for decades afterwards. —Atlant 13:06, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

When we lived in New Zealand,they built some new houses halfway down the road.Instead of having to come up with a whole new name for them or use 99a,99b etc. they just numbered them accordingly and shifted everyone else along. We went from being No 158 to being No 198 to include the new houses. When in Canada,I noticed that the numbering in this particular neighborhood hopped up in tens-you had 121,next door was 131,next was 141... —Lemon martini 15:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In the Midwest where I grew up, numbers start a new "hundred" on each block, but within the block the numbers go by twos; I lived at 507, my neighbors going south were 509, 511, and then across the street was 601. Here in California, it seems more usual for the numbers to be spread out so that the distance between any two buildings on one street is roughly proportional to the difference between their addresses, so awkward insertions are unnecessary. —Tamfang 17:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Most of the US and Canada places I have seen, it's odd on one side, even on the other, with the possible exception of circles where it's all one side, sort of. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that #58 is between #5 and #61 on the same side of the street for no apparent reason. Gzuckier 17:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In general, in the US, lots are numbered, not houses. I can't remember how many lots qualify for a city block, but let's just say 10 for round numbers. Even though there are 10 lots in a block, if there are only three houses, they won't be numbered 1, 3, 5, they'll be numbered by which lot in the block the house is located on. My grandparents' property covered four lots, and when it was subdivided, no new numbering was required, the new houses just took the lot number that they stood on. Still, there are cases where there is more than one house on the same lot. I lived in a house in Southern California where there were two houses on the same lot, one in the front of the lot and one in the back. They had the same street number, but were differentiated as A and B. My other grandparents owned a lot with two houses on it, and one was numbered 2130 and the other was 2130 1/2. Corvus cornix 18:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That's not universally true. When our home was about to be build here in Texas, we purchased the lot and I decided to 'stake my claim' by putting up a mailbox. Not realising there was anything special to be done, I had someone carve me a really beautiful house number using the 'lot number' we'd been given. The next day there was a note from the postman in the new mailbox that said that we couldn't put up a mailbox with a number on it because our house wasn't built yet - and the house number would only be allocated to us by the post office when it was completed. So I took the mailbox down and carefully packed it away. When the house was finally built, the number they allocated us wasn't anything remotely close to the lot number. Our street has 1000 numbers per 'block' - but because they are 1 to 2 acre house lots and many of the roads 'between' the blocks have not been (nor are ever likely to be) built, there are only a handful of houses per 'block' and the numbers jump discontinuously upwards by hundreds of numbers at a time! Our house is number 1925 - our neighbour is 1233 - and there is no road between the two houses!?! I have no clue how they decided on that!

Well, that's what I was trying to say - a block is not the space between two streets or roads, it's a fixed distance. You have 1 to 2 acre house lots between roads, but that doesnt' change the fact that a lot is a fixed size, and that's why the numbers jump, because they're assigned based on where the lots are, not where the streets are. Corvus cornix 20:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In UK, the streets are divided into lots and numbered from the get-go. If there is more than one home is subsequently built on a given lot (notably, when a big house is split into two or more apartments), they add a letter - so between numbers 7 and 9, you'll see 7a, 7b and so on.

I've also heard the story that (in UK at least) house numbers go in order of increasing distance from the town hall. But since there are curved roads and roads that go right past the town hall in both directions - and town halls get demolished and rebuilt someplace else...so you'll find plenty of exceptions to that general principle. This - and the odd/even numbering thing, can both be explained quite logically. The convention would have come about when most people lived in small towns and villages. When a small village grows, it generally grows outwards. That means that some existing road with (say) 100 houses on it may get longer and then have 100 more houses. If you number from the outside of the town inwards towards the middle - you now have a problem because you need negative house numbers! So numbering from the inside towards the outside makes MUCH more sense. The odd/even thing works the same way. If you number each side of the street differently (eg starting from 1 on the left side and going up to 50 - then coming back the other side from 51 to 100 - or simply starting at 1 on one side and 51 on the other) then you can't extend the street without renumbering all of the houses. The present system doesn't cover all the bases - but it's not a bad "best guess". If you have to have a system - this one is quite well thought out.

Massed renumbering of houses is rare - but possible. A while back, my place of work in Arlington, Texas had to be renumbered because they built a new ballpark - chopping one long road in two in the process. They (stupidly) renamed one half of the road and renumbered both halves! The result was a HORRIBLE mess with people forgetting to tell suppliers about the new number - goods and mail being shipped to the wrong warehouse...just a nasty, nasty situation. It makes a lot of sense to avoid that kind of thing like the plague! I firmly believe that if they have to do that, they should always rename both streets so that the postman can tell when the old address is still being used.

SteveBaker 19:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

My own dwelling has a mild case of stupid numbering. It's in a condo with its own street, where each roof and each apartment is numbered. Let's say I'm "19 Tamfang Court #17" (not the real name or number). A few years ago I replaced my water-heater and had to have a city inspector in to certify the work. The dispatcher neglected to write "#17" and so the inspector came around at the appointed time, knocked at apartment #19, found no one home. Twice. Life would be slightly easier if my unit were simply "17 Tamfang Court" (the apartment numbers are unique throughout the complex). —Tamfang 20:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In parts of Wisconsin (the only place I've ever seen this), some addresses look like - S74 W14652 Woodman Road, or N82 W19354 New Hope Road. I suppose they are fairly descriptive of the precise location of the building, but to me they look like somebody dropped a cat on the keyboard. I've never found a good explanation of what the zero-point would be for those numbers. --LarryMac | Talk 20:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Odds are, they're based on the Public Land Survey System. --Carnildo 22:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Say, are the numbers consistent in Baarle? —Tamfang 20:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In nearby Reading, Pennsylvania, there is a general system of odds on one side and evens on the other. Unfortunately, this system forces the use of numbers such as 1482-1/2 when a property has been razed and replaced by two houses. Also, the city uses numbered streets between 1 and approximately 25. Unfortunately, there are also numbered half streets, such as 16-1/2 Street. One of my unfortunate friends happens to live in [fake numbers] 329-1/2 North 17-1/2 Street.

Numbers begin at the edge of town with 001 or 101 on one side, and the associated even numbers on the opposite side. The first two numbers on streets signifies the nearby cross-street. For example, 1124 Pike Street is near the intersection of Pike and 11th Streets, and is opposite of 1123. Freedomlinux 22:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In some rural areas of the US, numbers reflect distance from some starting point - for example, 633 S. Boulder Road is 6.33 miles from a particular major road intersection. Geologyguy 23:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Here in Australia, it's usually even numbers on one side and odd on the other side. I know of some exceptions, but they're uncommon. Mostly the numbers in each street start from 1, as you'd expect, but in the place where I was born (Albury), the city is divided into zones, and each zone uses its own set of numbers. My street had about 50 houses, but my house was number 682. -- JackofOz 02:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

On Block Island, the fire department now requires all buildings to have an official fire department number, unrelated to the post office address, which the fire department maintains on a map so that the fire department can find them when they are on fire. Gzuckier 14:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Need info on closing a distribution center/ major office/

doing some training- need some info on the effects and ramifications of closing a DC, large office...... thanksLogisticsMan 13:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Tell us more... shutting building...sacking staff.... what ?90.9.215.252 14:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)Dt

Dog's on ships

Were dogs used to be kept roaming around the decks of ships to warn crew of stowaways, intruders and other ships coming alongside (for fear of pirate ships)and that one of the reasons they're not anymore is because of rabis, other desieses. I can't find any information on Wikipedia to back it up though I've heard it of a couple of old seafarers. Sabrina33 14:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I would think companionship and killing rats would be more likely reasons. I would expect there are still some ships with dogs on board, but probably fewer, as there are now other ways to deal with rats (like poison) and having dogs at work is generally considered "unprofessional". One exception is "helper dogs" like seeing eye dogs. StuRat 16:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Schipperke#History, Newfoundland dog#History I don't see how a dog on a boat would get rabies, though.Gzuckier 17:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Rat bites. Corvus cornix 18:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think rats are common carriers of rabies. Certainly, mice and squirrels and so on aren't, even though they are susceptible, which is somewhat of a mystery why. Anyway, if you've got rabid rats on board, I'd think a dog would be a good thing to have. Gzuckier 14:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the point is suppose to be that a dog which already had rabies - but which was not yet exhibiting symptoms - might be brought to a place with no rabies and infect the local population. However, this is true for many diseases in many animals (not least, the rats) - so I doubt this would historically have been a reason for not bringing dogs aboard - even if the sailors knew or cared about the concept of spreading diseases between islands or continents. This is a somewhat bizarre concern - because except for a very few places in the world (eg in the UK), rabies has been present since long before sailing ships. Humans spreading Typhoid, etc would be a much bigger concern to anyone who cared enough. SteveBaker 19:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I doubt a dog would beat a human lookout armed with a telescope when it comes to spotting pirate boats approaching. So catching rats gets my vote too. Cyta 07:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

My old roomate had a Newfoundland, and if you pretended to drown in the pool (thrashing arms in mock distress) he would jump in and attempt to "save" you; he weight 150 lbs.+ and would try and drag you to safety. Pretty awesome. 24.18.215.108 07:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Credit

(America) I want to start building credit and was wondering if anyone had any good suggestions generally to do this? Just graduated college and began working full-time/saving money. More specifically I've heard a good thing to do is to get a credit card and use it for some monthly expense and then make sure to always pay off the balance at the end of the month, so as not to have to pay interest. True? And if I got 2 credit cards and did this with 2 expenses, always paying off at the end of the month would I "accumulate" more credit than with only 1 card? If yes, how 'bout 10? Finally, does my timely paying of my student loans every month help build my credit? Thanks for any help 38.112.225.84 14:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Obviously Wikipedia cannot offer you any sort of financial advice. However, you might want to read our credit history article. I am not sure that "accumulating" credit is the best way to think about this - a better approach is to avoid doing things that will make you look like a bad credit risk to a lender. Paying all bills on time and paying off any existing loans as quickly as possible would seem to be good things to do. Gandalf61 15:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I was also going to recommend credit history, as well as Credit score (United States). As Gandalf61 says, you are not "accumulating credit," but improving your credit score. I don't think getting ten credit cards is feasible with little to no history to start with. Paying off your loans should help, assuming that the lender you are paying reports your history to the credit bureaus. --LarryMac | Talk 15:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I once had a job in which I had to review people's credit histories for mortgage applications. We would receive a list of a person's credit agreements (eg. credit cards, bank loans, utilities bills etc), marked each month with a figure indicating if the agreement was up to date (no arrears), late (indicating how many months late) or in default. It also indicated if the applicant was registered to vote at the address they were applying from, and for how many years. A string of 0's (indicating up to date) was of course what we were looking for for a good risk. However, we would reject some application from people who had never been late, and in these cases it could be that they had no credit history, or only a short history, or in some cases that they had too many credit agreements, or that the total credit held by them was (in the banks opinion) excessive. So I would say, getting a couple of credit cards and keeping your repayments up to date (not necessarily paying off in full each month - though I would strongly recommend that to avoid interest charges) will improve your overall credit rating, however, getting 10 credit cards could damage your rating, even if you manage them all responsibly. Paying all your utility bills on time also helps, and, in the UK at least, being registered to vote is very important if you wish to get credit from mainstream lenders.

I would also add that in my experience, people living in flats may find it harder to obtain credit than people living in houses. This is simple because different companies record addresses in different formats, so you may appear eg not to be on the electoral register, or to have an electricity or telephone account at your address, as the address may have been recorded differently, eg. Flat 9, On Me Uppers House, 22 Skint Street, may also be recorded as 22 Skint Street, Flat 9, or 22/9 Skint Street, or On Me Uppers House 9, Skint Street. DuncanHill 21:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Paying your student loan on time is probably the best thing you can do to build credit. The worst thing you can do (short of defaulting on your student loan) is to pay late. --Carnildo 22:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I have on my credit report about 30 linked addresses because they record each difference as a new address even if it's just a typo or slight difference. Hence Mr L.Martini,Flat 1,Lemon House,My Road and Mr.Lemon Martini,My Flat,1 Lemon House,My Road and Mr L.Martini,Lemmon House,My Road and Mr.L.Martini,1 Lemon House,My Flat,My Road all show as being different-makes me look like I'm a wandering nomad. Lemon martini 14:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Why the hell would being registered to vote positively, or negatively, affect your credit? Seems un-American to me. 24.18.215.108 08:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind they mentioned they were in Britain. I don't know the electoral laws in the US, I don't think they do that though, since I haven't run across that advice before. Anyway, evidently the British electoral rolls indicate where you're registered as living and when you registered there, so if you've been at the same house for, say, 30 years, you're obviously either a fraud or are established there (and not likely to skip the country or something like that). 68.39.174.238 20:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

24.18..., you might want to look at Electoral_roll and Voter_registration. It seems that the difference is that in the USA, registration is the responsibility of the individual and is optional, while in the UK the government is responsible: they send out forms to every household and in theory returning them with correct information is compulsory. Bistromathic 11:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

xchinese food imports

I was looking for a list of brand names that used or were imported from China. especially food like bread (L'oven fresh?) ketchup etc... and I was curious where the products were sold at like Aldi or Walmart etc... I cant find any info on the net

The list would be very long if it existed, as there are hundreds of such brands. However, many of these brands are sourced from multiple countries, so that some of the product comes from China, but some of it comes from the Philippines or elsewhere depending on the season or the sales location. Also, many companies marketing Chinese-made products or products with Chinese-made components want to conceal their origin from consumers, so it would be difficult to compose a complete and accurate list. Marco polo 18:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It would be easier to make a list of products NOT using made in China ingredients... --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Ross Boatman

Can someone translate this? Boatman was famously 'glassed' by a fellow pub patron after giving it the big 'I Am'. —Tamfang 17:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

See Urban Dictionary: [1] and [2]. Algebraist 17:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Excellent sentence, entirely out of place in an encyclopaedia; and unreferenced; and now gone. The IP who added the phrase has added equally interested sentences into a number of other articles; at least the first couple I checked have been reverted - see 82.110.148.166. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

For anyone wondering, it would mean something like "In a well known incident, Boatman was cut/stabbed by/with broken glass by someone in a pub, after an showing off in a loud and horrendously egotistical manner." --Dweller 10:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Generally, if someone is glassed it means that they have been hit in the face with a broken pint glass, usually one that has just been smashed for that very purpose. 80.254.147.52 15:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks all. —Tamfang 05:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Need clock that displays multiple zones

My phone has a feature that allows display of the time in 3 time zones. I would like to know if there is freeware that provides the same functionality. I have a Windows XP OS. Thanks in advance

This site lists time for major cites and has an option to define a "Personal World Clock" with only those locations which interest you: [3]. StuRat 19:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Try this link and see how you go. I haven't used any myself, so can't actually recommend one. Someone was telling me the other day that Vista has this feature built-in (not that that really helps you). --jjron 02:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Asymetric Lamp?

I have been researching a new desktop lamp for my office and came across the term "Asymmetric Lamp" typically applied to the more expensive models. The only information I could find on the stores site was that it was a superior type of lamp because "some types of reflections" does not appear in monitors and on paper.. I would like to know what these types of reflections are and why they are "bad". --77.212.38.14 19:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure, but the normal technique to avoid reflections is to bounce the light off a ceiling with flat paint. Torchieres work this way and I've also seen fluorescent light fixtures designed this way. StuRat 19:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Basically as StuRat says, the asymmetric lamps will use reflectors to bounce the light around and give you more even lighting, thus avoiding direct reflections off the monitor that you may get with normal lamps. See here if you want a long detailed description. Can't see any Wikipedia articles on it though. --jjron 03:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

myspace pics

Why do some people put their friend ID on or below their myspace pics?

Helps ID that photo as their's, making it harder for someone else to use the photo on another site and claim it is them. Dureo 12:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

that's stupid.

So it's like a copyright trap? 68.39.174.238 20:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Anonymously Receiving Snail Mail

I want to be able to receive mail or packages without having to give out my name or home address. How can I? I live in the US, where PO Boxes require photo id and real name, and even though they're supposed to only give out that info if a court orders them to, I worry a postal employee might give it out anyway. Places like UPS store seem like their employees would be even less reliable.

Any ideas? --Wouldbewebmaster 22:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You can have it delivered to:

John Smith (your name)

General Delivery

Anywhere, California 99999

Then go to the main post office for zip code 99999 and ask them for your mail. You do have to show ID, though. Corvus cornix 23:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You could have your mail sent to your attorney:

John Q. Pseudonym

c/o Sam Howe

Dewey, Cheatham & Howe, Attorneys at Law

You'll likely have to cough up a nontrivial dollar amount for this service, but I can't imagine many more reliably confidential methods (that are legal). TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Get it delivered to your work address under your job title rather than your name? (A few assumptions here of course). --jjron 03:06, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

See also The Crying of Lot 49. :-) --S.dedalus 04:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Since 1992 my legal address has been a private box in San Francisco, but it's no longer convenient for me to go to the City every week, so I went to a mail-drop in the suburban town where I now reside and was told that I'd have to show proof of residence in that town. Grr. Why should the USPS know where I sleep? Presumably this is to discourage some of the terrorists without badges. — I heard of a bloke who found a cluster of mailboxes at a trailerpark or what-have-you, put up another one beside them, and started receiving mail there. —Tamfang 05:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)