Merrybrit

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Flag icons

Thank you for your contributions. However, as agreed at WP:FLAGS we do not use flag icons in this way. Best wishes, --John (talk) 23:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

ITN for MPs' expenses row

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DYK for American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Help with political consultant bio

Hi there, I came across your name in the edit history on Howard Wolfson when I was looking through various political consultant/strategists' biographies and wondered if you'd be able to help me. I've been looking for editors to assist with some updates to the biography for Tucker Eskew. An editor from WikiProject Politics had suggested finding an editor who has previously worked on similar articles, hence my reaching out to you. I have a conflict of interest, since I'm working on behalf of Mr. Eskew's firm, Vianovo, so I don't want to make any edits to the article myself. Instead, I'd like for a disinterested editor to review what I've proposed and make the changes if they're ok. If you have a little time and are able to help, my full request is on the article's Talk page. Thanks in advance! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:47, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

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Italian torpedo boat Pegaso (1936)

Thanks for copying and bringing this article in from the Italian Wikipedia. Please comply with WP:TFOLWP to provide attribution. Please clear up the red links created as we use Italian torpedo boat Foo and they use Foo (torpedo boat) for example. Also the references need to be checked and amended as necessary Lyndaship (talk) 07:26, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you translated text from ja:常備艦隊 into Standing Fleet. While you are welcome to translate Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When translating a foreign-language Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've translated content, disclosing the translation and linking to the translated page, e.g., Content in this edit is translated from the existing French Wikipedia article at [[:fr:Exact name of French article]]; see its history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{translated page}} template on the talk pages of the page you placed the translation. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have translated material before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. (t · c) buidhe 02:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Warship cost

Hello. This question has been discussed a number of times in the past. There are several problems with what you want to do, first and foremost being there isn't any context for the figure. Readers today won't know if 20 million Reichsmarks is a large or comparatively small sum a hundred years ago. Because of the way projects like this are paid for, they can't be adjusted using CPI-based inflation calculators. And even then, nobody uses Reichsmarks today, so you're going to have problems converting it to dollars, pounds, euros, or any other currency that might be relevant for readers. As for being able to compare costs, you're not providing that information; you're just assuming readers are going to click through every class in the series to see what the cost increases over time were. If there's some useful bit of information, we should present it plainly, not force them to guess what secret hoop through which they need to jump to find it.

Cost information is certainly useful information, but it would be much better to do so in a thorough manner in the Imperial German Navy article, or perhaps even better, the German Naval Laws article, which currently lacks any discussion of the spiraling costs that threatened Tirpitz's plan. There, you could have a thorough discussion about all of the factors that drove costs up over time, how Tirpitz tried to combat them, etc., in a way that would be useful to readers. Parsecboy (talk) 10:23, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@Parsecboy: I don't know about previous discussions of this, can you link them? I disagree that cost information needs context around it. Within an infobox cost needs as much context as complement or installed power, it is simply data relevant to the ship/class of ships. There's a reason that the ship infobox has a slot for costs, this information should be supplied where possible and supported by reliable sources. For example, practically every page on the RN's dreadnought classes has information on ship costs included (see Bellerophon-class battleship or St Vincent-class battleship or Orion-class battleship). We shouldn't prejudge how readers make use of this information. Merrybrit (talk) 11:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussions were years ago - it would take some digging to find them.

What's the purpose of providing the cost without context? It's a meaningless number. And we should not be in the business of bloating infoboxes with meaningless content that readers will simply skip over.

That WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not justification that something should be included. And none of the infobox fields are mandatory; they are available for when their use makes sense. Obviously the ice class field is only used in some articles. And I argue that when you have to try to convert from a dead currency and can't readily adjust it for inflation, it doesn't make sense to include it. Parsecboy (talk) 11:10, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I think this is the last time it was discussed [1]. I endorse Parsecboys views Lyndaship (talk) 11:17, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Every technical figure in the infobox is a useless number if you don't know how to use it. What is the meaning of 22,000 hp? Is it big or small? I gave you an example of how a reader might want to use cost information by comparing the costs between consecutive classes. Another reader might find cost information of German battleships useful while reading the federal budgets of Wilhelmine Germany. Again, we should not prejudge what our readers might or might not find useful.Merrybrit (talk) 11:42, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

@Lyndaship: thanks for the link but in that discussion I see arguments over the currency conversion/inflation adjustments, not over including costs. The ship infobox usage guide says: Ship original cost - The financial cost of building the ship, usually at the time of construction and using the currency of either the orderer or the builder. this is exactly what my edit did. Merrybrit (talk) 11:46, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Indeed the starting point was over adding inflation adjusted figures but subsequently editors stated their opinion both for and against about having any cost figures in the infobox Lyndaship (talk) 12:29, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't see a consensus for removing the costs when they are attested in reliable sources. Merrybrit (talk) 12:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I will just say that at this point, WP:SHIPS and its style guide needs a complete overhaul. That is my two cents. Llammakey (talk) 12:10, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but . . . almost all such efforts tend to degenerate into endless circular arguments sometimes rather absent facts. Consensus is often like herding particularly wild cats. Even when reached among "ship" people it sometimes runs afoul of "Wiki" people. A few of our consensus rules run foul of actual industry or naval expert rules. In my actual use of the site the greatest value of Wikipedia is almost always the links to more complete and authoritative references and even those require a knowledge of how to evaluate information sources. One "rule" I'd like to implement is that when a vessel was built as and primarily used as commercial vessel the naval infobox shall not be used for one brief, naval auxiliary period. Palmeira (talk) 13:57, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Considering the dead currency point and the usefulness of those costs within context of that economy, comparison between classes and such I think a brief coverage in text would be better. Then dead currency could be compared to dead currency and possibly link to any article about the economic situation at the time. With clear cites that would be interesting to some and in my view be more useful than a number in the infobox. On that topic there are many problems with those box elements. The box is useful as a quick reference for ship folks, but misleading as hell in some respects. Tonnage for example. Very few ships lasting more than a few years have a tonnage and even on completion they have different, special use tonnages. Many readers don't understand that GRT/NRT are measures of highly defined space, not weight at all, much less than the fact registers sometimes show the same ship at the same time with special tonnage of that sort for two great canals. Every modification tends to change tonnage, both spatial such as GRT and weight as DWT. Displacement and draft are variables — within basic stability limits. Those measurements? There are all sorts of "lengths" and any one may vary slightly according to the measuring authority. So, in one way that supports the argument that a snapshot, an almost meaningless cost number "fits" but also that within text is perhaps better since some context can be given. Palmeira (talk) 13:57, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

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A beer for you!

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