Swestlake

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Dcfldd

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Proposed deletion of Dcfldd

Hello, Swestlake. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Dcfldd, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:

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You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, teratogen (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

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Talkback

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Talkback

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—me_and 14:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Re: Comparison of disk cloning software

Hi.

Yes, you are right about inaccuracies... probably. I do not know much about Linux anyway. (I am a Windows engineer anyway.) I copied the values from the corresponding articles, i.e. dd and dcfldd articles. Now two points:

• {{?}} means you don't know; if you are sure it does not support file-based approach, use {{No}} instead.
• Are you sure dd does not support file-by-file transfer? I read its article and it seems this program is essentially a file-by-file transfer utility; it can perform sector-by-sector operation only because Linux exposes the entire disk as a file. (That's what's written in the article.)

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 16:05, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

according to notes b of Comparison of disk cloning software for 'File by File' "^ File-based transfer, (as opposed to sector-by-sector transfer,) involves opening all files and copying their contents, one by one. It requires the cloning utility to have a knowledge of the file systems on the source disk. The target disk's layout may not resemble that of the source disk."

The contents of a filesystem are copied, but in order for that to happen the program has to support filesystem-read capabilities within it's logic. dd and dcfldd do not support any filesystem-read capabilities. dd and dcfldd can "dump" only. An article which I'd like to start which emphasizes the difference between these two forms of cloning, as you can see here, one being filesystem-based and the other a sector-by-sector(which is the one known as dumping). 'Cloning' is not a strict interpretation and can easily imply filesystem-based copying. The word dump is very strict and can never imply a filesystem-based form of copying. (one can use these two tools to perform a simple instance of file-to-file copy, but it's not correlated to the interpretation of filesystem-based copying; where the meaning is "all" the files on the filesystem get copied under one operation)Swestlake (talk) 16:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi. dd (Unix) article implies that dd does access file system because according to that article, dd can swap byte order and even convert between ASCII and EBCDIC. I can't imagine how one app do all these without accessing file system API; but this is definitely not a dump. Since the article has supplied a source for these, I assume they must be correct. Of course, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 16:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

It's true the description of dd says 'convert and copy a file', but the introductory is poorly emphasized as character conversion a primary focus when it shouldn't be. The introductory was quoting a hardcore manpage not meant to be read by laypersons. A file on Unix/Linux is also a 'device file', so I wouldnt include that quotation in the introductory. Ascii<->Ebcdic is close to non-existent with the usage of dd, but it should be emphasized relating to the examples given on the wikipedia page. True, it can be used for character conversion, and when doing so it is not used on 'files' that are 'device files', because the manpage is relating to "device files" (hardcore command manpages in Unix/Linux relate to "files" as "device files") DD is largely worked with device files, and you're right, if there is a byte-swap during transit then it's no longer a perfect replica. The manpage isn't meant to interpret that it's main usage is with ordinary files, the examples all show device files being used. Also I wonder what makes you think ASCII<->EBDCII is a real concern.. ASCII has been replaced by modern character systems. It's fine to have it in it's introductory, but there should be emphasis as well for using dd as a dump operation because that's the main thing it does, and all it's command parameters relate to "block-level" read/write controls -- A "dump" tool is block-level based. Even if it's not articulated as a "dump tool" in it's manpage, dd is always primarily a block-level cloning tool, and block-level cloning tools are said to "dump" (byte-swapping is not a real concern since all examples on that page show no byte-swapping examples-- and in actuality byte-swapping is rarely ever used unlike the earlier days of UNIX, same thing with the character conversion-- dd is largely if ever nowadays not used for performing character conversions). I believe "dumping"(I'm not sure of it's etymology perhaps you can find out) possibly originates from the "dump" command tool (Dump (program))

Where it is distinguishable from 'filesystem-based' cloning. Filesystem-based cloning means the tool in question can recognize all files "off" a device "all on it's own"-- That table on comparison of cloning tools implies that they are self-reliant to recognizing filesystems with their own logic code.. whether running within a hosting user Desktop environment or from their own bootable cd. But to get to the point, a featured filesystem-based backup tool cannot use a full drive device as it's source, but block-level ones can, which makes dd and other dump tools known as hardcore -- Dump tools do not care about structure at all, that's why dd can do all the things it is shown to do (can backup any device file) Swestlake (talk) 18:24, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi. The "device file" that you explain is pretty much the same in Windows. (We have //?/ devices.) Now here comes a question: How can one utility alter or transfer one file at sector level, without affecting its neighboring files, especially since files have no block-level boundaries and may be fragmented within a partition? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 19:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

That's what the Operating System's Filesystem Api facilitates. The OS mounts the filesystem using a filesytem driver before it is presented to application developers. It's like this on all Operating Systems. "Dumps" are not unique to Linux, or Unix-only systems. I made a long article on googleplus about dumping an ISO file in Windows, Linux and OsX. I'm seeing if I can get someone from Intel or IBM to help contribute to the dump article..

https://plus.google.com/105696767572828808697/posts/X51mGnyiZq9

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg3T1000169#2

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Core_dump

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Database_dump<

If you look on other wikipedia pages, there is "Database dump"

It's the same definition intent that relates to retaining the original source's structure.. It doesn't have to be block-level of a hardware device, block-level can relate to any form of storage-- and so there'd be article sections for drive dumps, database dump, and of course kernel/core dumps..

Apple too also uses the word "dump".. They can all be summarized as block-level or non-altered sources cloned. Forensics specialists use "dumps" so as to preserved the exact replica of a device's content. But it's also used for emphasizing, that it is not a "loose" clone of something, but a "strict" clone where metadata isn't altered.

The average user doesn't care about this, but it would help to know because hybrid-iso'z are becoming more popular for Linux(and there's lacking of proper constructs on iso image and other usb-Linux related wikipages)--(the googleplus post compares between a "dump" and "non-dumping" a Linux iso, the latter alters metadata)

Swestlake (talk) 20:01, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Creating empty articles

Please do not post articles with zero content. It has been deleted. You are welcome to work on articles in your Sandbox. See the tab by your logon name in the upper right corner. Then you can paste the text when you are ready. I hope to see a new article soon. Regards- Gilliam (talk) 20:26, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I can save things with the sandbox? I'll have to take a look :) Swestlake (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

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Storage dump(Computer science) -- article related to operation (essentially what dd performs)

There's a few webpages that will be linked/proposed/created. This surrounds around the concept of 'dump' The 'dump' program is not the same concept as used by others that use the word 'dump' as a dd operation (strict cloning). The article will be coming out sometime in the next week.

So far, there will be a general ambiguity page for 'Dump (Computer science)' which points to 'Storage dump(Computer science)', kernel dump, etc..

Now what needs to be emphasized on 'Dump (Computer science)', is the ambiguity of the 'dump' program which isn't a strict cloning copy of a hardware device.

There will be at least 4 pages that need to be updated, 1 wikipedia page to be created, and there will be definitely more articles capable of using 'dump' (starting with the dd article which I have discussed)..

the Dd article to mentioned as a dump tool has largely been emphasized on it's talk page. If you would like to know when it will be updated to including this terminology (Suse and Debian documentation already use 'dump' as a strict cloning operation), you can add Dd (unix) to your watchlist..

See also, where it would be either a referential update, clarification, (if any merge, there'll be a talk about it), etc
Dd_(Unix)#Proposal_for_changes
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/storage+dump
http://foldoc.org/dump
http://www.nethamilton.net/docs/dump.html
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Block_(data_storage) block-level
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Disk_sector

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Disk_storage
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Disk_formatting
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Filesystem

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Data_storage_device
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/aix/v7r1/index.jsp
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Database_dump
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Hex_dump

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg3T1000169#2
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Core_dump
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Database_dump
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Savestate#Save_states

There will be minimal alteration of existing articles, and there has been merely 'dump'.

First the Dump (Computer science) and Storage dump(Computer science), have to roll out to beforehand..

Citations that can currently be used
http://www.unix.com/man-page/FreeBSD/8/dump/
,(must be emphased in it's own article), currently points to
,Dump_(program)
, this article needs to have something mentioning about 'dump' being used as a verb to distinguish the ambiguity
, perhaps explanation of fstab with the 'dump' in the manpage of fstab
, http://dump.sourceforge.net/

Other references online

https://www.suse.com/LinuxPackages/packageRouter.jsp?product=server&version=11&service_pack=&architecture=i386&package_name=dump

Suse also specifies "dump" as a strict-cloning disk tool as the following https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles11/singlehtml/book_sle_deployment/book_sle_deployment.html#sec.autokiwi.manual

"There are many ways to dump a raw image onto a disk."
https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles11/singlehtml/book_sle_deployment/book_sle_deployment.html#cha.autokiwi

Debian, for making a usb-bootable Linux installer from the iso (but uses cat program to do the dump operation)
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch04s03.html.en

Usage of the word 'dump' (as a strict cloning) in a debian wiki
http://wiki.debian.org/DiskImage#A.img, " In fact there is no "format" in it, just a raw dump of the content of the disk."

elive topaz, http://www.elivecd.org/Help/Howto/boot-elive-from-usba

https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Installation_Media
"Simply download the ISO, burn it on a CD using your favourite ISO burner (or dump it on a USB key using dd or mandriva-seed),"
"To dump a Mageia installation ISO on a USB stick, you may try one of several dd-based tools:"

To be edited on the Dump_(program) article
Shortcomings to the dump program
http://dump.sourceforge.net/
http://dump.sourceforge.net/isdumpdeprecated.html#canusedump
"First, you can safely use dump on unmounted and read-only filesystems. You can also safely use dump on idle filesystems if you sync before dumping (but can you be sure they are idle? a solution is to remount them read-only before dumping)."
Not to dump filesystems while being used
http://dump.sourceforge.net/isdumpdeprecated.html#problem

Swestlake (talk) 09:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Live-linux USB & Linux Hybrid ISO support -- near-to-future editorial changes that must be made

A new article is needed to emphasize the difference between dump and Live-linux USB creation.

The growing advent of "dumping" Linux iso files is becoming more prevalent in popularity. (see also proposal for cleaning up 'dump' computer science articles above)

Will propose to make new section about it in
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Live_USB
rather than making new article, but article needs alot of patching, in order to distinguish itself from "Hybrid iso" support.

Will propose also to make relevant section Linux's "Hybrid iso" support
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/ISO_image
article also needs patching to emphasize "Hybrid" is not Apple's terminology.
Swestlake (talk) 09:15, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

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Email response

Hi, I've received your email. I'd prefer to discuss this on Wikipedia, either here or on my talk page. Is there a reason that's not appropriate here? I couldn't see one in the email.

Unless there's some privacy concern, I prefer to keep discussions about contributing to Wikipedia on Wikipedia, since that provides a lot more accountability and oversight than private emails. Of course, if there is some privacy concern, I'm happy to stick to a more private conversation.

If there's a concern you don't want to discuss here, feel free to email your reply.

—me_and 18:46, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

and I'm only watching just a few articles of subjects I like.. so my concern isn't wide-spread. so far he's not back again.. but if he comes back to this article(Debian) making changes and if it goes more than twice of him making unjustly changes, I would give warnings on his page about vandalism. I gave a wikipedia guideline to him, but he insisted on "his terms" of how wikipedia should be run.. to my understanding vandalism does not work with one editor, but would require a few other editors to report on the same problematic editor. The reason why I emailed you is because this editor sounds like he doesn't give a plain *** about how wikipedia's guidelines.. and he might be just coming back to sabotage things just for the hell of it. If you don't want to answer me, that's fine.. you at least could of just above. Thanks.

..Anyways it's staying here for the record that I tried to talk to an administrator about potential recurring vandalism.. so if the recurring editor comes back to cause problems again, I'll just take proper action and find better resources elsewhere.

Swestlake (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I didn't answer above in case there was some good reason for keeping the discussion private – per WP:EMAIL#Privacy I didn't want to assume you were comfortable talking about it here.

I've not looked at any of the details of what's going on here, so I'm just going on what you've reported.

WP:VAND has the policy on vandalism; in general the first response should be warnings on the person's talk page; once they've been warned several times (four is the normal, via {{uw-vand1}}, {{uw-vand2}}, {{uw-vand3}} and {{uw-vand4}}, although that's a guideline not a rule, and {{uw-vand4im}} exists for a reason). If they continue to vandalise after that, the next step is WP:AIV.

However, remember vandalism is "a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." In particular, if the user is attempting to improve Wikipedia, even if you disagree with their edits, or they're being stubborn or edit warring, that's not vandalism, and needs to be handled differently. WP:NOTVAND has advice on handling such other problems and points to the relevant policies.

Your email also said you suspect the other user having multiple accounts. This is sock puppetry; it's not forbidden per se, but it is very restricted, and using multiple accounts to make cohesive edits to imply consensus is expressly forbidden. To report sock puppetry, you'll need to make a report at WP:SI with evidence per WP:SOSP.

Regarding making edits with poor English and without citations, remember Wikipedia is never intended to be perfect. We accept imperfect contributions that improve things, because those contributions can be improved in turn, such as by improving the language or adding citations. Inline citations are not always necessary in any case — WP:MINREF lists when they are actually required. Even for breaches of WP:MINREF, the correct solution may be to add a citation rather than revert the content.

—me_and 09:57, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Referencing new articles

Hi. Regarding the question you asked elsewhere, see WP:42 for a very informal version (which links to a few of the more detailed pages).

WP:Your first article offers a more detailed walkthrough.

If you have any other questions, WP:Teahouse or WP:Help desk are two of the best places to ask, if you can't find what you're looking for. Hope that helps. :) –Quiddity (talk) 22:36, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks..

Swestlake (talk) 05:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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Intro do Debian

Swestlake, could you please spell out what exactly your problem with Debian is? Why do you delete information provided by the Debian project itself? Bakkedal (talk) 09:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia 101(Please see Wikipedia:Five_pillars)-> When you click "undo" you delete all previous edits. Use the history feature to compare editions. Use 'undo' sparingly as others have put time putting the effort of revising. Edit to wikipedia's guidelines.. if there's a dispute on an edit, use the talkpage. If there's multiple vandal reports with the system, it can get your ip banned. Sake of courtesy, discuss a change if there's a dispute. My concern is not the expression '--developed by the Debian project' -- You "undid" all prior changes that have been narrated and discussed on the topic's talkpage. You did not address them(non-Linux kernels), it's the way Wikipedia guides its rules to contributing editors.

Swestlake (talk) 09:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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Please Help me...

Hi, I need to change my IDE Harddisk for some reason to SATA one. In fact I am changing all - motherboard, CPU, RAM, all. My old disk is carrying Windows XP. And I want my new disk to behave exactly like old one. Kindly tell me which Disk Cloning software is most suitable to first timers, and step-by-step how I should use it. Thanks. (You can reply at my talkpage or, be kind and answer at jskhurmi (at) yahoo dot com) Jon Ascton  (talk) 20:04, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Boot Repair Disk

The article Boot Repair Disk has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable, uncited advertising

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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