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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 08:08, 18 July 2009 [1].

Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame

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Nominator(s): GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because, after five months of work, I think it's as good as it can get. It is complete and fully referenced, and I believe that it meets all the criteria for a Featured List. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Weak Oppose from Truco (talk · contribs) -- prose/ref issues
General
  • Dabs check out fine
  • There are 10 dead external links which need to be fixed, as seen with the toolbox at the right (last link).
Lead
  • The Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (WON HOF) is a professional wrestling hall of fame intended to recognize people who make significant contributions to the sport. -- 1)Bold the title of this article 2)I researched online and I see no official use of the acronym WON HOF, did you just use this for short or am I missing something?
Thought I got them all. Fixed. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This first occurred in 1996, when The Dusek Family, The Fabulous Kangaroos, and the Road Warriors entered the hall. -- the hall is being used as a pronoun, so it should be the Hall
  • I'm not sure about this. I think it's more of a generic mention rather than a proper noun, so it would remain lowercase. I would prefer to wait to see what the other reviewers think, if that's okay. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its actually more of a proper noun due to its usage. It would be different if it were entered this hall but you are referring to it as entered the [Wrestling Observer Newsletter] Hall [of Fame].--Truco 503 03:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it's closer to the difference between President and president. A generic reference, such as "I want to talk to the president" would be lowercase. Referring to the president by the full name, such as "I want to talk to President Nixon" would be capitalized. I think this would be the same way: the hall/the hall of fame, but the Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame. GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm still not budging on this because when you don't capitalize it, its like you are referring to hall of fame's in general like you are referring to the president in general, and not specifically the President himself. In the uses of the hall, you are using it in terms of the WON HOF not hall of fame's in general. The Hall is naturally derived from the Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame, a rule of capitalization.--Truco 503 03:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lowercase is still used if it is referring to a specific president without giving the full name. If one was to go to Obama's receptionist and request an interview, he or she would say, "I would like to speak to the president," not "the President." GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nine years later, The Fabulous Freebirds were also inducted as a group. -- Weren't the Freebirds a stable? If so, that should be mentioned accordingly.
  • They were known as a tag team and wrestled in the tag team division. They are referred to as a tag team in their Wikipedia article, and they are included in WWE's list of the top 10 tag teams. They functioned very differently than a typical stable. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The hall of fame was created because Meltzer felt the need for an unbiased method of recognizing people associated with wrestling. 1)Capitalize hall of fame per its use here as a noun 2)Source for this statement?
  • The WON HOF now serves as one of three independent wrestling halls of fame, along with the George Tragos/Lou Thesz Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame and the Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame and Museum. -- Source that these are the only 3 independent ones?
  • Meltzer began the hall of fame by choosing a list of inaugural inductees in 1996. -- Capitalize hall of fame, noun
  • The lead needs to have a summary of the list, such as the first/most recent inductees, the overall amount of inductees/tag teams, etc. See WCW Hall of Fame and NWA Hall of Fame for an example.
References
  • There is an inconsistency with the linking of publishers, either link all the publishers that have links to respective pages, or don't link them at all.
  • I recommend making the section into two columns.
See also
  • This section comes before the ref section, see WP:LAYOUT

--Truco 503 16:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead (continued)
  • There are currently 172 inductees, including the 4 tag teams. -- no need for the the
  • The hall of fame has spawned an offshoot in a column written by Nathan Hubbard for the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. Hubbard has unofficially created "The Not the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Hall of Fame", which is composed of wrestlers who he feels will not gain entry into Meltzer's hall of fame but are deserving of recognition nonetheless. He created this unofficial list in 2006 and added more names several weeks later. -- I don't know but I don't feel like this is necessary since it has no real tied to this HOF, its just like stated "an offshoot"
  • If it was in any other magazine/newsletter, I would agree. Because it is in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter itself, though, I think it is a small but interesting addition that adds to the article. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would add that the inaugural class had the most inductees, since you can't really stated who was inducted that yr or it would take up an entire paragraph.
Images
  • On my monitor, it already looks empty now that I finished filling in the table. There is a 4-inch white space that I was actually considering filling with another image. I'll hold off on adding another, but there is already white space from 2004 down to the bottom of the table on my monitor. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What's your monitor size? I'm using a wide screen, so the last image [The Rock's image] rolls over into the See also section, which shouldn't happen.--Truco 503 00:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
1280x768. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You could most definitely do that.--Truco 503 02:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I rephrased the sentence, but there are also articles for the NWA Wrestling Legends Hall of Heroes and the St. Louis Wrestling Hall of Fame, so I put them in the See also section. GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "is a professional wrestling hall of fame intended to recognize people" "intended to" implies that there is a chance that the people aren't recognized. Why not "is a professional wrestling hall of fame that recognizes people"?
  • "George Tragos/Lou Thesz Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame" Link?
  • "Nine years later, The Fabulous Freebirds were also inducted as a group."
  • "employed within the professional wrestling"-->employed in the professional wrestling
  • "15 years experience in the wrestling business "-->15 years of experience in the wrestling business
  • "10 years experience"-->10 years of experience
  • "There are currently 172 inductees, including the 4 tag teams."
  • "Wrestling Observer Newsletter" Link?
  • What makes the unofficial list worth mentioning? Many sports journalists compile their own lists of snubs and undeserving inductees; what makes Nathan Hubbard's especially notable? Dabomb87 (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's included in the same newsletter that runs the hall of fame, so it's a little more "official" (despite being unofficial) than just some guy saying that he wants other people inducted. GaryColemanFan (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
    • Where are the numbers in the # column coming from? I see their purpose, but I don't think it should give the impression that they are official (like the order of induction).
    • Is the bit about the "The Not the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Hall of Fame" necessary? It's just a column and there is no proof of notability of it.
      • No love for the unofficial non-hall, I see. If all three people commenting want it gone, I guess it could go. It's only two sentences, and I believe it adds to the article and is notable because it is published in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. I'm willing to compromise and put it in the external links. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Would it be possible to add a column for home nation? I doubt it would be easy, but that would be a very useful one to have.
  • -- Scorpion0422 03:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm not sure that that would look like. Taking the first person from the list, Abdullah the Butcher was born in Canada, billed from the Sudan, competes regularly in Japan, and I think he has settled in Alabama. Which one would be used in a case like that? Would references be required for each wrestler, or can it be considered common knowledge? These are just some questions that come to mind, and I hope they don't sound critical, as I can see some use for your suggestion. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • You're probably right that it would be too difficult to put it together, if only the WON had an official online list that included that info, then it would work. -- Scorpion0422 03:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17-14) 03:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments –

Waiting for Dabomb to give a thumbs-up on his source queries before supporting. Giants2008 (17-14) 03:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support now that the sources have been verified as acceptable, since my comments were responded to earlier. Good list overall. Giants2008 (17-14) 02:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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