Jopower

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Sorry for the long wait on this... I usually remember the ~'s but miss them occasionally. I also know I was worse in earlier years. Will be more observant in future. Jopower (talk) 12:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Men against tanks

Thanks for contributing this to the anti-tank warfare article, but what page number is this mentioned on? I find manhandling a trench mortar into a direct fire trajectory position highly dubiousKoakhtzvigad (talk) 10:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Reply: I'm sorry I can't supply the pages from "Men Against Tanks". I checked it out twice some years ago from Colorado State University library (and hope it survived the flood a little afterwards). I am 100% sure the WW1 chapter of "Men Against Tanks" has the text to support me. As further support, I just now discovered this at http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/mortar/mort11a.htm where info on the 76 mm German mortar is presented. The early model is 100kg and the 5-6 man crew could manhandle it. Note this: "With the advent of tanks in 1917 some minenwerfer were modified to fire horizontally. As a short-range piece of trench artillery the minenwerfer was very efficient and was widely used throughout World War 1." The picture at bottom shows the newer version carriage with low angle capability clearly. For such a wide spread modification to be issued, some brave men must've proved it the hard way beforehand. (I do note it is wheeled, but I also see the stationary round base plate is between the wheels.)

I've been to the Kansas City WW1 museum and seen the mortars there. I've also seen the US WW2 80 and 120mm mortars in action at reenactments. They could be deployed in a similar semi-horizontal manner, but it's hardly recommended (but then so are throwing satchel charges and sticky bombs at tanks, ala "Private Ryan"). After reading "All Quiet on the Western Front" and other articles, I have little doubt the trained and hardened German soldier under orders or desperation couldn't handle it. Jopower (talk) 12:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Military history books are replete with misinformation. Even a WW2 60mm infantry mortar will disembowel if used as a shotgun, so I shudder to think what effect a trench mortar of WW1 would do to its gun team attempting a low trajectory firing. Perhaps they used padded cuirasses of the sappeurs to reduce the recoil since someone had to hold onto it during firing.Koakhtzvigad (talk) 15:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Museums have a way of sorting out the truth which books on this sort of thing get wrong/cockeyed. However the evidence is pretty strong that "Men Against Tanks" has it right. True, the first desperate attempts would be pretty scary, but then so is an enemy tank at close proximity. Also the crew did NOT hand hold a 200+ lb mortar to fire it. The heavy flat base of the mortar was placed against the outward-facing slope of the trench front wall so recoil isn't a problem, though aiming IS by hand. However exposure to enemy fire is obvious, hence the need for an improved manner of employment, dutifully accommodated by German arms makers in mere months(!). If you observe the pic at the museum site I mention above, the improved mortar's mounting appears to be well thought out. It has a 70-ish degree elevation sector to accommodate direct and indirect fire and it is stated that there is a low angle hand trigger so that a healthy shove down the pipe wasn't necessary at the last second. A suitable prepared emplacement with the muzzle just above the trench wall (or even behind a removable panel) is certainly within the thought processes of WW1 German personnel who had already given their snipers portable armored shields. Jopower (talk) 01:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion: add details of the various names or spelling.

A mention and description of the various names or spelling is missing: Kalymnos/Calymna/Calymne/(others?).