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Latest comment: 12 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion
Hi, some good info on the 4.85mm Enfield, but I have a couple of suggestions to amend it for clarity if I may:
"5.56mm Remington" is a conflation of the military (5.56x45mm) and the sporting (.223 Remington) versions of this cartridge, which though generally interchangeable, are produced to different specifications, including soft point sporting projectiles of various weights for the .223 Rem. The version that I think you are referring to as "then existing" is the US 5.56mm M193 round, which was introduced with the original M16/M16A1 which had a 55 grain projectile. The version that competed with (and was victorious over) the 4.85mm was the Belgian FN-designed SS109 5.56x45mm round which used a heavier 62 grain projectile.
Your reference to "Armalite" should be replaced by "M16/M16A1" for clarity and linked to the M16 page, as the AR18 (which page you have linked to) was never a US standard issue weapon.
You probably need to find a source for the assertion that the 4.85mm round was seen to be superior. There is one, as I have read it somewhere, can't remember where though. If I recall correctly it is related to the greater sectional density of the projectile which (other things such as muzzle velocity and projectile weight being similar) would mean superior performance at longer ranges.
"far more rounds of ammunition could be carried by an individual soldier". Undoubtedly true when compared to the 7.62mm, which is where the comment undoubtedly originated, but the weight difference between the 4.85mm and 5.56mm rounds is negligible - they are almost the same overall size (i.e. fit in a M16 magazine) and based on the same case, and the projectile weight is within a few grains (437.5 grains in an ounce).
"Remington and its supporters" Remington wasn't the advocate and was really nothing to do with it - it was the US Government who once again wanted its chosen solution to be adopted by NATO (unsurprising as they constitute more than 50% of NATO contributions). You are right about money being a big factor though.
There is an expert who contributes on here who has written an entire book on the 5.56 who knows way more than me though - he might comment at some stage. Strangways (talk) 20:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Well I actually handled the prototype at Warminster and talked to the trials team from Enfield. They were adamant that it was superior to the then available 5.56 round. As for it fitting the M16 magazine - I'm not sure about that. The impression given was that they had developed the 4.85 round from scratch based on some calculations around weight, size, muzzle velocity etc. The problem is that it was such a long time ago - one sunny afternoon in the middle of an all-arms course. However the actual weapon PLUS its ammunition made a huge impression and I've always wondered what might have happened if the 5.56 ammunition had not held sway in the final analysis. I remember distinctly asking what was so special about the 4.85 (taking into account that the kinetic energy of the 7.62mm NATO round was sufficient to pass through a brick wall and kill someone on the other side - a fact that is extremely useful in CQB). I asked if the 4.85 had similar capability and was told something along the lines that it was not quite so penetrative - but not far off and more accurate at range. We also had some discussion about the comparison with the 5.56 round as that was being touted as the likely NATO replacement standard. That was where the team talked about the development curves of the respective munitions and it is quite obvious that even by the mid-1970s the 5.56 had been around for quite some time. They hinted that the 4.85 development ammunition they had been testing had come through trials performing better than 5.56 munitions (presumably fired from an M16 or similar). This doesn't make the conversations any easier to verify as I have no idea where any test reports might exist and I certainly wouldn't have access to them anyway.
I was not in the infantry (Officer in the Royal Artillery) and retired from the British Army in 1988 - shortly before the SA80 was introduced widely into service, so never actually got to use it. Synaptic peach (talk) 02:21, 4 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion
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The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Wiki Loves Monuments
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The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The November 2024 articles selected below are an editor choice as there were no nominations on the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. You will also have to check that the Commons link is set correctly.
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To members who have added suggestions to the ToDo list at Yorkshire Portal.
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Latest comment: 2 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
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The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Happy Christmas
It is time to wish all members of the project a Happy Christmas and many thanks for all of the work done on articles relating to Yorkshire over the past year. A milestone for the project as we reach 20,000 Yorkshire related articles this month, also it is the 200th edition of this news letter.
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Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. You will also have to check that the Commons link is set correctly.
Thanks
A very big Thank you to all the editors who labour away quietly and help make this WikiProject what it is; no edit goes unnoticed.
To members who have added suggestions to the ToDo list at Yorkshire Portal.
To the football and rugby editors who have done sterling work in keeping abreast of the top clubs.
To all the WikiProject Yorkshire editors who have been busy on vandal patrol at watchlist.
Great!
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The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Happy New Year
It is time to wish all members of the project a Happy New Year and many thanks for all of the work done on articles relating to Yorkshire over the past year.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The January 2025 articles selected below are an editor choice as there were no nominations on the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. You will also have to check that the Commons link is set correctly.
Thanks
A very big Thank you to all the editors who labour away quietly and help make this WikiProject what it is; no edit goes unnoticed.
To members who have added suggestions to the ToDo list at Yorkshire Portal.
To the football and rugby editors who have done sterling work in keeping abreast of the top clubs.
To all the WikiProject Yorkshire editors who have been busy on vandal patrol at watchlist.
Great!
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
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Hello. In a recent edit to the page Sack of Rome (410), you changed one or more words or styles from one national variety of English to another. Because Wikipedia has readers from all over the world, our policy is to respect national varieties of English in Wikipedia articles.
