User talk:Sparklism/Archives/2014/March

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Sparklism. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

A barnstar for you!

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

	The Minor barnstar
	Thank you for your edits to Pink Moon. Elisunshine01 and I have worked hard on this article and thanks to the guidance of people like you and Richard3120 it has moved to a B status with High Importance. Newbies like us truly appreciate it and once we have some more experience will return that kindness to other newbies. Pugsly8000 (talk) 00:57, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

That's very kind - thank you very much :) — sparklism ^hey! 16:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Album articles

Latest comment: 10 years ago11 comments2 people in discussion

Hi there - been looking through your edits to The Take Off and Landing of Everything, all of which are fair enough, and one of them prompted a thought... you moved the 'Writing and composition' section ahead of 'Recording' on the basis that it made more sense. I totally agree that logically the writing must come before the recording - what I've always followed in my album article writing is the album article style guide which lists 'writing' after 'recording', and indeed the 'release and promotion'section... I've always found this a bit odd and wondered about changing the sections around. I know that this is just that, a guide, and not to be followed to the letter, but do you think it is worth revising the guide to move the writing section further up in the article body, after 'Background'? Richard3120 (talk) 17:04, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi mate. I am in total agreement with you on this one. In my mind, the structure of an album article should be along the lines of: Lead > Background > Writing > Recording > Release > Reception > Charts, which makes perfect sense from the chronological perspective. (Though now I'm looking at that list, I'm wondering where "Content" should sit...) I'd certainly be in favour of refreshing the guide, though of course you'd have to get consensus from the other WP:ALBUMS guys first.

I do seem to edit a lot of album articles these days, which is possibly why I seem to be running into you a fair bit......do you have any GA/FA album articles? (I don't) — sparklism ^hey! 21:17, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sparklism, glad to see we're in agreement about this – I'll see if I can make the suggestion to the WP:ALBUMS page: I agree about the structure of the article, but what do you mean exactly by 'Content'?

I do contribute to other areas of Wikipedia, notably WP:CRICKET and Colombia-themed articles as that's where I am based at the moment, but like you music is my passion so that's where my focus is. I don't have any GAs to my name – the closest of the ones I have worked on are probably Songs to Remember and Signing Off but both articles have a missing citation reference which would fail GA criteria, so I haven't attempted to have them assessed for GA status yet (I know I could probably just delete the offending sentence and have them assessed, but I'd like to be able to complete them). The Songs to Remember article was literally a single line and a track listing when I started work on it – I am currently working on Scritti Politti's much better known follow-up Cupid & Psyche 85.

Without wanting to be too big-headed I feel I can genuinely claim to be the primary author of the following Wikipedia music articles:

Many of these articles were stub- or start-class when I started working on them, and I have since bumped up to C- or B-class, so they are not far from being considered for GA. You will gather that my main interest at the moment is (mainly) British postpunk/New Wave/synthpop albums from 1978–1985, not just because I love the music but because I feel it is an area almost completely ignored on Wikipedia: the classic 60s albums have many books and magazine articles about them, and albums from the 90s onwards have plenty of internet coverage to provide information and references for other people to write articles on them, but for the late 70s and 80s the only places to look are the odd biography and music magazines of the time, which unless you own old copies or have access to the British Library's collection (which is what I do) it's difficult to find information so nobody writes articles about the music of this period... added to which many of these albums are largely unknown in the US where most of Wikipedia's editors are based, so there would be no reason to expect them to contribute.

I have a list of about 50(!) albums from the period I'd like to improve – not all of them big-sellers, but like Songs to Remember or A Walk Across the Rooftops they have gone on to be recognised as classic records of the period. The three "big" 80s albums that I feel need to be improved and are worthy of GA status are Dare, The Lexicon of Love and Hounds of Love – all of them were big sellers in the US as well so there would be widespread interest in them. Dare already has a fairly big article on it, but it's very tech-heavy (instruments used, studio production details) and little about how the band came to make it, and many of the links cited are now dead so it needs an overhaul, but there is a new book coming out in May about the Human League ("Electric Dreams" by David Buckley) so I am waiting to read that before making changes. The Lexicon of Love is in a shocking state considering it is regarded as one of the key British albums of all time and a worldwide bestseller to boot, consisting of barely more than the track listings of the 356 or so re-releases in the last thirty years. I have several pages of notes about the album that I have made over the last couple of years, but I really need to get hold of the Radio 1 "Classic Albums" documentary from 1992 (now occasionally repeated on Radio 6Music) which would help a lot in putting it all together. I used to have a copy on cassette taped off the radio, but I think I got rid of it a long time ago. Hounds of Love should be easy enough to improve with the help of Graeme Thomson's "Under the Ivy" biography which I am going to download to my Kindle.

As a Nottingham resident you'll appreciate the additions to the Tindersticks' articles, a London band who started out as Nottingham-based The Asphalt Ribbons... for such a large city why are there so few musicians from Nottingham? The only other ones I can think of are cheesy 70s glam rockers Paper Lace and Depeche Mode's Andy Fletcher... Richard3120 (talk) 17:20, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

That's a pretty impressive list of articles - you should be proud of those. Get a few of those to GA status! We obviously have some overlapping taste; while I'm not really much of a synth pop fan, I do love those Blue Nile albums. As for Tindersticks, well....they're one of my all-time favourite bands, and I've had the pleasure of seeing them live many times. I can take or leave their recent albums, but everything as far as Waiting for the Moon really floats my boat.

Back to album article structure: by 'content' I simply meant a section describing the music/songs ("Musical Content", if you like). I'm not sure where this should sit in the structure - part of me thinks it fits directly after "Composition", but part of me thinks it fits much later in the structure (certainly after "Recording", maybe even after "Release").

Finally, as far as Nottingham music goes, don't tell me you've forgotten about such luminaries as Swing Out Sister, Krush and KWS? Actually, we have had some half-decent bands over the years with Six By Seven, Amusement Parks on Fire, Scout Niblett and the current crop of Dog Is Dead, Harleighblu and Jake Bugg (our first ever #1 album, though it's not really my thing) - so perhaps it's not quite the musical desert that many people (including locals) seem to assume. — sparklism ^hey! 22:01, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm an idiot, I've even seen Six By Seven live in London many years ago, but I'd completely forgotten they were from Nottingham. Didn't know Jake Bugg was from there but like I said I spend most of my time out of the UK these days so I don't follow the latest artists as closely as I used to, and he's not my favourite artist either (I don't see the point in trying to sound like 1956 in the 21st century). The first two 'Sticks albums are by far and away my favourites (indeed I'd include both in my top ten albums of the 1990s), hence my trying to improve them.

I guess the "musical content" part is meant to be included within "writing and composition" – if we're talking about a general overview of the "sound" of the album, I try and include that in the lead... I gave my view on the WP:ALBUMS talk page about trying to describe the music within the genre field of the infobox, I think it's next to impossible/pointless.

I think I will put the two Blue Nile albums up for GA candidature soon, after I add some info from Allan Brown's "Nileism" biography. I might have a go at Peace at Last and High at some point, but everybody knows they don't hold a candle to the first two albums so I'm not so worried about them. Richard3120 (talk) 02:13, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

PS. Last time I saw Tindersticks was their London Somerset House gig in July 2012 – we may even have been at the same gig... Richard3120 (talk) 03:03, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Sadly, I wasn't at that gig. I did see them at Somerset House prior to that though, and now I've looked it up I see it was all the way back in 2002; it was a great show, played with a full orchestra, but I can't believe it was that long ago...

I came to the Blue Nile very late: though I remember my schoolfriends listening to them (mostly through their elder siblings, I think) back in the 80s, I never heard them myself until my housemate bought High. Consequently, I don't have the emotional attachment to their earlier albums that most people seem to have, and I actually rate Peace at Last and High as almost on a par with the first two now that I've backtracked. Perhaps I'm not listening hard enough or something. (I also loved the Paul Buchanan solo album, which was one of my very favourite albums of 2012.) I'll stick my nose in at Peace at Last and High when I get the chance and see if I can help.

I saw your comments about genre in the infobox at the WP:ALBUMS page, and I totally agree - I just don't think it can be done that way objectively.

Nice chatting to a fellow music nut with similar ideas for the wiki - I love to read decent album articles. I have a goal of getting one of mine to GA status eventually, but I know I'm a long way off. The best I can manage so far is New History Warfare Vol. 3: To See More Light, which just doesn't have enough coverage to take any further, I don't think. Nevermind, I'll find another one day. Cheers! — sparklism ^hey! 08:14, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Having looked at that article of yours, I'm not so sure it wouldn't make GA – if you have a look at some GA albums they are much shorter and with fewer references, e.g. check out Cheap at Half the Price, Live Undead or Live'r Than You'll Ever Be, so it may be worth getting it reviewed. I agree about Mid Air – the title track is one of the most beautiful and heartbreaking songs anybody has written in the last few years. :-) Richard3120 (talk) 16:19, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Kind of you to say so mate - perhaps I should try to get a B-class assessment first? Any idea what the best way to go about this is?

As for Mid Air, that title track is incredible; I wouldn't be surprised if it finds itself covered on many adult-contemporary albums in a few years' time. I'm also very partial to one of the bonus tracks, "Have You Ever Been Lonely?" - wow! We should write Mid Air at some point, you know... — sparklism ^hey! 08:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Just put it up for review at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Assessment#Requesting_an_assessment - edit the section and add something like "# {{la|New History Warfare Vol. 3: To See More Light}} for B-class" and sign it with the four tildes, as the instructions tell you, and someone from WP:Albums will look over it in the coming weeks.

I had thought about doing an article on Mid Air at some point but decided it wasn't urgent, not being a big seller or well known. There's certainly enough information, interviews with Paul Buchanan, reviews, etc. to be able to create a decent article – I know the album originally developed out of songs Buchanan was asked to write for Shirley Manson's solo album which was scheduled for 2007 or 2008, and the Allan Brown book "Nileism" towards the end states that Buchanan has a solo album of piano and vocal songs recorded with Cameron Malcolm ready for release but which is being delayed due to legal issues... this is obviously Mid Air and the book was published in 2010, so it's clear the album was written and recorded several years before release. Richard3120 (talk) 15:33, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

(Late response - been busy IRL)I've taken your advice and nom'd for B-class - let's see how it goes. Cheers for the advice! — sparklism ^hey! 11:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC)