Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 November 11

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

November 11

If Venezuela means 'little venice' ...

What would a 'big venice' be called, if there were such a thing?

Adambrowne666 (talk) 11:34, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

-uela is indeed a Spanish diminutive, Adambrowne666, feminine of wikt:-uelo. One augmentative form in Spanish would be Venezón (see wikt:ón#Spanish) but I haven't found any examples of that use (there's a handful of ghits, but they seem to be other things). --ColinFine (talk) 12:40, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

That link should be wikt:-ón#Spanish. —Stephen (talk) 04:43, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

See also Little Venice, London, Little Venice, Michigan and Venice of the North (there are more than thirty) and List of places called Venice of the East (about forty). Alansplodge (talk) 15:16, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses. I'm asking the question for a novel I'm writing: there's an otherworldly city that bases itself on Venice, but flatters itself that it is superior to the original: bigger and better, stranger, richer in stink. Does this inspire anyone to more names you'd like to suggest? Adambrowne666 (talk) 06:15, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

The opposite of a diminutive is an augmentative. If Venezuela somehow derives from an Italian diminutive (looks more like a Spanish one to me, but it doesn't make that much difference, as they are fairly parallel), then I suppose maybe Venezione?

The problem is that Italian (and I think also Spanish) augmentatives carry connotations other than just size and importance, and these tend to be unflattering. The small is beautiful notion seems to be built into the Romance languages in this way. Diminutives are affectionate, whereas augmentatives carry a sense of something big and ugly or dangerous or stupid.

Depending on what you're going for in your novel, I suppose that might actually work. Only you can decide that. --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Oh, another thought: How about Veneziotto? English Wiktionary claims that Italian -otto is a diminutive, but the example is not very convincing — a giovanotto is usually someone who is not anymore that young, possibly late twenties or early thirties. And risotto supposedly derives from risum optimum, "excellent rice", though I don't have a cite for that. --Trovatore (talk) 06:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

That's a great answer, thank you, Trovatore. Today I learned that the opposite of diminutive is augmentive. Can I press you further? - can you, or others, come up with a name for a superior Venice? Adambrowne666 (talk) 07:43, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Something like "Venicissima", perhaps. Xuxl (talk) 18:52, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

La Serenissima ma anche di piu`. Or maybe La Serenissimissima. :-) --Trovatore (talk) 18:56, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Trovatore and Xuxl - i had to look up La Serenissima ma anche di piu - 'Venice but even more' - I reckon I will actually use it somewhere, but as a sort of nickname for the city; and it is the sort of novel where I'd get away with a gag name like La Serenissimissma, but it would work only in passing, referring to some weird city on another world that's mentioned once and not again - hapax legomena - still looking for a convincing, cool name. Only if people are interested, of course. Thanks again. Adambrowne666 (talk) 03:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

On shortened or full personal names

Sometimes people call each other by a name other than what they were introduced with. I've noticed a gender difference. It seems like men call other men a shortened version of their names to show familiarity, which is obvious and expected. But women call men, more than sometimes, the longer version of their given name to show familiarity or affection. What's this about? Temerarius (talk) 17:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't know the answer, but will point out that it's an awfully muddy area. My full first name is "Mathew", but I've always hated it and always go by "Matt". When the guys at work want to use a nickname, they go with "Matty". But is "Matty" an augmentative version of "Matt" or a diminutive of "Mathew"? Neither? Both? While you're researching, the word Hypocorism may come in handy. Just out of curiosity, was your question triggered by the final season of House of Cards? It was a point of conversation in a couple of episodes. Matt Deres (talk) 18:40, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Matt is a diminutive or nickname of Mathew or Matthew, and Matty can be a diminutive for both. The Hall of Fame pitcher Christy Mathewson, who was born Christopher Mathewson, was called by two diminutives: "Christy" and "Matty". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:42, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Matty can be the pet name of Matthew or of Madison (Madison means son of Matthew). There is also Mattie, which is the pet name for Martha, Madeline, or Matilda. A lot of my male ancestors were named Madison and went by Matty. My grandmother was Matilda, or Mattie. Then there is Maddy and Maddie, pronounced like Matty and Mattie, and which are short for Madison or Madeleine. —Stephen (talk) 05:09, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

"Maddie" also. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:22, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Interesting that a major character in the original UK series of House of Cards was a woman named Mattie Storin. It was never explained what the origin of her name was. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)