Shahrdad

Thanks for the correction of the Maria Callas article.

--Captbaritone (talk) 00:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Maria Callas anti-infobox enforcement tag

It's invisible to viewers, only visible to editors. It's at the very top of the page. One of the Wikiproject Opera members re-added it most recently in this edit today. Robert K S (talk) 16:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It's controversial, but as far as I can tell, about a year ago, a few members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera decided that no biographical opera article should have an infobox. Then they set about removing infoboxes from biographical opera articles and placing a little tag at the top of them saying, essentially, no infoboxes allowed. Only a couple of editors opposed this course of action, and now the several editors over at WikiProject Opera believe the issue is closed and that a consensus prevails. This "consensus" was formed by fewer than ten editors, and the current guideline as written on their project page was really only agreed to by its author and two other editors. By WP:OWN, ownership of articles is not allowed, but this tagging of opera articles seems to me to place ownership over opera articles and enforce a particular guideline over those articles. (In this case the guideline is not in conformity with the Wikipedia at large, which broadly accepts infoboxes.) I don't have any strong opinion as to whether or not Maria Callas needs an infobox or not, but I believe it is wrong for a group of editors to impose their little rule on the potentially thousands of articles to which they may believe it might apply. Robert K S (talk) 17:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Shake

I think from the context it is clear that it cannot mean trill. Since we disagree, I removed the link altogether, and the text can stand on its own. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I heard back from Robert Selestky regarding the "Shake," and this was his reponse:

Shake is ALWAYS "trill." That usage goes back to the 16th century and continues through the 19th. The word "vibrato" is modern and was not used at all; the effect was sometimes called "tremolo" when referring to that stop on the organ, but "tremolo" for voice in 17th century Italy meant what we call "trill"--2 notes, while their "trillo" meant trill on a single note--an effect that died out in the late 17th century. In English, trill is always called "shake." Geminiani (1751), in his violin treatise, is the only one who also refers to a "close shake" which described a two-finger micro-tonal trills (which no one does any more), while using "shake" to mean trill--like all others in English, obviously including Chorley. As to vibrato as such, instrumental treatises tend not to have a word for it other than tremolo; Geminiani actually describes and says "this cannot possibly be described in words." Most string treatises discourage its use except Geminiani. Wind instruments never used it so it's a moot point. I can't even think of any period vocal treatises that even discuss it except Tosi where, in the English translation, he pejoratively refers to it as "fluttering in the manner of those who sing in a very bad taste."

If you listen to old (pre-1910) instrumental recordings, there is NO organic vibrato; with winds, even the Scala recordings of the 1950s, lack it; and just listen to the oboe in the Mexico AIDAs! Completely straight tone. Strings started to use it organically after gut strings were abandoned as a result of the unavailability (they were made in Germany and Italy) during the first world war, and it stuck, unfortunately; but even great 20th century violin pedagogues like Leopold Auer discouraged its use. My feeling is that the voice starts to vibrate naturally as it hits a certain volume level, but it was never deliberate. The fast "fluttering" was considered anathema, and I doubt anyone with a wobbly, wide tremolo that he or she couldn't control would have considered a vocal career at all.

Also in an article called "The Trill is Gone", which was published in Opera News in January 1999, Will Crutchfield writes:

Debate has swirled over the question of whether the trill can be taught to singers who cannot do it spontaneously -- or, as an English translator of Gianbattista Mancini put it in the eighteenth century, "whether it is possible to give the shake where nature has witheld it." ("Shake" is the old British term for the trill; historically, it doesn't mean anything different from "trill," though some voice teachers today use it colloquially to mean one or another of the defective ways the trill can be approximated.)

I went ahead and restored the link between Shake and Trill in the Callas Article. Shahrdad (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Callas's Range

It's write at the page 85 of the book of Eve Ruggierri, La Callas, la plus grande du XXème siècle., that Maria Callas have touch the F-natural at the end of Dilette Amiche.

Callas's Range

It is even written at the page 85 of La Callas, la plus grande du XXème siècle. that erudite music lovers regret that Callas have touch the high F at the end of Dillette Amiche, because Verdi have never written this note . This means therefore that all erudite know that Callas could touch the high F and it is even written in the Wikipedia article on the Callas's Vocal Range that Rock Ferris said that Callas have touch the high F during her concert of June 11, 1951 in Florence, so ?!

Many other sources including the most respected source on Callas (John Ardoin) refer to the final note in the Vespri "Bolero" as a high E. In addition, if you listen to the two recordings of this aria (1951 live and 1954 EMI) and compare the note against a piano, the final note is a high E and not an F. Authors and critics are human and make mistakes. The F in the book you cite could simply be a typographical error, or the author could be mistaken. Rock Ferris does refer to F's being sung by Callas, but it's very unlikely that he was comparing the pitch against a piano or a tuning fork, which makes his assertion uncertain. The most solid argument for a Callas high F is the live recording of "Armida," but most experts consider the note to be an E which comes closer to an F due to the recording being played at too high a speed. When I compared my two recordings of "Armida", the note is somewhere between an E and F, so I tend to agree more with a high E.

The Wikipedia article already makes it abundantly clear that Callas MIGHT have sung F's in public, but it also points out that there is disagreement on this point. What is absolutely certain is that Callas sang E's in live performance, which have been documented on recordings. There is no such certainty about the high F, however. I myself have a package insert from a 1980 Time-Life box-set of Callas which refers to Callas vocalizing up to a high F-sharp, but this is only once source out of many, and it offers no proof of this assertion. Callas's teacher only speaks of her voice going to a high E (which is confirmed by Callas's recordings), so that is where the certainty about her range should stop. Shahrdad (talk) 14:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

In my book, it's write that Callas have touch the high F in Dilette Amiche during the representation of I Vespri Siciliani of the Florence's Musical May of 1951. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.125.173.59 (talk) 14:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

There are several recordings of this performance. Testament recordings recently released a CD which was taken from the original tape of this performance, and the final high note in the "Bolero" (Mercè, dilette amiche) is a high E. It does not matter what your book says or does not say. The fact stands that the audio evidence shows only an E, and all other literature concerning this performance indicate an E and not an F. Shahrdad (talk) 15:06, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

IT it right in front of the midwest buddhist temple, i dont know the address, sorry! the building is a law office now. Hope this helps! t3xt (talk) 01:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:PEA

Please have a look at WP:PEA, instead of undoing edits that are in line with Wikipedia's editing guidelines. Thank you. Toccata quarta (talk) 16:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)