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Cladistics

Your opinion on 'traditional' versus 'historical' should have a citation. The problem I have with this article is that it resembles a personal essay, and it is left reflecting the views of the WP editor who visited last. EdJohnston (talk) 21:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Your user name suggests you could be an expert in a biological field. If you know Unwin's book, and believe it could be a reference for the use of traditional taxonomy, perhaps you could add it to the article. It would be interesting to know if Unwin has 'cladistic' in the index! EdJohnston (talk) 01:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Scale Chart

Hi, how do you do the scale charts?--4444hhhh (talk) 20:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Theropod Speed

Hi Dinoguy, i hope you had a merry christamas and a happy new year. You said that juvenile rexes had more ornithimimid leg proportions, what size, weight or age did they lose these? Also the newest speed theory for a rex is 18 mph, what makes this estimate more reasonable then the theory of it moving 24-25mph or should the latter not be ruled out( it seems a little "unfair" on the rex that hadrosaurs get to wizz of at 28 mph). Also while im typing, although there is no evidence of maniraptorian theropods hunting in packs wouldnt it be easier and safer to live and work in packs? Although the deinonychus find shows cannabalism, couldnt that just be a fatal confrontation with another pack trying to steal the tenontosaurus meat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC) I didnt mean the deinonychus having a turf war, more like hyanaes stealing kills of lions (or vice versa) but some members of th flock could have been to hungry to give up the kill and tried to protect it but were overpowered by the other pack. Also in the rex speed they had the same weight estimates (6-8 tonnes) for the 25 mph estimate as the 18mph one, and in the hadrosaurs, didnt they say it was certain tail muscles as they found it it had a muclier tail and backside and it was muscles their that powered its speed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 8 January 2008 (UTC) Also if maniraptorian theropods travelled in flocks wouldnt it make their hunting easier if they hunted together, if they live in flocks wouldnt it also mke more sense if they hunted together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC) Hi dinoguy, with the rex speed estimates, if they had the same weight estimate (6-8 tonnes) why were they different or would that be all the "Technical Stuff" on the computer. Also, apart from Edmontosaurus and Anatotitan, what other hadrosaurs lived alongside rexes to match up to the dino mummys proportions and do they know its species yet? Rex Build In the article it states that to different rex types have been found, gracile and robust, while these could be gender or age related, could it be that it was area and prey species related. Could some of the more robust rexes be designed to attack bulky , armoured ceratopsians and are more likely to have the engage in combat ansd sustain injury with their prey while the more gracile one was designed to chase faster moving hadrosaurs and ornithipods? Or would thse be utter rubbish as all prey lived in the same area? Hey dinoguy, in your theropod size graph were you using different estimates? As the rex was 12 metres and the gig was 13, usually they are bigger than that in your size charts. One the one in the gig article is is new or has been changed becuase i could swear its different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 22:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinohuy, Thanks for answering my questions. On the gig article on the picture of the gig skull it states it is 47 ft long, is this the largest estimat because i thought the biggest was 46-45 ft long. Also have you seen arthur weasleys gig pic? I belive it should be on the article, what do you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, in dino autopsy the hadrosaur running position was with its tail raised in the air and its front body closer to the ground with its arms tucked in, do you know what positions maniraptorian, tyrannosaur, and carnosaur theropods would have been in while running? Also the hadrosaurs was fast due to muscles in its tail, is there evidence of this in other dinosaurs? Lastly due to deinoychus sickle claws, the running speed has been reduced to no more than 20-25 mph, would this speed reduction apply to other maniraptorian theropods due to their sickle claws?Nice work on the new size diagrams by the way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC) I was the guy who made the estimastes as on the news the velociraptor speed was 25 mph so i thought deinonychus would be similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, my estimate for the deinoychus speed was more of a rough guess than a good estimate, and i was wondering it deinonychus may have been a little faster than i first thought. Velocirator's speed was 25 mph and deinoychus was bigger and had a longer stride length, would deinoychus have been faster than velociraptor? Also what science journels do you read fo dino info as i was wondering if i could purchase them anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC) Thanks for telling me were you get your dino info, it was on the news that velociraptor could run at 25 mph as it was the same computer that said rexes ran at 18mph and compsognathus, dilophosaurus and allosaurus speed was also tested. Thanks for telling me, if anything now i believe the rex estimates of 25 mph are more reliable, what do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC) Hi dinguy, i was wondering about speeds of smaller hadrosaurs such as parasaurolophus and corythosaurus and have their been any studys? If not, what would you say a reasonable estimate would be? Also in your size charts deinonychus was 11ft, in JP3 the deinonychus were 13ft i found a size graph of all jp dinos and the JP deinonychus seem huge compared to the ones in your size graph whens its only 2ft. im finding a link for you but in the meantime what dou you think to my Questions (including the hadro speed one and the rex speed one you missed). Heres the JP link.http://www.jplegacy.org/encyc/dinosaurs/UltimateJPchart.jpg Thanks for telling me all you know, i doubt T-rex would be 8 tonnes in the first place, 7 yes, but 8 no. The most reasonable estimate for the biggest T. rex found(Sue) was 6.8 tonnes which is close to 7. The weight estimate they were using for 25 mph rex was 6-8 tonnes. Also with smaller hadrosaurus weighing around 2.5-4 tonnes which is much less than big elephants, which can run at 25 mph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy in the utahraptor size graph it seems taller than in the giant birds one, also in everybook iv read with a size comparison the utahraptor always seems taller. You also said that its hard to get a good stencil for deinobychus, so why not use ArthurWeasly's picture as this would also give a good idea of the height which is not shown in the current deinonychus size graph(Im not saying its a bad size graph as like all the others its brilliant, its just doesn't show the height very well.) Lastly i read that you are making a Squamate size graph and im wondering how its going? I didn't mean to be nosey i just read it, i also wondered id i could help in any way as you said stencils would be hard to find( for the snakes i presume) and i have some good photos of komodo dragons from whn i went to indonesia in 2007 and i could search around for any good snake photos aswell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Hi dinoguy, il upload the Komodo dragon images as soon as possible,but one thing first, how do you up load images? Also there is a background on them but hopefully that wont change alot. Ive found a link with a good deinoychus image although it doesn't have alot of feathers but hopeflly that won't change anything on th size graph. Heres the link.http://critters.pixel-shack.com/GalleryA.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy il probably have the images uploaded by tommorow, have you seen the picture of the deinonychus in the link i gave you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, i was wondering about maniraptorain theropod feathers and most birds dont have feathered legs, their thighs are feathered but usually the have scaly legs and i was thinking this would be the case in "Raptors" also, although not all, some birds, usually birds of prey such as the Battleur Eagle(I think thats how you spell it) don't have feathered faces, most of their head is feathered but the featheres stop behind the eyes about, i wonder as they would need to use snouts to tear carcasses to pieces, tjis would be the case with "Raptors". This brings me on to my nest question, you said that wolves and lions don't care about the rotting meat trapped in their fur( although i think because they have fur not as much gets trapped in than feathers as usully its blood in the fur, not flesh.) Usually carnivores like wolves and cheetas are pack hunters and clean each other after hunts, this may support pack living and/or hunting and they may clean each other although this seems unlikely as they probably thought more like birds than mammals. Also you said large "raptor" foot prints were found fossilised, what made his footprints or don't the people who found them know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.48.204 (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, maybe it varied between raptors but unforyintaley we don't know for all yet, after reading what you said have any deinonychus fossils been found in Canada (Is Maryland in Canada i can never remember) and yes sometimes cheetas hunt in family groups but not all the time. Although they didn't need packs to groom, i still think they needed hunting together as the fighting dinosaurs fossil hardly shows the velociraptor getting off scott free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, do you have a high res image of the dave fossil? Also, hows deinonychus size grapg coming along?dId you have a look at the image on the critter-shack link, it could even be useful for other size graphs if you find a decent veiw. Hey Dinoguy, first off, i apologise i now i look back on the dragon images not all of their tail is seen, fortunatley theres a komodo dragon image on their thats in lateral view. Secondly you said thefighting dinosaurs gave evidence of velociraptor being a solitary hunter, not necciserily, the rest of the pack could have seen the sandstorm coming and fled,after the sandtorm they came back and fed on the protoceratops body(remeber it was missing limbs). Lastly great work on the new deinonychus graph, also when you get a good time and have finished the squamate graph, could you make me a smilodon populator graph? Sorry for any trouble it may cause. Hey Dinoguy, have you seen what i typed above as you haven't answered in a few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, thanks for accepting the smilodon offer and giving me the dave pictures, i never knew you had a whole list of requests! Maybe you should have a request page like Arthurweasly, what other size graphs are you doing st the moment? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, thanks for accepting the smilodon offer and giving me the dave pictures, i never knew you had a whole list of requests! Maybe you should have a request page like Arthurweasly, what other size graphs are you doing st the moment? D Hey Dinohguy, hows the smilodon graph coming along? I read one of your other messages, the one called Deinonychus(Sorry to be nosy), and i wondrred what is Senter (2006)? Hey Dinoguy, thanks for the great smilodon graph, looking at your deinoychus graph and comparing it with size comparisons in books yours is shorter but much more accurate of course, the ones in the book come up to an average humans shoulder, their neck isn't in an s shape at all its pretty much lined up with the spine. Why is theirs bigger, but not JP sized, also i found a skeletal diagram od deinonychus that had a shorter tail than in your size graph!Il see if i can find it but in the mean time what do you think to the deinonychus height in other comparisons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy, the diagrams wren't upright, just taller and its odd i could swear in the skeletal its has a shorter tail but then thats just me, did you use the diagram as the stencil for the graph? Also, in the diagrams in the book, one or two were fairly new and standing like in the skeletal diagram came up to the human shoulder but wre still 3.4 metres! it was odd but again what do you think to this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy, on closer inspection the graphs were slightly angled and that made them look taller, you also said they should be at 1 metre at the hip but is yours less than that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, great work on the Irritator graph, it looks great! Do you beleive that velociraptors claw could rip open a victim or were for stbbing into the neck, windpipe or arteries? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy! I was wondering, have any large theropod eggs ever been found? We know from fossils that hadrosaurs, ceratopsians and small theropods laid theirs in large clutches, do you think big theropods would have laid theirs in large clutches or small? Do you think they may have made a type os nest as well? Also is the DinoForum working on your compute? When you first gave me the link it was fine and the next day i was going to make an account, but the servers were down for ages and know all its is is a webpage with foreign writing on it, is this on your computer as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC) Thanks for tellng me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! I was wondering about biteforce, the lowest estimate for a rex is about 1-2 tonnes and the highest is about 4 tonnes, whic would you say is the most reasonable? A while back i asked you about spino bite force, a crocs skull can take alot of pressure and deal out alot of bite fotce and a spinos skull is built like a crocs and i was wondering how much bigger was a spinos skull than a crocs? I was also wondering if any carnosaur bite force tests had been done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! Have you seen my biteforce questiones above? I was wondering if you could please tell me what you use as the gig template in size graphs? Hey dinoguy!, did you see what i wrote as you haven't answered in for awhile now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! Are you busy as you haven't replied to me in two weeks now. And i was wondering, in the most northenly part of north america, how much snow would dinosaurs like a T.rex have seen? Also do you believe dinosaurs are warm-blooded(endothermic), i certainly do, if you read this please read and answer my other questions about bite force i left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:28, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, you pretty much anwered eveything. I was wondering what a good idea of a T.rex bite force —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! I was wndering about dinosaur parental care, do you think all dinosaurs would have shown it, or if it would have varied between dinosaur types? Do you also think it was exhibited by bot parents or just the female/male? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy! Thanks for telling me about parental care, i guess its one of the hardest things to estimate in dinosaurs but (for once) JP might og actually got something right, in the lost world, a pair of T.rex both help nuture the young, whilst in most popular culture its only the female and based on birds JP's estimate might actually be accurate! Also, i know allos had a weak but force but may have used high-speed attacks to use their jaw like an axe, and i was wondering if any allo speed tests had been done? I also remeber someone that a rex would hav had a bite force of tonnes and a gig had a bite force of 3 tonnes, do you think this is a good estimate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! When you read this please read the other things i typed above, anyways i was bored and read the T.rex talk page, and you said that the largest gig specimens(14 metres) were younger than Sue, sue was an elderly rex and a good deal bigger than younger rexes, this lead me to speculate that gigs might be even larger than 14 metres! If they are younger than sue then they could still get bigger, right? This lead me to believe new size estimates for a elderly gig, about 15 maybe even approaching 16 metres for an elderly gig, let me know what you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, First of i noticed your new size chart, very good! Just one thing, i never heard of an 18 metre Megalodon, i only know 15-16 metre ones, do you know where and 18 metre estimate is? Also about Allosaurus, it had an over-engineered skull that couldn't break bone with mere bite-fore but would the impact of its high-speed "axe attacks" contain enough force to break bone? Also there are three species of Dilophosaurus i think, is there any size differance between them? If so then could you please make me a Size Graph of the Largest and smallest species of Dilophosaurus, a coelophysis and a Human? If you could, thanks and have you considered putting the Smilodon Graph on the article? I think it would look great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, thanks for accepting to do the size graph, i never new the smilodon articles had one until you told me yesterday. As for allos, differant theropods are designed for differant prey, a rex wouldn't reach the bone of a sauropod and would struggle to hunt, an allo wouldn't hav to much trouble with hardosaurs but would struggle on ceratopsians. Also, in ArthurWeasleys Allo drawing,i noticed the knees are the wrong way i think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy, i meant it like this, in your size graphs theropods legs are bent like bird's legs in a shape like this > but in AW's drawing, its legs are bent like a humans, in a shape like this <. Also on the Thylacosmilus article it doesn't mention its size, how big was it and what animal today matches it size? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC) OK, thanks for explaining everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy! I was wondering if dinosaurs, particulally maniraptorians, may have exibited sexual display plumage, like a pheasant or peacock? it was pretty much brought on by a doodle of a Velociraptor i did earlier, and i also wonder if they may have been other sexual dimorphism between dinosaurs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 20:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy, while were on the subject of feathers, do you think the males plumage would have been camoflouged or a more flashy colour? Do you also think they may have puffed out thei feathers to make themselves look bigger and more freightning when under threat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, just popped in to say great work on the Spino chart it looks great, and how is the Dilo chart coming along? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 16 April 2008 (UTC) Thanks! It looks great, I'd put it on the article, quick before anyone else put another size graph like they did with the Smilodon. Its amazing how big Coelophysis looked in WWD, in real like it only came up to your hip, but in WWD it looked much taller, and on the Dilo article at the bottom of the page is a link called Dilophosaurus info, is that a real skeleton behind the man? I could swear its bigger than the one in your size chart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC) I knew there was something odd about that skeleton, anyway i read somewhere, that a large dilo could be 6.5-7 metres, is this true? Also in the giant birds graph, you claimed deinoychus as a bird, do you think it was not a dinosaur at all and 100% bird, and would you say a deinoychus is morec closely related to a pidgeon than a triceratops? also, great work on the anomalocaris size graph! Interesting Stuff! Would you say some theropods are real birds, or that birds are actually dinosaurs? Aren't Dinosaurs, Crocs and birds part of a group called Archosaurs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 24 April 2008 (UTC) No, actually! That makes things easier to understand, thanks. (by the way I'm not being sarcastic just in case you thought i was.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Achillobator

Dunno if you already know about this or already have it, but I found the original description of Achillobator here. Happy New Year! Sheep81 (talk) 02:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

May I request you again a size chart? Sorry for any inconveniance.

Erm, sorry to bother you again, but I am having a debate about feather presence in Deinonychus anthirropus, and my opponents are using size as a counterargument. So, if you could, could you make another diagram with Deinonychus anthirropus, Struthio camelus (Ostrich), Aepyornis maximus (Elephant bird), Utahraptor ostrommayum, and Gigantoraptor erlianensis? This needs even less priority that the other one, so don't do it if you want, but, please, comunicate me if you don't do it. I appologice if I consume too much time out of your schuledude, and let me know if you feel I am abusing your stedyness. Eriorguez (talk) 18:02, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll make sure to save both things you give me, as they are going to prove very useful in other debates. This one got ultimatelly won thanks to that. Thank you again.Eriorguez (talk) 14:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Erm, it's me again. I'm making a work about crocodilians and their relatives, and, in the subject of the giant prehistoric species, a size chart would prove to be pretty helpful. I have over two weeks to make it, so take your time. In any case, if you could make a chart with Sarcosuchus imperator, Deinosuchus hatcheri, Gavialis gangeticus, Crocodylus niloticus and Alligator mississippiensis. That's it, if you can and have some good side views of those animals, I don't want to cause much trouble.

In any case, thanks for your time.Eriorguez (talk) 12:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, good thing the situation was that favourable. In any case, this is excellent. Now, some self-made cladograms to show the relations, and done. Thank you. Eriorguez (talk) 12:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Deinonychus

If it’s not too much hassle, could you send me Senter (2006). There’s no urgency, it would just be usful for paleoart reasons. Thanks. Steveoc 86 (talk) 20:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Giant Birds Chart Problem

Hey. I just took a look at the recent chart of giant birds that you made. I think that it looks good, but you mixed up the color key for the Ostrich outline- green in key, red in image. Just a head's up. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 22:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I like your chart too, but when did scientists added the Maniraptorians to the bird group? Will this be the case for all coelurosaurs?--4444hhhh (talk) 23:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to admit, people are likely to find the name "Giantbirds" for this image confusing or controversial. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 01:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, is that Deinonychus a little big? Deinonychus: "Based on the largest known specimens, Deinonychus could reach 3.4 meters..."

Yours is just about 3.4 meters wide in the graphic, but if it were stretched out straight it would be more like 4 meters.

And hey, come to think of it, could D. even curve its tail like that? -- Writtenonsand (talk) 01:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Even though I support the theory that the maniraptorians (and probably the coelurosaurs) belong to the bird group, there is no genetic-evidence of Gigantoraptor or other maniraptorians of being birds (the only way that may make them birds is feathers). Right now the elephant bird is holding the record for heaviest bird of all time.--4444hhhh (talk) 05:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm using "bird" in the vernacular sense here, which, according to my dictionary, means a warm-blooded egg laying animal with feathers and wings. All the animals included match that criterion. "Bird" is not even a taxonomic group, as Amphibia is, so actually calling Deinonyhcus a bird is *more* appropriate than calling, say, Tiktaalik an "amphibian". It's correct from a descriptive standpoint, if not a cladistic one. And I don't think "bird" has been given a phylogenetic definition. Anyway, I wouldn't do this for an image intended for Wikipedia. This was done as a private request (see above) and not intended for use in an article. I can't imagine how it would be useful in any article given the totally random assortment of birds... so I felt I had room to give it extra 'personality'. I almost used CZJ instead of Voyager Dork as well ;) As for Deinonychus, you're right, it came out a bit big, but that represents about the max flexion of the tail, as far as I know, or did when the artist drew it. Finding a decent profile view of this animal is nearly impossible... And 4444hhhh, how are you defining bird? Aves sensu Gauthier? Sensu Sereno? Sensu Charig? Or maybe Avialae sensu Gauthier? Or sensu Senter? Dinoguy2 (talk) 13:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Updated. Dinoguy2 (talk) 13:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that "amphibia" is also an abandoned taxonomic group with no formal scientific use now.--Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 11:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Well to me, I defined birds has "any animal that has feathers is consider a bird". Oh, and what meant on my sentence is even though I like the idea the maniraptorians are consider birds then dinosaurs, there is no genetic-evidence.--4444hhhh (talk) 14:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

That's the Charig definition, which is the oldest. I agree with that also, but most modern scientists use Sereno's definition (common ancestor of modern birds and Archaeopteryx). There's no genetic evidence for any Mesozoic birds or dinosaurs--we don't have their genes! In terms of phylogenetic evidence, all maniraptorans are birds under that definition. And also dinosaurs--all birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs are birds. Figuring out which dinosaurs are birds is pretty easy, but varies based on what definition you use. Dinoguy2 (talk) 16:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

"I wouldn't do this for an image intended for Wikipedia. This was done as a private request (see above) and not intended for use in an article." -- Aha! That is a different kettle of Maniraptorans. In that case, this is none of my business. :-) -- Writtenonsand (talk) 17:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right. Most of your other scale charts include "Voyager dork" Actually, You are talking about the drawing of a man more famous on the Pioneer plaque. And, since he isn't greeting ET, why is he waving and not running for his life from hungry theropods? :) T.Neo (talk) 18:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Gah, can't believe I mixed up the Voyager gold record and Pioneer plaque. Of course the "dork" (name coined by somebody else in the Gigantoraptor chart CZJ discussion at image review, not me) should technically be Pioneer Dork. But then it sounds like he should be wearing a funny hat and shooting buffalo or something. But yeah, as this is not meant to be completely encyclopedic I swapped him out for CZJ. Gigantoraptor would be lonely without her. Neither seem too concerned with the stampede of theropods they're usually facing--this is intentional social commentary. Make of it what you will. ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 13:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Palaeontography

Hey Matt, could you email me on john.a.conway@gmail.com - I have a project I'd like to discuss with you. -- John.Conway (talk) 16:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you do non-non-avian dinosaurs?

I'm working on the Procellariiformes at the moment and am looking for some help illustrating a point. I need an illustration to show the range in size from the largest great albatross to the smallest storm-petrel. I guess the way to do it would be the conventional wings spread viewpoint (the one used to compare huge pterosaurs and albatrosses to biplanes), with a human with arms out to provide a sense of the thing. (A bit like this [1]. Would you be willing to do that? Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Image:Amnh28caudi.jpg

Image:Amnh28caudi.jpg is now at commons with the name "Image:Caudipteryx.jpg". Please update your User Page link, so the en copy can be removed. I'm happy to do this, but it is a User Page. Thanks. Finavon (talk) 10:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Also applies to many other images. If you are happy, I will update the gallery as I identify them - appearance will not change. Finavon (talk) 10:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

suchomimus

hey could you make a suchomimus size comparison graph? Im tyring to compaire different Spinosauridaes and I think suchomimus would be a great addition. 69.76.52.74 (talk) 02:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Help

Hi Matt. I've seen your scale diagrams and I think that are really better than the ones I did, so I want to know which program/s you use for create them with that form. Thanks. Cheers. Dropzink (talk) 09:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

But I have a problem, I can't found the exact size of the animal I want to compare in a scale diagram. It's Dunkleosteus, some sources says that reaches 8-10 meters, while other 6 meters. I was working on the article of spanish wikipedia and I think the info there can be a bit wrong. Also because I don't know how many species the genus has. But what I can do? It's difficult to find the most needed papers:( I've seen that you're an expert, not only in the dinosaur field, but in general paleontology, and if you have access to good Dunkle papers, I will be grateful if you give me some important data from them. Thanks again. Dropzink (talk) 04:39, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I have another doubt. It seems that some Dunkle papers have contradictions. Like these, here, it says that D. intermedius is the type species, while here, that D. terrelli is. And about the length, I didn't found a paper indicating a size of 8-10 meters, all the papers mention specimens of 6 meters. Excuse me if you feel bothered. Thnx!;) Dropzink (talk) 22:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you have access to JSTOR? There are very important and neccesary papers about the species and nomenclature. Dropzink (talk) 19:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I was seeing the papers of the AMNH Digital Library. They describes a lot species of Dunkleosteus, but I'm not sure if including them cause the papers are old and is very probably that latter studies made invalid or doubtful those species. What do you say? Dropzink (talk) 10:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know

I made some comments at the Talk:Pterosaur that you should review. 64.236.121.129 (talk) 15:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Scale chart for Megalodon

Hello dinoguy2. I have noticed that you are a very talented person and I want some help from you. I request you to develop a scale chart for Megalodon and the requirements are as follows:

• Megalodon shark, which should be 18 metres (60 feet) long (as this is a widely accepted estimate now.)
• A Great White Shark, which should be 6 metres (20 feet) long
• A 6 foot man.

Here is a source, which might be helpful for you: Megalodon information from SDNHM.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

LeGenD (talk) 11:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your effort. You have indeed done a great job. I will let you know, in case, I feel that any alterations are needed in the PIC.

LeGenD (talk) 1:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Aegyptosaurus

FYI: Talk:Aegyptosaurus#April Fools. 128.148.37.12 (talk) 03:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Image used on NG channel

• Hey, I watched some programme about metabolism on National Geographic channel, and they had this kind of collage of images showing different life forms, and I noticed that they had used this image you've taken, or one that looked exactly like it: [2]

So I believe they've simply been scavenging the web for free images to use, and found that one on Commons. So well, that's pretty cool, if it was that picture indeed! Funkynusayri (talk) 00:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

• Similarly, I looked for images of Nyctosaurus, because I wanted to fix this image: [3] (Is it correct now, by the way?) So I found this site[4] which sells fossil replicas or something, and noticed a print of your drawing of Nyctosaurus[5] is used, on the right of this image: [6] And uh, that's kinda funny too, images on Wikipedia sure get around! I still get impressed when I see pictures uploaded here used in other contexts for some reson... Anyway, is there a chance that your Nyctosaurus image will be fixed so it can be used in the article, it's a pretty cool image. Funkynusayri (talk) 17:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Taxobox and circumscriptions

My comment on talk:Bird was partly driven by some recent happenings on Uniramia. It turns out the namehas been used for a Phylum, then for a Subphylum, for a clade and then finally kind of unused and in limbo. The taxobox ultimately has been removed as in the fish article. Is there a way of using a taxobox in this case ? Shyamal (talk) 14:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

		Your Opinion is More Important than You Think Barnstar
		Please accept this barnstar as a token of my gratituity for your valuable opinion on what to do with Uniramia, the obsolete taxon. Although you may not know it, and probably very few people know it, your opinion has helped shape the now-improved article. Why don't you stop by and have a look at it?

(It may interest you to know you are the first Wikipedian ever to receive this award! Have a wonderful day!)

possible

Hey there, Im doing a report on Spinosaurus and I noticed you make excellent scale graphs. I was wondering if it was possible for you to make a scale graph of just a 17m long Spinosaurs and a 6ft tall person. If you could it would help me out alot. thanks! 69.76.54.135 (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you so much it looks great!!! 69.76.54.135 (talk) 09:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Cambrian Explosion

Can you do a drawing of the Burgess Shale fauna? And also, a scale chart for the most famous; Wiwaxia, Anomalocaris, Obania, Hallugenia, and Laggania. -Walkingwith08 (talk) 18:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric Park

Here is my test page for my big OR edits User:T.Neo/Prehistoric park Tell me what you think. T.Neo (talk) 18:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Dinoguy, I'll edit accordingly. T.Neo (talk) 08:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I tried to cut most of the content from the first episode here, but it still needs to be written in a more out of universe manner. You are welcome to make improvements to the the subpage. T.Neo (talk) 12:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm adding more plot material for you to edit, Since your edits make much more sense then mine. Thanks. T.Neo (talk) 13:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Burgess Shale

About our little talk, That Burgess Shale drawing was for the Burgess Shale article. So I think we should still talk about this here. -Walkingwith08 (talk) 15:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Prehistoric park

I hope you aren't to busy, are you still willing to help me with the prehistoric park test edits? T.Neo (talk) 06:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Carnivorous Ceratopsians?

Hey Dinoguy! I read an article about ceratopsids, (heres the link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/markwitton/522293984/in/set-72057594082038700/) and it said that there is slight possibility that ceratopsians may have been omnivorous, if the read the link the weirdest thing is it actually makes sense! In droughts hippos have been known to chase lions and crocodiles of herbivore carcasses, so in a really bad Creataceous drought, and needs must, do you think a ceratopsian may have chased tyrannosaurs of hadrosaur carcasses? Also in the fighting dinosaurs fossil, Mongolia was a desert, right? And in deserts if there is a drought thats bad enough, some animals well do anything, right? well, in the fighting dinosaurs, out of the Protoceratops and the Velociraptor, who was the one squirming on the floor, kicking madly with his claw to try and save his own skin... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC) Insteresting stuff, don't the deer and sheep live on islands that lack certain minerals so they eat the baby seabirds? Anyway, the elephant thing is just scary, i also have a question about raptor brains, would you say the more like a birds or a crocodiles?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 15:39, 15 May 2008 (UTC) Interesting stuff, if they brains are like a bird, they would eat like a bird. this ties with my Raptor bald head/neck theory(i don't want to start our arguement again), but you have to take in two factors, the shape of the raptors head, and the size off its prey, eagles don't have bald heads as they eat small prey such as fish and rabbits which are easy to disembowel, vultures eat large prey that they need to shove their head into, then theirs the shape of the head. Velociraptors tackled large prey but had a long snout that could have probed into carcasses. My idea is, smaller raptors may have had completely feathered heads as they ate lizards etc, although Velociraptor had a feathered neck but not head as it probed into carcasses with it's snout. Deinonychus and Utahraptor took on large prey like Tenantosaurus and Iguanodon, with short snouts, they had bald heads and necks but males may have had a crest of feathers or quills for display that could be flattened when feeding, they may also have had a neck ruff/mane similar to some vultures, also other parts of the body on all raptors may have been scaly, such as the legs, as all birds have scaly legs, and the hands, so the feathers don't get messy or in they way when hunting or carrying things. What do you think?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 21:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC) I think my assumptions about what they ate are reasonable, lions have short fur and a rough tounge thats very good at cleaning, they also don't shove their heads right inside the carcass unlike vultures. Have you seen they new weight estimates on the Dinosaur Size article! They list a charch at 15 tonnes, a gig at 13 and a rex at 9! What do you think? I think they are way too heavy personally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 21:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC) You added them!? What was the method used to estimate as i still think they are too heavy. My speculation about feathers comes from their brain, if had had a bird's brain and ate meat, it ate like a vulture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC) But not all vultures eat meat. Anyway, about the weight, im taking it with a 5t grain of salt alright, Gigs and Carchs were only 2-3 metres longer than a rex, but weight 5-7 tonnes more, and were meant to be lightly built! And im having difficulty believing a rex could be be "Built for Speed" and weigh 9 tonnes and only just go over 10 mph, let alone 25 mph tops! Since you said you thought they were a bit big, what would you say a more reasonable etimate would be? How would they catch prey? Hadrosaurs and iguanodons could have been fairly fast moving, ceratopsians are a grey area when it comes to speed, but have the pontential to move faster than they look with their rhino like physique. How would a 9 tonne rex, 15 tonne carch or 13 tonne gig, chase down prey!? Sure gigs and Carchs may have hunted sauropods, but a ceratain amount of speed/ agility is required to avoid injury from them which is unlikey with these weight estimates, if you believe them, most large theropods were probably almost pure scavangers. Well, i guess we all believe differnt estimates, i believe we should take alot of things about dinosaurs, like weight, speed and other things with a 5t pinch of salt until we have concrete evidance for them, the only thing that can give us evidence is the only thing we will never have, a living dinosaur. Btw, great work on the new quetzal size graph, on the subject of azdarchids, did you hear that many scientists now think they were bad fliers, and lived mostly as ground dwelling quadrupeds, feeding in marshed and mud flats but scavanging carrion when the oppurtunity came.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 08:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC) Wow, they seem so much smaller when flying, the comparison with the man and Hatzegopteryx was the one they used in the paper. Also may i request another size graph from you? This is your first modrn day request as it is for the Nile Crocodile called Gustave estimates are unsure of his size, but it is likely he is 25 ft long, the largest nile crocodile ever recorded, i want an idea of his size compared to people so you graphs came to mind immediatly, it would be extremly useful and would be good on the article too. If you could do it, Great! and thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC) Thanks, the chart is great, don't worry to much about his size so long as its 6-7 metres. Gustave is the largest, smartest and mpst resilient nile crocodile ever, no one knows his exact size as know ones measured him, he's to smart for all their traps, again, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd think that this predatory instinct should be listed as an exception for extreme circumstances. The instance of hippos you mentioned is such. Bob the Wikipedian, the Tree of Life WikiDragon (talk) 23:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Fossil range

Okay, I can back off on that. Just to get an idea of what you want, here are a few odd ones I came across-- what is the generally accepted way to do the following?

• Early Cretaceous to Late Cretaceous
• Quaternary (for recently extinct, no fossil history) (on top of that, the family shows "Quaternary to Recent" -- input?)
• Middle Mississippian Carboniferous

Let me know. I'll work on fixing my mess sometime in the next day. Thanks for flagging me before I made an even bigger mess! Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 22:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Found another odd one from Grasshopper: Phanerozoic (Permian-Triassic, 250mya) to Recent

Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 22:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I have fixed all instances I worked on (didn't take more than a few minutes, thankfully!), except the grasshopper and the species which went extinct during the Quaternary with no prior fossil record (or fossils dating back only to 1600s, 1800s, 1900s), mostly marsupials and a manatee. Let me know what I should do with these. Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 23:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've removed a few "Quaternary" lines from most of the articles I wokred on and kept "Recent" in only the ones of which we actually have fossils (Rodriguez solitaire, two wallabies, and a kangaroo rat). I'm assuming (by the definition on Fossil) that found bones, kept skulls and artificially preserved bodies count as fossils, so long as the animal is extinct. Still unsure what to do about that grasshopper. Thanks for helping me keep Wikipedia sane. Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 00:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Apparently insect fossils are common in the P-Tr extinction event. According to Changhsingian, the extinction occurred during the Permian, and immediately after would have been the Triassic. I'm thinking "Late Permian" is adequate.

Looks like I made more mess than I thought-- I see you're replacing "to" with hyphens. Thanks for being friendly about all this. It's not often that I can upset someone and yet they act forgivingly. Makes me want to go look for a barnstar after I clean up the mess. Unfortunately, this mess will probably have to wait until tomorrow, as I need to look for a better job yet this week. Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 01:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

That's funny...I didn't revert any of those back to mid-Cretaceous. I actually thought I was helping clean up poorly done fossil ranges. Maybe my unknowing action will help the push. Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 02:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Guess what? No more "to"'s, (however you format that...), all hyphens now! Thanks for letting me know ASAP. I've also posted a new discussion at WP:TOL in hopes of resolving the whole molecular-divergence-appearing-in-the-fossil-range thing. Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 14:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikiproject Fancruft

Hi. After hearing a few of your comments about articles about television programmes when disscussing my Prehistoric Park rewriting excercise (Which is in the doldrums at the moment) and being positivly horrified at some other articles about fiction, I decided to start Wikipedia:Wikiproject Fancruft. I desprately need members to get this off the ground. If you are interested, and aren't to busy, would you consider joining? Thanks. T.Neo (talk contribs review me ) 09:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

DAB links

Hi Dinoguy2, Sorry for the confusion over the disambiguation links for Reptile - Sauropsida. I was attempting to standardise the link for all pages. Never checked where sauropsid redirected to. I've fixed the changes that I've made, and have included that change in my recent edits to articles. Cheers for pointing that out to me! Mark t young (talk) 09:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

IGM

Hi Dinoguy2, Any chance of having a Wikipedia page for the Institute of Geology, Mongolia in Ulan Bator? So many fossils have IGM 100 numbers that it would be nice to have a list somewhere that could be added to as more fossils are added. It took me quite a while to even find out what IGM stood for, I dropped the acronym onto the IGM disambiguation page but there was nothing in Wikipedia for it to point to. Please put out the word that an extra dinosaur-related page for this is needed.Mollwollfumble (talk) 05:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

You once said Birds are technically reptiles.....

What did you mean by that? How are they technically reptiles? ScienceApe (talk) 01:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I belive he said that because birds are also descendants of the last common antecesor of all extant reptiles. Also, Reptiles is what amniotes with do not belong either to mamalia or aves are classified. But, unlike mammals, aves are not basal to the whole of actual reptiles, but are actually a crown group of them. Not to mention, they are the closest living relatives to crocodiles; and both crocodilians and lizards are closer to them that to turtles. Take a look at the cladogram in the Reptile page:

Reptiles are a paraphyletic group. The group can be made monophyletic by including the birds (Aves).

...

Well, at least, that's the most reasonable explanation, and you were asking for the personal reasons of another person. But I guess this may be what he wanted to say. Eriorguez (talk) 12:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yup, that's pretty much it. See also my response on ScienceApe's talk. Dinoguy2 (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey thanks for the info, but I thought that mammals did evolve from Reptiles? Like the Dimetrodon, and other mammal-like reptiles... ScienceApe (talk) 23:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, thank you. If we went a little further, why don't they consider reptiles and mammals amphibians then? Since their common ancestor was amphibian like? ScienceApe (talk) 23:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Little concerned about this image

http://up.wiki.x.io/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Longest_dinosaurs1.png

This image seems to indicate that the Amphicoelias is by far the most massive dinosaur ever, but the article on it, gives estimates that are far less than the Bruhathkayosaurus. ScienceApe (talk) 01:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Gigantoraptor

Hey, is the Gigantoraptor, the largest feathered dinosaur that we know of? ScienceApe (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Requesting assistance

Hey Dinoguy,

user:Jbrougham and I were working on Archaeoraptor in preparation for GA and it turned out to be more work than I expected. Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Retractable Claws

Hey Dinoguy, i was watching dino day on discovery channel and in china they said they found a dinosaur with retractable claws, have you ever heard of this and if so, which dinosaur is it?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 08:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC) Ahhh, thought there was something wrong, while were on dromeosaurids, i think i have found the "true", jurassic park raptor, in terms of size. Deinonychus is too short only coming up to the ribs, utahraptor is too tall, so what about achillobator? At 4-6 metres long, he would be tall enough to look a human directly in the eye if my size height estimates are correct, so isn't he the tru Jp Raptor? What do you think?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 17:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC) Hi Dinoguy, when you read my comment above let me know what you think, i come t you today about rex speed(Again!), i was looking at that 40mph compy speed tests and compared the dino results to the ostritch/emu results and found that for anything larger an ostritch in the test would be at least 5mph, max 10mph toom slow, meaning a 25mph(in my view) is more likely, i also found it hard to believe that dilos and allos had 20 mphs top speed. Anthing smaller than emu was 5-10 mph too fast, meaning the compy didn't wizz of at 40 mph, which seemed highly unlikely too me. Can you also give me a good rex bite force idea? All i want is what you think i good idea for its bite force is, because from what uiv read it could be as low as 2 tonnes and as high as 22000 tonnes, both of which i don't believe, so what would you say is a good estimate? Also, was dilo a carnosaur or a coelophysid, i can never remeber.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC) Surely a 4 metre achillobator would be able to look a human in the eye? Also, about rex bites, a while back (1-2 years maybe) i read a paper about rex and croc bite force and by scaling up or down with the numbers and taking in issues like jaw size/shape, teeth design etc. They worked out pretty reliable bite forces for a gig, carch, spino, something else and an allo i think. The only problem is the rex bite was 4-5 tonnes which is a little weak. If i can find the papers again i might be able to scale up slightly to get a fairly good idea of other theropods bites, however finding the paper will take ours but i believe i have the data from the paper somewhere close, when ive done my setimates il tell you and show you.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 15:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC) Hey dinoguy, here are the stimates, ehat do you think? Rex-6.4t-13.4t, Gig-4.3t-11.3t, Spino-4.6t-11.6t, Allo-2.2-3.2, Personally, i think the spinos may be a tiny bit too high, and once i might some nut who said an allo had an 8t bite force! Anyway, what do you think?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 15:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC) Can't remember, it was about 2-3 years ago by someone who had been doing loads of studies on tyrannosaurids then using their bite forces and crocodile bite forces to create those estimates while taking in skull size,teeth size ect, i took down the bite force data but thats about it unfortunately. Also here is the carch bite force. Carch-3.9t-12.9tBamboozlingbert21 (talk) 15:22, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Question on the science board

Hey there's a question on the science board which I think you might be able to answer. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Archaeopteryx_.2F_dromaeosaur_scaly_muzzle.3F ScienceApe (talk) 01:30, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

		The Guidance Barnstar
		For answering my questions and other people's questions on dinosaurs, I give this barnstar to you. I'm sure I will have more questions for you in the future as well. ScienceApe (talk) 16:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, another question that you may know about. Regards dinosaur intelligence. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#sentient_dinosaurs ScienceApe (talk) 19:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

new image

I had noticed that your image was changed to a svg file. But why? Your previous image was much better. 69.76.53.232 (talk) 16:43, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Size comparison of selected giant theropod dinosaurs

Size comparison of selected giant theropod dinosaurs

About platypus evolution

Hey I don't know if this is in your area of expertise, but I'll ask anyway. Regarding the platypus, according to this, http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Platypus#Evolution it seems the platypus contains some genes that are more similar to birds. This I found unusual because mammals evolved from Synapsids, and not birds, which evolved from true reptiles as you put it. So basically I'm asking how do you explain this similarity with birds, when mammals did not evolve from birds? ScienceApe (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I would like to know what kind of sex chromosomes reptiles have. The article said, "the sex chromosomes of the Platypus are more similar to the ZZ/ZW sex chromosomes found in birds.", well if amphibians and reptiles don't have those chromosomes, then that would raise a lot of questions about what platypus evolved from. The article in Nature said that the platypus shares two genes found previously only in birds, amphibians and fish. I'm not sure if they are referring to the sex chromosome though. But even if they are, they are insinuating that reptiles don't have those sex chromosomes. Well that's strange because birds evolved from true reptiles and not synapsids which probably did have those sex chromosomes. If reptiles don't have those chromosomes, well it raises a lot of questions. ScienceApe (talk) 17:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

About reptilian sexual chromosomes: Crocodilians get their sex determined by hatching temperature; while Squamates have ZZ/ZW, as seen on the female Komodo that layed eggs by herself, and, out of 11 eggs, 7 were male, and 4 did not hatch. Eriorguez (talk) 14:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

So if squamates, birds, and monotremes are all ZZ/ZW, ZZ/ZW is probably plesiomorphic for Amniota, and the condition in mammals is an apomorphy. Haematothermia can stay dead. Good research team! ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 01:36, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting. Looks like the platypus is a very old animal that still retains characteristics of synapsids. ScienceApe (talk) 22:48, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Theropod Speed

Hey dinoguy! From looking at how long raptor and human legs are and comparing the speed, I think I have come up with some "fairly reasonable" raptor speeds. Velociraptor-Due to short legs and size only about 15-20 mph. Deinonychus- From fairly medium size anything from 18-22 mph. Achillobator- Legs almost as long as human, therfore around human sprinter-ish speed, 25-30 mph. Utahraptor-Fairly long legs giviing it a speed pf 30-38 mph. What do you think of my estimates?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 16:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Wow, i underlooked this! But if anything wouldn't achillobator have more buff legs as it had bird-reptile muscle density and it has to run alot for food as it was a predator.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 14:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, another question for you

Regarding the extinction event, it seems that it wiped out all of the larger lifeforms like sauropods and large theropod dinosaurs. It seems that the extinction event made the environment hostile to larger animals but not smaller animals. So I guess we can assume that small dinosaurs survived? Could we say that all of the small dinosaurs that survived were theropod dinosaurs that eventually evolved into birds? ScienceApe (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting thank you. Just a quick follow-up question, were there a lot more large dinosaurs than small dinosaurs during the extinction event? ScienceApe (talk) 01:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Swimming

Hey I posted a question over here a little while ago, http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Tyrannosaurus#Swimming.3F

Your input would be greatly appreciated as always. ScienceApe (talk) 22:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Jurassic Fight Club

Hey Dinoguy! Just wondering if you know about the new series starting on the history channel next Tuesday called Jurassic Fight Club. It takes 2 or 3 dinosaurs from the same time and using dinosaur forensics, sees who would win in a fight. Personally i think it looks quite good and will hopefully be very interesting.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 14:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC) I hear that, were not getting here in the UK either.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 08:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Question on the reference desk

Hey there's another dino question the reference desk that you might be able to answer, http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Predatory_Dinos ScienceApe (talk) 23:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey, there's another one that you might be able to answer if you feel like it.

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Triceratops_vs_Tyrannosaurus_Rex ScienceApe (talk) 16:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Apex Predator

After watching a show on the History channel called Jurassic Fight Club I was curious to know what the apex predator was for each environment. I was hoping you could tell me what the apex predator was for the fowlling environments:

1.North Africa about 95 million years ago 2.South Argentina about 90 million years ago 3.North America about 67 million years ago 4.Mid-Asia about 67 million years ago

Thanks! 72.129.158.17 (talk) 02:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, since you're an IP and don't have a talk page yet I'll just reply here. Determining what the "apex" predator is in a given environment isn't an exact science (if it's science at all, seems more subjective description to me. But anyway.). Especially in Mesozoic dinosaurs, in which case there are often multiple large predators in any given environment. The common explanation for this (that I agree with) is that each large predator probably occupied a different role with different prey, so that in these cases there was no true apex predator the same way a lion is said to be apex on the modern African savanna. Keeping this in mind I'll try to answer your question:

• North Africa--I assume you're talking about the Baharija Formation fauna. This is a prime example of what I was talking about above. There are no less than three gigantic carnivores in this environment, which was a marshy delta with mangrove-like forests and large expanses of flood plain. Spinosaurus likely specialized in the gigantic fish that lived there, huge species of coelocanths. Then you have Carcharodontosaurus and Bahariasaurus (probably the same as Deltadromeus). Not sure what they were eating, but probably titanosaurs (like Paralititan), which were the main herbivores, and each other. Either one of these would be a candidate for apex predator, we don't know enough to say if one or both were.
• Argentina--Depends. There are a few distinct formations from around this time. I'm guessing you mean the one Giganotosaurus comes from, the Rio Limay Formation. It was the only large carnivore in that environment that we know of, so a pretty clear case of apex predator. Another formation from a little earlier than this is the Huincul Formation, where you find animals like Mapusaurus and Argentinosaurus (Giganotosaurus did not live alongside Argentinosaurus, rather sauropods like Andesaurus and Rebacchisaurus.
• North America--67 million years ago is a pretty hugely diverse set of environemnts and different combinations of animals to be talking about. However you're in luck, because the only game in town for any of them was T. rex. It was the only giant carnivore left in North America by the late Maastrichtian stage. I'm not yet convinced Nanotyrannus is not just a juvenile T. rex, but even if not, it's far too small to have been competing with anything but juvie rexes (which may have even occupied a different niche than adults, going after smaller, faster prey).
• Mid-Asia: I assume you mean the Nemegt Formation. Unless Deinocheirus was some kind of gigantic carnivorous nightmare jabberwocky (who knows?), Tarbosaurus is your guy. The only other theropod that was certainly carnivorous was Bagaraatan, only 14ft long.

Hope that helps!Dinoguy2 (talk) 03:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Lesothosaurus

Hi Dinoguy, Earlier today, you removed the illustration on Lesothosaurus, a reaction, I assume, to Butler et al.'s new Ornithischian paper, where Lesothosaurus is classified as a thyreophoran. It's an interesting idea, but the authors admit in the paper that "statistical support for this position of Lesothosaurus is weak". Aside from a very tentative placement of Lesothosaurus within a clade of armored dinosaurs, what is the rationale for removing the image? Firsfron of Ronchester 08:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for watching out for things like this, Dinoguy. It's a shame about the image. Another thought: when an approved image is removed from an article, some sort of note should be made on the image approval page, and the image should also be removed from the approved gallery, etc. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Scale charts

I was wondering if you would be willing to recreate the scale charts in SVG format instead of PNG. SharkD (talk) 08:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

NEED MOOOORE!. Right now you have given me a severe addiction to scale charts. Need my next doze! It's been a while and in the rehab they told me I am a hopeless fiend... Even a scale chart of a treeshrew and a mammoth would be fine.... ANYTHING!!! (delete my stupid comment if you want... just DO A SCALE CHART!)--Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 17:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Theropod Intelligence

Hey Dinoguy! When they compare brain scans of allos/rexes, etc. They always seem to find its near identical to a croc's brain, do you think large theropods were as smart, smarter, or dumber than crocs? As crocodiles are very intelligent reptiles, capable of learning quickly, planning, and possible pack hunting. also, do you know if anyone's ever done a monitor lizards brain scan? I want to know what it's like compared to a crocs.Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 09:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Interesting, theropods may be smarter than we give them credit for, also reading some else's question, gigs didn't live alongside argentinosaurus?! A part of me just died.;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 18:52, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Copyright permission

Thanks for the note! I wasn't aware of the non-commercial use clause in Commons. There is a question though when an image is uploaded by an author on two different sites such as Commons and dA but with a slightly different license. On dA for instance it is clearly stated that it is licensed under CC but add two additional clauses which are "for non commercial use only" and "no derivative work permitted". Since these are the same images which one of the license should be enforced? The more or the less restrictive one? In the end, all these licenses were created to protect the rights of the author (i.e. the copyright holder) against some of the most blatant rights violation (at one point someone was selling T-shirt with my dinosaur images on eBay ...) and the non commercial use seems a logical extension (the author has not given up his/her copyright so you can't sell something belonging to him/her without his/her permission, the author still being free to accept/deny the request/and any selling of an artwork means reproduction of the original so this could be considered as derivatie work). It is also a simple matter of courtesy to ask for the permission of the original author (this is easy to do and always appreciated). Ah, the intricacy of all these policies... Cheers! ArthurWeasley (talk) 05:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Another "versus" type question

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Who_would_win.3F

I'm sure you can set them straight. ScienceApe (talk) 21:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Tyrannosauridae

Hey, I've noticed that you are the major contributor of the article. I have been doing some cleanup of the article, and if don't mind, I will nominate it for wp:GAN. Thanks, Nergaal (talk) 04:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Another Scale Chart Request

Hey Dinoguy! Im looking into some Late Jurassic Carnivores at the moment, and one of your size graphs would be helpful and greatly appreciated. If you could, can you make a size graph with the average and largest sizes for Ceratosaurus and Allosaurus? Also, could you put the 12.1 metre epanterias, which i believe is just a big A.fragilis, whats your opinion on epanterias? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 08:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Tuatara

Just a quick note to let you know that the discussion on whether or not "reptile" should be used for the tuatara has been moved to a wider audience at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Amphibians_and_Reptiles#Tuatara where there's a wider audience and the possibility of a vote. Mokele (talk) 11:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Did I miss something? Why should tuatara not be considered a reptile? Telling me that dinosaurs and crocs should not be considered reptiles would make more sense (since "reptiles" including them but not birds is paraphyletic).--Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 17:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles: Rollcall

At WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles, we recently did a purge of the members list, which your name was on. Please re-add your username as well as your area of expertise at our list of participants if you plan to stay active in this Wikiproject. Also, a discussion is going on regarding the standardization of taxonomy in lizard articles, located in this section. We'd like to have some more voices in this matter. Thanks everyone! bibliomaniac15 23:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Giganotosaurus

Hey Dinoguy, when you read this be sure to take a look at my size graph request too. Thanks in advance. Anyways, the largest estimate for a giga is about 14 metres/47 ft from fragmentary remains right? Do you have a link to anywhere saying this? I'd love to see it. Also, out of the various carch estimates from 11 to 13 metres, and from very low(3 tonnes) to very high(12 tonnes) which would you say is the most reasonable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 18:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC) I see, thanks for the size graph, whilst i don't think 14 metres should be ruled at, what do you say is the biggest gig size? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC) Yeah, seems reasonable, but still, i don't think 14 m based on that jawbone should be ruled out anyway, and then theirs my age theory, but we need more specimens to see if its true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Pachyrhinosaurus

Hey Dinoguy2, thanks for the info and the name change. I've heard of it but can't afford to buy the monograph :/ Cheers. ArthurWeasley (talk) 04:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Tyrannosauridae images

Hi, Dinoguy2, I'm doing the GA review for Tyrannosauridae. One thing I noticed is a lot of scaled-down images where the text is illegible. I think it would be better to use Template:Annotated image for a lot of these (examples at Template:Annotated image/doc/Samples), as it can scale text independently of the image scaling and allows you to enlarge the "canvas" to allow annotations even if the actual image has narrow margins - for example the "biramous limb" images at Opabinia and Arthropod are different sizes, bu the text is the same size (Arthropod's "Segmentation" section contains 3 uses of Template:Annotated image, and the "Arthropod head problem" diagram shows how much it can do).

The part of this that directly concerns you, if you're kind enough to take it up, is the "Sizes" image in Tyrannosauridae#Description. IIRC from an old Talk:Dinosaur discussion, you have a kit of SVG pieces you can assemble into these "sizes" diagrams. Would you be able to do the following fairly quickly?

• If you can upload a version of Image:Tyrannosauridaescale.png without the colour code legend (please put this in the image page's "Description" section) and without the text that explains the length and height arrows (but keep the arrows), I can wrap Template:Annotated image round it to provide legible text.
• IMO Tyrannosauridae#Description needs another size comparison of tyrannosauridae with non-tyrannosauroid theropods - for example T rex and the smallest tyrannosaurid, Spinosaurus aegyptiacus (biggest theropod so far), Epanterias amplexus and the smallest allosaur, and any small Cretaceous or late Jurassic theropod, plus the inevitable hapless human.

If you can handle these, I can handle most of the rest. Then I'd suggest making templates of these images and saving in them in some useful place, e.g. a sub-page off Wikiproject Dinosaur. Someone showed me how to index them as well, so I'd do that one it's agreed where to store them and how to link them from the project page. Thanks -- Philcha (talk) 16:29, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about your hard drive - come to thank of it, I think you may have mentioned it in a similar conversation at Talk:Tyrannosaurus earlier this year. Don't worry if it's a lot of trouble, I should try out the Annotated image approach on the existing scale pic first, as I can easily remove the legend from that. -- Philcha (talk) 07:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up about the sizes image. BTW I was only the GA reviewer for Tyrannosauridae. -- Philcha (talk) 04:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

South American Carnivores

Hey Dinoguy, im doing a little work and research on South American Cretaceous Carnivores, and could you tell me what other dinosaurs were contemporaries of Carnotaurus Sastrei and Giganotosaurus Carolinii? Also, how the size graph coming along? Thanks in advance.

That is weird! Where in South America are Carnotaurus's fossil finds? Maybe it could have preyed on Saltasaurus? Also, while were on the subject on Carnotaurus's hunting, how do you think it used it jaws? Their so odd, maybe, being similar to a bulldogs it applied a stranglehold with them on a sauropods neck?Bamboozlingbert21 (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC) Yeah, something like that, either that or they were 100% cannabalistic....or herbivores!:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Birds are Dinosaurs

I was reading the talk page for the bird article. You are right. Birds are dinosaurs. I say that a lot and people don't believe me. They think it's weird when I say that the kiwi is my favorite dinosaur.

I also would like to say that you are a great artist. I think the Epidendrosaurus looks very cute. I like feathered dinosaurs, especially the ones that are a lot like birds. --Vuerqex (talk) 13:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Crocodilian size comparison image

Dinoguy2, do you happen to have a layered version of Image:Crocodilians scale.png for editing? I like the basic design of this image a lot, but I would like to make a special version for the Deinosuchus article that shows the different size estimates of that crocodilian. It would be very helpful if I had a version with original layers that is designed for programs like Photoshop or Gimp. FanCollector (talk) 03:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

New image on Deinosuchus

I've created a new image for this article: Image:Deinosuchus size estimate comparison chart.svg, based on the layered graphics file you sent me. I'd appreciate it if you could look over it and let me know if you think it is OK. Thanks! FanCollector (talk) 23:38, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• I have updated the credit on this image's page to include your full name and a link to your user page, as requested. FanCollector (talk) 02:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Duriavenator

You recently added the name Duriavenator to the List of dinosaurs. I've Googled it and found nothing. I've Asked it and found nothing. It's not on Olshevsky's list. Are you operating under some insider information here or something? Abyssal (talk) 09:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

These names tend to appear in dinosaur circles (like the DML) several days before they start showing up in Google, since Google just uses robotic programs to find pages. It takes a while for the bots to find something new, so it may take a while for names to show up on Google. It's a valid peer-reviewed name, and I've blueified it. Feel free to expand. :) Firsfron of Ronchester 14:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Firs. You're right, search engines and (especially) Olshevsky's list are not great places to find brand new information. It's DML or bust! ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 22:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I considered DML, but though any mentions would cause a link to the archives to show up. How often do the archives update? Abyssal (talk) 23:21, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe the DML archives update every few days. Duriavenator was mentioned there on the 16th, and is showing in the latest archives today (the 18th). So there seems to be a 1 or 2-day lag. Google is still only showing Wiki in the search results for Duriavenator, so I imagine it's a further few days from the time a new paper is discussed on the DML, to the time it's archived, to the time it shows up on Google. Dinoguy2 (talk) 23:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

French site Dinogenera also has near-instantaneous response time when it comes to new names; they're often first or second. J. Spencer (talk) 23:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Mesozoic plants

Hi, I'm thinking of drawing an Alxasaurus, or some other therizinosaur we don't have, eating leaves or similar, since I've done a lot of rather "sterile" drawings already, it could be cool with some drawings showing behaviour. But then comes the problem of what kind of plants existed at the exact time and place as specific dinosaurs... That kind of keeps me from doing a lot of that stuff, including having backgrounds, as I know pretty much nothing about prehistoric flora. Do you know where this sort of info can be obtained? Also, is a posture like this plausible? http://the_dinosauria.tripod.com/segnosaurus.jpg FunkMonk (talk) 10:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• Here's something unrelated, this image by Pavel Riha was removed from the Caudipteryx article because its wings were wrong[7], so I fooled around with it out of boredom, does the changed wing look right now?[8] And is the image wrong in other ways? FunkMonk (talk) 03:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the advice, I'll try to mess with it some day. FunkMonk (talk) 02:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Potential new category: azhdarchoids

Now that there are a couple dozen azhdarchoids, do you think it would be worthwhile to give them their own category within the pterosaur category structure? J. Spencer (talk) 22:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It's certainly the stability that makes it most attractive of any of the clades for a category. I hadn't thought about it leading to other categories, but I see your point. To tell the truth, I was more concerned about the fact that azhdarchoid, azhdarchid, Azhdarchoidea et al. are kind of paleo code: unfamiliar terms to those outside of the field, but very familiar to those within. I'm personally in the Unwin camp, but I also wouldn't want to play favorites. It's not a pressing need as long as the pace of new pterosaur genera is 6-8 a year, though. J. Spencer (talk) 02:57, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment on Dromiceiomimus

I left you a comment on the talk page of Dromiceiomimus, just wanted to make you aware. I don't know wikipedia etiquette, so feel free to delete my comment here if it clutters your talk page. -TzeraFNX--69.67.114.174 (talk) 05:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Favor?

Would you be able to draw me silhouettes of the major pterosaur groups seen from above? I'd like to make some scale images for articles on pterosaur genera but lack the talent to draw that kind of thing myself. I'm not sure how many I'd need. Maybe a rhamphorhynchoid, anurognathid, and pterodactyloid? If there are any other major pterosaur morphotypes I'd need one of them too. Sorry to have bothered you. If you don't want to do it I'm sure I could get someone else here to help. Thanks for your time. Abyssal (talk) 16:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Abelisaurs

He Dinoguy! Hows the graph coming along? Anyways, about carnotaurus, looking at various differant books and websites, they all seem to have differant size estimates, the lowest being 6.5 metres and the largest 9 metres, which would you say is the most accurate. How many carnotaurus's have been discovered also? Lastly, whilst were on abelisaurs, did you hear about the new one discovered? Scorpiovenator? Cool, Merry Christmas for when it arrives, also, good to hear about the new carnotaur. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC) Hey Dinoguy, good luck with the sizechart and did you hear about the newest maniraptorain theropod discovered in S.America? Austroraptor, five metres long and arms like a t.rex, sounds a little weird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Did Dinos Evolve to Birds?

Dinoguy2, could we discuss farther into Dinos-Birds?Dinoguy4 (talk) 23:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)Westivoja

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