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Shawn Michaels

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because… I want to know what needs to be done, so the article can become an FA.

Thanks, --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Wrestlinglover's comments

edit
    • Lead
  • "formerly the World Wrestling Federation on its Raw brand." I believe a coma should go between Federation and on.
  • change - "This group of wrestlers was known for pushing the envelope." to "This group of wrestlers were known for pushing the envelope."
  • change - "In 2006, Hickenbottom and Triple H briefly reformed DX, but he then returned to singles wrestling." to "In 2006, Hickenbottom and Helmsley briefly reformed DX, but after a injury left Helmsley inactive Hickenbottom returned to singles wrestling."
    • Well, in 2006 Triple H went by "Triple H" and not "Helmsley".
      • You have him as Helmsley earlier in the lead, it would be better to continue with Helmsley until he changes his name in the article. Since there is no "(Triple H)" besides Helmsley in the beginning of the lead so people might be wonder who he is.
  • Maybe you should explain what a Grand Slam Championship is. It might just be me but I believe that needs to be explained either in the lead or later in the article if it is not already mentioned.
    • Well, I'm not sure about explaining it in the lead, but, there's no mention of him being GSC in the article.
      • Explained in the article.
Okay, I'll have more comments coming tomorrow since I got sidetracked from what I was doing when I wrote these.--WillC 10:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done and thanks for the comments. But, left some of my own. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • Can you find a reference for this sentence?: "He knew he wanted to become a professional wrestler at the age of twelve."

Career

  • Early career (1984–1988)
    • Remove the Guerrero in Chavo Guerrero, Sr's real name. You have "Chavo Guerrero, Sr. (Salvador Guerrero Llanes)", to me it should be "Chavo Guerrero, Sr. (Salvador Llanes)".
    • Change - "They were fired from WWF two weeks later, however, for a bar incident (a misunderstanding, according to Michaels' autobiography)." to "They were fired from WWF two weeks later for a bar incident (a misunderstanding, according to Michaels' autobiography)." I do not believe However is needed, to me it makes it sound awkward.
    • Commissioner (1998–1999)
      • "In 1998, Michaels received a legitimate back injury in a Casket match against The Undertaker at the Royal Rumble, a match where the objective is to place the opponent inside a casket." - It would be better to explain the Casket match in a new sentence. IMO.
    • Return to wrestling and feud with Triple H (2002–2004)
    • Feud with McMahon and reformation of DX (2006–2007)
      • "Michaels said he was only being loyal to his company, he had moved on, and McMahon should move on, as well." - What is the point of the coma before as well? I don't think it should be there.
      • "The next week, Michaels won a handicap match against the Spirit Squad (Kenny [Ken Doane], Johnny [Johnny Jeter], Mitch [Nick Mitchell], Nicky [Nick Nemeth], and Mikey [Michael Brendli]) and after the match, Michaels' former partner, Marty Jannetty, came down to help Michaels from the assault by the Spirit Squad." - Remove the "and" before "after the match", and replace it with a coma.
      • God should be linked to God in Christianity since Michaels is a Chrstian and that article refers to many different beliefs systems. Well that is what I think. Your call.
      • "During Triple H's gauntlet match against the Spirit Squad, a match consisting of two wrestlers beginning the match, and replacing whenever one is eliminated (by normal means), with the last person standing being named the winner, had him compete against the Spirit Squad, Michaels came in to help Triple H, and the two did the DX "crotch chops." - Explain gauntlet in a different sentence. It is just too long to go in the middle of this one. Plus everytime I think gaunlet I think Gauntlet for the Gold.
      • "On January 15, Michaels lived up to his vow of "dealing" with Rated-RKO, when he took out Randy Orton," You never mentioned he made a vow. Please do somewhere.
    • Various feuds (2007–present)
      • "winning the first and losing the titles in the second to The Hardys (Matt and Jeff)," - Matt and Jeff should have links to their articles.
      • "Michaels lost the match, however, when Orton performed a jumping cutter for the win" - I do not believe "however" is needed.
      • Change "Michaels then lost to Batista at One Night Stand in a stretcher match, a match where the objective is to place the opponent on a stretcher at ringside and move it across a line located on the entrance ramp, thus ending their feud" to "At One Night Stand, Michaels lost to Batista in a stretcher match thus ending their feud. In a stretcher match, the objective is to place the opponent on a stretcher at ringside and move it across a line located on the entrance ramp."
  • Personal life
    • Change "He has a tattoo of a heart with a sword through it with a snake around it in the shape of an "S." to "He has a tattoo of a heart with a sword through it, that has a snake around it in the shape of an "S."
The article looks pretty good. I'll try to find time to read it again after you have everything changed from my comments and everybody else's comments as well.--WillC 08:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed/left comments. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay.--WillC 21:33, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SRX's comments

edit
Resolved comments from SRX
More later...--SRX 21:58, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Will be waiting for more. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Early career
      • After his training with Lothario, he debuted in Mid-South Wrestling in 1984 and later with Texas All-Star Wrestling (TAW) promotion. - either it has to be After his training with Lothario, he debuted in Mid-South Wrestling in 1984 and later with the Texas All-Star Wrestling (TAW) promotion. or After his training with Lothario, he debuted in the Mid-South Wrestling and Texas All-Star Wrestling (TAW) promotionsin 1984.
      • There, he and tag team partner Marty Jannetty (Frederick Jannetty) defeated The Batten Twins for the Central States Tag Team Championship, later losing it back to the Battens. - link to tag team?
      • In a raid of AWA talent in 1987, The Rockers were signed by a competing promotion: the World Wrestling Federation (WWF). - raid? what is meant by this?
        • Have no clue and has been removed.
      • They were fired from the WWF two weeks later, however, for "partying too hard" (a misunderstanding, according to Michaels' autobiography). - can an explanation be given as to what "partying too hard" means.
      • The pair were billed as "The Midnight Rockers" and held the AWA World Tag Team Championship. - so they just held it? they didn't do anything to win it?
        • Added title info.

--SRX 22:52, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More concerns? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Rockers
    • They redebuted for the WWF at a house show on July 7, 1988.[18] Due to WWF chairman Vince McMahon's desire to have his performers carry WWF-exclusive monikers, they were renamed as simply "The Rockers. - who is they? (you are starting a new section remember) what is a moniker in this case?
    • The team was a mid-card stalwart of television and pay-per-view shows for the next two years, but never seemed to get a chance at the WWF Tag Team Championships. - sounds like POV, sounds like you are stating that they never seemed to get a chance.
    • I removed the "never getting the chance at the tag titles".
    • The match was taped with The Rockers winning the belts, but soon after, Neidhart came to a stopgap agreement with management and was rehired. - stopgag?
    • The Rockers plodded along, eventually splitting on December 2, 1991 during an incident on Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake's (Edward Leslie) televised Barber Shop talk show promotional segment. - link to promotional segment?
    • Jannetty vanished from the company, and Michaels became a villain as "The Boy Toy." - I'm pretty sure people just can't vanish :)
  • Heartbreak Kid

SRX 22:19, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Clique's Influence

  • He returned to the ring, as a crowd favorite, in June 1995 and defeated Jeff Jarrett at July's In Your House pay-per-view to win his third Intercontinental championship. - who is he? and who's July pay-per-view? Fixed.
  • This led to a title defense against Razor Ramon at SummerSlam, in a ladder match, which Michaels won. - I'm not sure if ladder match is explained earlier or not. It is mentioned.
  • In October 1995, he was legitimately attacked by several men outside a bar in Syracuse, New York. - you link to the pro wrestling def. of legit, do you want the real def outside a wrestling perspective?
    • Well, after reading pw's definition, I think linking the actual definition might work.
  • Douglas, however, lost the championship to Clique member Razor Ramon. - when did he lose it?
    • The same night he won the title.
  • They continued the match, but Michaels collapsed in the ring, supposedly because he had suffered a concussion in the Syracuse incident. - what is this Syracuse incident? Its not mentioned earlier.
    • It is, when he was attacked by men outside a Syracyse, New York bar.
  • After teasing a retirement, Michaels returned to WWF at the Royal Rumble match in 1996, which he won for the second year in a row. - how/when did he tease retirment?
    • Explained in the article.
  • Around this time, Jose Lothario became Michaels on-screen manager. - I'm not sure whether you link to valet (professional wrestling) (same as manager) earlier in the article or not.
    • I linked "manager" for the mention of Sherri Martel.
  • After teasing a retirement, Michaels returned to WWF at the Royal Rumble match in 1996, which he won for the second year in a row.[44] Around this time, Jose Lothario became Michaels on-screen manager.[45] Michaels won his first WWF Championship at WrestleMania XII in March 1996, pinning Bret Hart in the 'sudden death' overtime of their a sixty minute Iron Man match, a match where the winner is determined by the number of scoring conditions by a certain time limit, which had ended in a 0–0 tie. - no transition from how he won the Royal Rumble to the WrestleMania match, needs transition to connect the two.
    • Hope I explained it well.
  • Michaels won a steel cage match, a match where the ring is surrounded by a steel cage, against Kevin Nash, and afterwards, Scott Hall, who was about to leave WWF to company rival WCW, came in the ring and hugged Michaels - what do you mean "afterwards, Scott Hall"? So all of a sudden he came down and was involved in the match?
    • No, its saying that Scott Hall came after the match ended and joined Shawn and Hall. But, I'll reword it.
  • Although, Hunter Heart Helmsley (Paul Levesque) and Nash were seen as villains at the time, in contrast to Michaels and Hall they were also members of The Clique, and they joined in the good-bye hug. comma between "Hall" + "they."
  • A flu-ridden Michaels recaptured the championship from Sid in January 1997 at the Royal Rumble. - what is meant by flu-ridden here?
  • After knee surgery by Dr. James Andrews, Michaels returned a few months later, briefly teaming with Steve Austin (Steven Williams) to win the WWF Tag Team Titles. - no need to capitalize "Titles." Also, link? (if none above) (remember that after a few sections you can link the same subject again.
    • Its linked in section above.
  • In his autobiography, Michaels reveals about his real-life feud with Bret Hart, claiming that Bret did interviews on live television claiming that he [Michaels] was faking his whole injury. - does this include a quote? If so quotation marks are needed or you can use a quote template.
    • No, this isn't a quote, its a summary.
  • At SummerSlam, Michaels officiated the WWF championship match between WWF Champion The Undertaker (Mark Calaway) and Bret Hart. - the title has already been introduced, just simply say "the champion."
  • The fans at the event were so appalled at the result of the match they almost rioted and booed Michaels out of the building, to the extent that they littered the ring with rubbish. - Hmm, stating that they almost rioted is sort of POV. Removed.
  • The sentence above and the following sentence: "Michaels became the company's first Grand Slam Champion, a distinction made to a professional wrestler who has won all of the major titles in a promotion" do not connect, state that "With this win, Michaels became...etc." or something along those lines. Corrected.
  • At the October pay-per-view event, In Your House: Badd Blood, Michaels and Undertaker participated in the first Hell in a Cell match, a match contested in a ring surrounded by a steel cage made of metal, in which Michaels fell off the side of the 15-foot (5 m) high structure through a table and saw him as the winner in the match. - it's weird how this is worded, you say that he fell from the cell (a bad thing) but he won...Needs rewording.
  • In the summer, Michaels joined forces with real-life friend, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Hunter's then-girlfriend, Chyna, and Rick Rude (Richard Rood) to form the stable, D-Generation X (DX). - need a better phrase than "joined forces" and is Chyna is real girlfriend or on-screen girlfriend? Also explain "stable."
  • Michaels continued his staged rivalry with Bret Hart and his reformed Hart Foundation, which was now a pro-Canada stable. - if "staged rivalry" is linked and explained above, no need to say "staged" here, you can cope with just "rivalry."
    • "staged rivalry" is mentioned above, but no explanation is given.
  • Michaels taunted group and Canada by engaging in acts, such as blowing his nose with and humping the Canadian Flag. Michaels later claimed the flag desecration was Bret's idea. - "taunted group?" link to humping, sounds very odd.
  • Michaels came out of this match, dubbed by fans the "Montreal Screwjob," as the WWF Champion. - this was such a major event in pro wrestling history, and this is all you have to say about one of the key people in the event? I see nowhere else that the screwjob is mentioned.
Yeah it should since it took place during this period.--SRX 13:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

--SRX 21:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

IMatthew's comments

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Resolved comments from iMatthew

Lead

  • Where was Triple H on the first edition of Monday Night Raw?
    • Probably in WCW.
  • You should mention that Mid-South Wrestling is now known as Universal Wrestling Federation.
  • You talk about two different promotions, UWF and AWA. Then you say "There, Michaels..." make it more clear which you are talking about, UWF or AWA.
  • If we shouldn't say "the WWE", we shouldn't say "the WWF"
Disagree with this, we use the "the" for WWF because of the pronunciation of the name.--SRX 23:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since his common name and article name is Shawn Michaels, you should probably refer to him as Michaels throughout the article, instead of Hickenbottom. None of his career did he go by Hickenbottom.
  • Try to avoid "joined forces", it sounds to non-wrestling (if you know what I mean)
  • Explain, elaborate on, or link "pushing the envelope" (I don't even know what it means)
    • I got nothing to replace that. Suggestions?
  • Per WP:EGG, do not link "wrestling academy" to the academy's article. Say "wrestling academy, called __________"
  • In 2006, Hickenbottom and Triple H briefly reformed DX, but after an injury left Triple H inactive making Hickenbottom return to singles wrestling. --> The sentence read's awkward, "but after an injury left Triple H inactive making Hickenbottom return"
    • I think I got it.
  • Also, for consistency purposes, change "Hunter Hearst Helmsley" to Triple H, because readers may think they are two different wrestlers.
Or elaborate that the name is shortened to Triple H (HHH).--SRX 23:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think later in the article might be a good idea to explain.
You don't want to confuse people in the lead. iMatthew (talk) 22:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Explained in the lead. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall, Hickenbottom is a four-time world champion: a three-time WWE Champion, and a one-time World Heavyweight Champion. --> Overall, Hickenbottom has been a world champion four times, including three reigns as WWE Champion, and one reign as World Heavyweight Champion.
  • The lead is supposed to summarize his career, and you never mention his time in Grand Slam Wrestling anywhere in the lead until you say he was their champion.

I'll get to the rest when this is completed. I'm going to split my review into a couple sections, so this is only the lead. iMatthew (talk) 23:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, got comments, will be waiting for more. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Giggy

edit

Pre-empting your FAC comments... Images

All sources appear fine to me. But I might be wrong... and there's a lot, so I may have skipped over one by accident.

More later. Giggy (talk) 23:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Giants2008's comments

edit

I think this needs a good copy-edit to be successful at FAC, because I'm finding a lot of little issues early in the article. Here are some examples; I don't claim to have caught every glitch.

  • In the lead, should "the" precede most of the promotions? (Not Mid-South Wrestling) Not sure what standards exist for this, but it looks ungrammatical.
    • Yeah, it sounds odd, but I don't know if there is a standard for keeping "the".
  • How can the best wrestling editors on Wikipedia get Triple H's old ring name wrong? Even I knew it was wrong! His middle name is misspelled again in the body. That's my bad there.
  • "That same year, Michaels took part in one of the most controversial matches in wrestling history dubbed as the "Montreal Screwjob." Comma needed after history. Also watch the logical punctuation here, and audit for this throughout the page. I found several other examples.
    • I added some commas, but probably missed some.
  • Early life: Why is Captain capitalized?
    • Have no clue and has been lowered case.
  • Early life and Early career: "Then he began pursuing the career of a professional wrestler." "Hickenbottom would pursue a career in professional wrestling..." Much too similar. FAC reviewers will jump all over things like this.
    • Its mentioned in the Early life section.
  • "He was then trained by Mexican professional wrestler Jose Lothario. Lothario..." More problems here. Then doesn't make much sense since this isn't following anything. Then there's the Lothario repetition...
    • I've reworded it. Don't know if that makes sense.
  • "for a bar incident for "partying too hard". More repetition, and it could be bettered anyway.
    • Well, I've removed "partying too hard", not sure if it helps out or not.
  • Heartbreak Kid: Hyphen for first ever? I see a few other places where hyphens could be added.

Overall, I think this needs more work to become featured. If this was an FAC, I would probably oppose based on what I've read. Sorry to be so harsh, but I think it's better for you to hear it now than at an FAC nomination. Giants2008 (17-14) 01:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was told the same thing about the article needing work, that's why there's this PR. Hopefully, I got some of the concerns and will be waiting for more comments, if possible. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Peripitus

edit
  • I am not a fan of citations in the lead as it shows the lead is not a summary of the rest of the article. Have been removed.
    • His real name is only cited in the lead and not mentioned later in the article. (and two differenct cites, 4 and 8, are used to backup his birth date)
      • Reference 4 and 8 do mention "Hickenbottom".
    • There seems a lot of material in the lead that is not repeated elsewhere - the lead should be a consise summary of the article and, in general, should not require specific citations (although they certainly can be included)
      • Well, the sources are mentioned in the later in the article.
  • The article various calls him "Michael" or "Hickenbottom" - needs to be consistent
    • "Hickenbottom" is mentioned in the lead, early life, early career, and his personal life. "Michaels" is mention for the wrestling info.
  • Quite a lot of textual issues (these are just from the first few paragraphs)
    • "Currently, Michaels is" - dates very fast. Needs to note when this was current
    • "senior performers in WWE" - what is a senior performer ?
      • An older wrestler who's still wrestling.
    • "He is one of only two wrestlers, the other being The Undertaker, to have appeared on the very first episode of Monday Night Raw who are still with the company today" - not only is this a rather trivial piece of notability without pressing the link there is nothing to this point about who The Undertaker is. perhaps "Only Hickinbottom and Mark William Calaway (The Undertaker) have stayed with WWE from the first episode of Monday Night Raw until September 2008" - still not happy with this wording though
      • Like stated, the lead is the only place that that info. is mentioned.
    • "Before joining WWE, Michaels began his wrestling career " - first three words are redundant as they are obvious from the context
      • Done.
    • During his time in with AWA, he partnered up performed in partnership with Marty Jannetty,as to form The Midnight Rockers; winningand won the AWA World Tag Team Championship on twice two separate occasions - dejargoned and reads better.
      • Done.
    • Michaels later worked as a singles competitor and received a new gimmick as "The Heartbreak Kid." - "singles competitor" is jargon and a "gimmick" is not explained. Try saying "Hickinbottom later worked as a sole performer, taking on a new persona of "The Heatbreak Kid."
      • Done.
  • The early life section is a bit scant of information
    • Is the info. not good enough?
  • Nowhere that I can find is a feud explained - a lot of the article is written from an in-universe point-of-view
    • I'll work on that.

- overall the article is enjoyable but it has issues that need addressing. The in-universe terminology and language usage make it difficult to understand well if the reader is not already familiar with the material. A nice read though - Peripitus (Talk) 22:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for making concerns, I got to them and hoping if there's anything more that should be done. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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