SH4ever

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Hi! Thank you for the welcome and also for the links and the info about signing in talk pages. I already used some help pages to find what I needed but there are still many things that I don't know. I hope I do everything right for this talk message. -- SH4ever (talk) 12:37, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

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HDR (color volume) formats moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, HDR (color volume) formats, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. ... discospinster _talk 16:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I understand. Thanks ! -- SH4ever (talk) 12:39, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Color volume moved to draftspace

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Hi, I understand. Thanks ! -- SH4ever (talk) 12:41, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: High dynamic range formats (disambiguation) has been accepted

High dynamic range formats (disambiguation), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 19:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Thank you very much ! -- SH4ever (talk) 12:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Template:Dynamic range color representation has been accepted

Template:Dynamic range color representation, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^{Talk to me} 17:48, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! SH4ever (talk) 21:49, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Over-capitalization

Discussion moved here.

Moves and new titles

Please stop the moving and changing links to use your preferred new titles until you establish some kind of consensus for them. Is anyone supporting any of these ideas? Dicklyon (talk) 05:01, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

I didn't do any undiscussed controversial move. I do not understand why you revert the last move as I did respect your objection about caps and you didn't object about anything else. — SH4ever (talk) 06:53, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Please let's stop using the old page naming. I understand what you say about the caps but I do not understand why you move to the old naming. The old one was very wrong. Just read the lead of High-dynamic-range video and you can see it's not only about video. Read the section "videography" of the High-dynamic-range_imaging#Videography and you can see HDR video also means things outside the previous page. Please change the naming to whatever you want but do not use "high dynamic range video" as this isn't the name of the subject of the page. We have plenty of time discussing capitalization and other option than "high dynamic range video" but we should stop using the old naming now as they aren't accurate and spread inaccuracy. Best regards. — SH4ever (talk) 08:45, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

This source is very interesting to read as it explains things easily in a different context than usual. It's about HDR still images in the meaning of the page you named "video". — SH4ever (talk) 08:48, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

We can stop using the "old" page naming when it's no longer the current page naming. You need a proper RM discussion to change them (since I've objected to the changes). Dicklyon (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Exactly what is going on, in this case, is very, very difficult to say for one who is not involved.

There are discussions going on Talk:High dynamic range, there are discussions on Talk:High-dynamic-range video, there are discussion on this user talk page, there are discussions moved from here to User talk:Dicklyon, and there are multiple requests at RM/TR.

A few things are certain: High-dynamic-range video is the stable title. The title you have moved the article to, High Dynamic Range (display and formats), is mistaken both in regards to caps and the odd DAB, as Dicklyon has already pointed out.

I will remove your new request on RM/TR and suggest you to start 1 discussion on a relevant talk page. Sam Sailor 20:16, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think there is any other relevent page for that but I won't oppose. SH4ever (talk) 20:36, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

@Sam Sailor: Thank you for reaching me about that. I appreciate. SH4ever (talk) 20:44, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I think we'll need some time to clear out the many open discussions before trying to start over in a more unified way. You may yet get some input via the 3O request or the RM discussion with three "?" targets, or elsewhere. But by misunderstanding and misusing RMTR, and asking Anthony to do a move on a page with an RM pending, and claiming your relatively recent over-capitalized title is status quo ante, you have really created a great distributed confusion that as Sam says is very hard for an uninvolved editor to decipher or contribute to. Work on a coherent description of how you think the content splits up, and what you think good titles would be, in light of the feedback you've gotten so far (mostly just from me). Then be ready to try again in a few weeks or so. Dicklyon (talk) 21:10, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I did my best. I spent a lot of time. I do not even understand what is bothering you with the title "High dynamic range (display and formats)" as it don't use caps and have do not have accuracy issue. Even if you are fine with the old title, I do not understand why you oppose so much. People are familiar with saying HDR display, HDR format as much as they are familiar with HDR video. The title HDR video wasn't even put in place via a rigourous and complex procedural step. The guy who created the article could have choosen "High-dynamic-range display" even at the time of article's creation. By the way, I'm not opposed to "High-dynamic-range display" if you agree. Also, you have to know that I truly believe in your good faith and I respect all of your contributions. I'm not speneing so much time just to go into a childish edit war. I'm doing it because I realy believe it's hurting. Please do not take any of my opposition to video as something personnal. Best regards. — SH4ever (talk) 21:25, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

"High-dynamic-range display" is not worst than "video". From your point of view, they might even have no difference. So, maybe we could agree on that name, archive our previous discussion and propose it via a new simple RM. @Dicklyon: What do you think? — SH4ever (talk) 21:31, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

You can propose it, but it doesn't strike me as better, since "video" sensibly encompasses both displays and formats, while "display" omits formats, which you were saying was part of this topic. Maybe you mean to split the content into two articles, on displays and formats? Dicklyon (talk) 23:01, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Re the parenthetical (display and formats), it's a very odd structure for a disambiguator. We try hard to avoid "and" in titles, and I don't recall ever seeing it in a disambiguator. And then there's the number disagreement. And usually we use noun titles and noun disambiguators to say what kind of thing the title is. Here "High dynamic range" is not a kind of "display and formats", so this breaks the usual pattern. Better would be High-dynamic-range displays and formats, perhaps (where abbreviating to HDR might be OK, too). Dicklyon (talk) 23:05, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

"displays and formats" is good. SH4ever (talk) 23:15, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Whether it be abbreviated or not, I do not know but it's accurate in both cases so it's more a matter of stylistic choice. You have more experience with that, so I will follow your opinion. SH4ever (talk) 23:21, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

With the other staying at High-dynamic-range imaging, I think HDR displays and formats might fly. But wait for the open discussions to settle out first. Maybe someone will propose other ideas. I'm less sure about SDR displays and formats, since SDR is less recognizable, and maybe there's less content for that. Perhaps a broader article on Standard dynamic range is good; or leave it as Standard-dynamic-range video. It would be good to consider these together. Dicklyon (talk) 23:32, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

I agree with SDR. "Standard dynamic range" is good enough. Since the HDR display technology, the term "SDR" started to only be used for that meaning. People won't be confused. SH4ever (talk) 00:10, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages versus broad-concept articles

What you're trying to do in High dynamic range (disambiguation) really belongs in High dynamic range. See WP:BROAD. Dicklyon (talk) 14:49, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

I did previously tried to put in High dynamic range, that was reverted saying by someone saying it belong to the disambiguation. — SH4ever (talk) 14:55, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't see the edit or user you're referring to. Looks like you've been reverted on lots of things. Dicklyon (talk) 00:59, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Your mission and background

Your mission "Killing misconceptions about HDR and bringing Wikipedia back to truth!" is something you need to be careful about, per WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Stick to reliable sources that interpret the primary literature, and go light on the commercial PR sources. If there are things in WP that are untrue, by all means let's fix them. But inferring and implying "misconceptions" can be a bad direction, as it sets you up as the judge of what's right and what's not. I'd be interested, if you're willing, to hear more about your background, including your native language (which I'm guessing is not English, based on your writing). Dicklyon (talk) 04:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me that. I will be more careful and read more about that. By the way, ITU (which is top reliable source) clearly states in Report BT.2390 there are a lot of misconceptions about HDR (the color space). Yes I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for my writing. I'm French speaker. I have some extent of background knowledge in a lot of different areas and I'm able to find and understand reliable sources and research paper. I do not work in the area of HDR at all. It's a subject among what I study in my free time. I like what it can achieve and the explanation that were given to me weren't enough. This led me to here. — SH4ever (talk) 04:22, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't work in this area either (except in sound/audio HDR), but I did HDRI in the past, including the HDR rendering for Google Street View and Foveon X3 Fill Light. My advice is that you respect that a lot of good editors have come before you, and that although there's always room for improvement, wholesale changes need to be approached with care, and experience helps. I don't have a good picture of how or whether the French language context relates to your capitalization impressions, but WP has their own style of avoiding unnecessary capitalization, so try to respect that. Dicklyon (talk) 05:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

In French it's very similar to Wikipedia guidelines with some exceptions. From example, French and English would have be written "français" and "anglais" without caps. For our context (HDR), it's the same in French.

I see you capped "Haute Gamme Dynamique" in the French wikipedia, and moved the article on HDR-TV to an English title about formats. Do any sources cap Haute Gamme Dynamique? Looks rare to nonexistent. Dicklyon (talk) 23:11, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

I created the French page years ago at a time where the HDR technolgy related to displays was just at ots beginning. Lots of things changed since. The French page has a lot issues. I couldn't find the time to work on for now. The English main page and related pages still have numerous issues too. However I don't see "Haute Gamme Dynamique" in the French text. There is only the English word written in English "High Dynamic Range". — SH4ever (talk) 18:54, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

This diff; and this. But then you downcased the French and left the English capped in this diff. How odd. Dicklyon (talk) 00:24, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

That BT.2390 is interesting. Notice they don't cap "standard dynamic range (SDR) television" or "the perceptual quantization (PQ) and hybrid log-gamma (HLG) HDR signal parameters", and have an odd mix of caps for "high dynamic range". Dicklyon (talk) 05:11, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Report BT.2390 is indeed very interesting.

Yes, I noticed their use of caps which is also interesting. ITU has its own writing conventions. Look at how they write HEVC in the paper which defines it. Each type of writing has its own meaning. It depends on if we refer to the proper name or to the broad meaning of the words. — SH4ever (talk) 18:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Welcome back

From your brief retirement! Dicklyon (talk) 02:38, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. xD — SH4ever (talk) 18:32, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

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