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Stonewall Jackson Lake photo

Nice picture of the dam at Stonewall Jackson Lake.

By any chance do you have any nice photos of the state park? If so, would you mind posting one at Stonewall Resort State Park? Thanks. WVhybrid 00:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice pix. Thanks. I went up to Hawks Nest State Park and will be uploading one or more of the snaps I took today. WVhybrid 23:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Stonewall Resort

Brian: I don't think your redirect is correct. The name on the DNR web site and the park web site has dropped the name Jackson from the title. It seems to me we should respect the naming convention of the operating agency and use the name that they have used. (Of course, it is appropriate to mention Stonewall Jackson in the article.) Would you please revert the redirect? Thanks. WVhybrid 00:25, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to be precise on the name as well. The more I look at things the more confusing it gets. From what I can tell, Stonewall Resort is just a marketing name. The real name appears to be either Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park (used in state law at http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/20/WVC%2020%20%20-%20%205%20%20-%20%2016%20%20.htm) or Stonewall Jackson Resort State Park. I've sent an e-mail to the WVDNR asking them to clarify what the official name is and will update Wikipedia as appropriate. Brian Powell 03:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Droop Mountain

Nice photo. That shot is very distinctive, anyone that has been there should recognize it.

With only 6 photos missing now, what do you think of trying to push for featured list status? WVhybrid (talk) 03:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I think Featured List status would be nice. I have some photos of Moncove Lake and Pipestem that I'll upload when I have a chance. I don't have any really good photos of the main Bluestone State Park itself, but I have some photos of the middle of the lake taken from near the state park marina. Brian Powell (talk) 04:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Glad you are interested. Beyond the 6 photos, some more work on the article will be needed. Please take at Wikipedia:Featured list criteria. I may have a contact that can get a pix from Watters Smith fairly quickly, and I may be driving near Prickett's Fort in the next month or so, but Cacapon is far, far away. WVhybrid (talk) 11:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Featured list

Thanks for the Pipestem photo, Brian. I've started to beef up the lead paragraph, played around with improving the layout at the bottom of the article, added a couple more references, and fixed a very small layout issue with the Greenbrier River Trail thumbnail. If you have a Bluestone pix, even if it is not appropriate for the state park article, please consider using the thumbnail for the list. WVhybrid (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I just added a photo of Bluestone Lake near the state park marina at the WV 20 bridge. I might be able to grab some of the other parks, especially Prickett's Fort or Watters Smith, in the next couple weeks. I've also been meaning to visit North Bend, but I don't think I'll get to Cacapon for a while. Brian Powell (talk) 04:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Very nice photo, Brian. Next week is spring break for the kids. If I can, I'll try to get Prickett's Fort. I will keep working on Cacapon. Maybe something will break through there. Thanks. WVhybrid (talk) 05:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I uploaded a photo of Prickett's Fort that I grabbed this evening.Brian Powell (talk) 02:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.. I've been adding more references for the acreage data and adding more alt texts. We are almost there!WVhybrid (talk) 12:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

West Virginia route length

Hello, I noticed that you've been adding route lengths to various West Virginia route articles. I've been looking for a length source for West Virginia for a while, so I'm curious as to what your source is for the lengths. TIA. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 07:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I put together a listing a couple months ago for myself of each route's length by plotting the route using Google Maps and/or Microsoft MapPoint. WVDOH doesn't have its route logs available online; I asked them about this last spring and they said they didn't have a good way of making all of the data available in its current format.Brian Powell (talk) 03:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Geoboxes

Brian, I like the Geoboxes! It gives the state parks a good look and feel. I was wondering how you got the elevation figures for the parks. WVhybrid (talk) 02:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I found a plugin for Google Maps called the Altitude Resolving Tool (from topocoding.com). I'm running it against the coordinates we've got listed for the parks and grabbing the elevation from there.Brian Powell (talk) 02:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Pretty neat tool. Should we provide a reference for the elevation? WVhybrid (talk) 02:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess we could include a reference. The underlying data appears to be from the USGS GTOPO30 set. I'm not sure what we'd want to link to for the reference, though. As it is, the topocoding data is exposed through an API so there isn't really just a direct page we can point at for getting the elevation. Brian Powell (talk) 02:29, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park

You've done some nice digging here. I think we should go with Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park, as you suggest. I also think we should 1) document the decision, and 2) provide a firm reference for the change so there is no wiki-lawyering. If you want I'll help support the change, and help with the change itself it you want. If some issue comes up, I'll be glad to help. WVhybrid (talk) 02:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I think everything should be changed over now to Stonewall Jackson Lake State Park. I made notes in the talk pages discussing the changes and citing the legal name.Brian Powell (talk) 03:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

SP list notes

A couple notes on the WV SP list article.

Yesterday I found the table was corrupted at each row park entry that used multiple rows (because the park was located in two or counties). (You can see the corruption by looking at the history copies from some time ago.) The corruption occurred at the click template insert point. I played around for quite a while before I found out I could fix the corruption by inserting a line feed/return after the template bracket. Very strange. I assume there was some change made to the template or to the parsing engine.

Second, I wanted to mention that I think WV SP list is close, but not quite there, on meeting the requirements for becoming a feature list. There are still 3 missing photos (and thank you very much for the latest pix!) and not all of the acerage data items have references. That is my fault. Back in 06 when I was working on the list, I didn't record all of the references I found for acreage. And now I have not been able to find an on-line reference for all of the park acreages. I have sent off for a copy of the WV Blue Book, in hope that the data is in it. If the values aren't in the book, I'll keep looking.

Keep up the good work on the WV articles. From South Charleston. WVhybrid (talk) 02:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

The state highway maps (at least 2002 and newer editions) have a table on the back that lists all of the state parks, forests, and state park-managed WMAs. The acreages are listed here along with room counts and some other info.

I also wonder if we want to include some information on the state forests and WMAs that are managed as parks. West Virginia unfortunately tends to have a lot of crossover with its various public lands.Brian Powell (talk) 03:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't even think of the map. I guess the WV Blue Book will make a good doorstop when it arrives. B-) The newest map I can find tonight is 2000, and the the table you mentioned is on it. But I noticed that at least one value (Cathedral SP) is different than the value shown on the official web site. Even so, I will use the map for any missing references. Then we will only need the 3 photos! I'm tempted to make a road trip to get NB and Watters Smith, but probably not this week-end, because the weather looks poor for photos.

I saw an unreferenced note on the KSF page that the legislature passed a law about management. What do you think of keeping them separate for now? If we added all of the forests and WMAs, the article would be pretty long. I'm hoping we can take this list to featured status, and then we can go after improving the lists of forests and WMAs. (We could add a note to the forest and WMA lists to show which areas are managed as state parks)

WVhybrid (talk) 04:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

That sounds OK to keep the forests and WMAs off for now. I do have photos of some (Berwind, Panther, Seneca, Coopers Rock) I can contribute. I might put together some pages on those at some point.

The 2006-2007 WVDOH map does show 132 acres at Cathedral while the website has 133. Regarding the photos, I'm in Morgantown and have been toying with heading to North Bend or Watters Smith as well some afternoon or evening.Brian Powell (talk) 04:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Brian, have a safe road trip!

And thanks for the compromise on the forests and WMAs. What do you think of building the same type of table for separate lists?

If you have the latest map, please check the North Bend area. I had to add the values from two different references to get the total area. Also, if any of the six parks I referenced (Cass, Fairfax Stone, Lost River, Pipestem, Prickett's Fort, Tygart Lake) to the 2000 highway map have different area values in the 2006 map, please change those values.

I'm going to go ahead and add the graphic from Cacapon as a thumbnail, so when you get the last 2 photos, the list will be complete. We can always replace it later with a real photo.

If you would, after you have checked the 6 parks that reference the state map, would you please change the date on the reference from 2000 to 2006? The citation is in the Cass entry row.

(BTW, if you want to put in the nomination for featured page, I'd be okay with that. I think we have shared fairly with this article, but at my age, I'm don't need my account name on the featured list nomination page.)WVhybrid (talk) 18:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I think tables for the WMAs and forests would work out nicely. The acreage for the state parks you mentioned was the same in the 2006 map.

Here is another example of my detailed nature (though others have used a different word B-) ) Regarding the land area of Beech Fork Lake SP, the park web site shows the area to be 3144 acres, and the 2000 state highway map I have shows the area to be 3981 acres. I have used the web site as a reference for the list and you have used the highway map for the geobox. The other reference I have (WVU GAP Analysis) shows 3001 acres, so I don't trust that value. We probably should use the same number, but I don't have a lot of confidence in either number. What do you think? WVhybrid (talk) 16:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The 2006 state map says 3981 acres as well. I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address on the park website explaining what we were doing and asking if they can provide the correct size. If we hear from them, I'd say we go with that. If not, maybe we use the size from your Blue Book when it arrives?Brian Powell (talk) 17:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

West Virginia State Parks has a facilities grid at [1] that seems to be the basis for the listing in the state highway map. It shows North Bend at 2459 acres. I think we should use the figures from it.Brian Powell (talk) 17:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice work, Brian! I never found that page in my hunting around that site. WVhybrid (talk) 20:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Greenbrier River Trail

The station shown in the photo I put in the GRT article burned down last week-end. It was a total loss. B-( WVhybrid (talk) 01:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw about the Marlinton depot burning down. I was actually down in Pocahontas County last week and thought about stopping at the depot to take some photos since I was just a couple miles away. I unfortunately didn't due to time constraints and I kicked myself for it afterward.Brian Powell (talk) 04:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I have a few at American Byways under Recreation > Greenbrier River Trail. I posted a few articles at Skyscraper City if you want me to pull them up for expansion here. Damn shame it burned... seicer | talk | contribs 04:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Huttonsville SF WMA

I had actually changed it to include "state farm," but then checked the DNR site and they just had it as "Huttonsville WMA," so I changed it back. That being said, I would trust the sign over the webmaster in Charleston, though. y'am'can (wtf?) 22:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

North Bend

YEAH! WVhybrid (talk) 23:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

"Resort" in park names

Seems to me that the names have changed over the years. I am ambiguous today (just finished my taxes and am bummed out.. I owe tax and penalty to WV), but probably we should be consistent with what the state wants to call the them. What do you prefer?

On another note, would you please take a look at the geobox template in Mountain Lake Wilderness? (This is an article I started last week, and I'm not sure I handled the geobox correctly.) I wonder if an infobox would do a better job. You suggestions would be very welcome. Thanks. WVhybrid (talk) 20:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll just tack on "Resort" to everything to be consistent.

With Mountain Lake Wilderness, I think everything should be in good shape now. While they're a bit harder to work with at first, the Geoboxes end up being a lot more flexible than the infoboxes and, I think, a better choice overall because of the niceties they provide. Brian Powell (talk) 00:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

WV SP list

I just noticed the final pix. Congratulations! Do you think the list is ready to nominate? WVhybrid (talk) 20:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I think we could nominate now. I'm going to be heading over towards Frederick, MD towards the end of next month so I hope to be able to grab a real photo of Cacapon then. Brian Powell (talk) 21:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

A well deserved Barnstar

A little recognition for a job well done. Keep it up! WVhybrid (talk) 21:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Brian Powell (talk) 00:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Geobox error

My view of Mountain Lake Wilderness as an error below the county map of Virginia. It reads something like:

Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "["

in large red letters. I checked both Explorer and Firefox, and the error shows up in both browsers. WVhybrid (talk) 21:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm working on it. I discovered the Virginia map didn't have the coordinates defined yet.Brian Powell (talk) 21:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

geobox locator

The issue with the red letter error is that there is no "Template:Geobox locator Virginia". I'll dig in a little more and try to create one! WVhybrid (talk) 22:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that is the problem. I'm trying to find out what the correct coords are for the map top-left and bottom-right corners. Brian Powell (talk) 22:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

what are the coordinates based on? Is it latitude and longitude? WVhybrid (talk) 22:32, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, lat/long. You also have to specify a ratio of height to width. Brian Powell (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Got it. Used Google Earth to approx. the edges of the map. Good within a min of lat/long. Made the ratio from the pixel count. From the looks of the ball, I'd say it is off slightly, say 20 pixels. Looks like the dot is in Craig County instead of Giles. WVhybrid (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I noticed the calibration seems off - I plugged in Bristol and it shows it on the TN/NC border. I'm going to try tweaking things a bit. Brian Powell (talk) 23:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me know what you find. I'm curious as to which edge I missed. WVhybrid (talk) 23:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I think I found the problem. I was trying to calibrate the left edge by a bend in the Ohio River, and I counted over one county too far west. I put the new left edge longitude at -83.83, and the ball is Giles County where it belongs! WVhybrid (talk) 23:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I tweaked the values a bit further. I picked apart the map in Photoshop and figured out how many pixels were bordering the line on each side. I measured the location of the western, eastern, northern, and southern-most coords in Virginia using Google Maps and then figured out how much lat/long each pixel was. I back-computed the corners from there. I'm going to add my notes to the talk pages for the image. Brian Powell (talk) 23:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd say you got a few digits there, Brian. B-). Counting pixels goes beyond the call of duty.WVhybrid (talk) 00:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Slightly OT: Dayton, OH Roads Meet

Hey Brian - Dan from Ohio Hwy Ends here. I hope all has been going well for you. Things are busy, but going very well for me otherwise right now. Just wanted to give you a heads up that the next roads gathering to take place in the state of Ohio will be happening in Dayton on Saturday, 5/10. The event is actually being organized by Dayton-area roads enthusiast Richard Ruffner. He hasn't set up a place yet, but I would presume it would take place sometime around 12:00 Noon. I know for a fact the tour will include some of the re-building of I-75 taking place through downtown, as well as progress on the I-70/75 interchange reconstruction...a long, long time in the making. As details become available, I can pass those along to you. I figured I'd give you a heads up, if your schedule permits & you would be interested. Contact me either here or via the Ohio Hwy Ends site if you have any questions. Thanks, and have a great week! DanTheMan474 (talk) 04:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. I saw the post on MTR back in January and noted the date on my calendar but hadn't heard anything since. Brian Powell (talk) 04:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

No problem, Brian. I've e-mailed Richard, so we should hear something in the coming days. Either way, there will definitely be something roadworthy taking place in Dayton on that day. By the way, a quick aside, I'm working on a new Ohio project (in addition to recently doing some work on Ohio pages on here). The project highlights "photo tours", if you will, of state routes in the Buckeye State. It's in its early stages now, but will be developing as time goes on. It is located at http://www.canhighways.com/OH/. Check it out. Have a good one. DanTheMan474 (talk) 02:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No sooner than the last message, Richard has posted the details. They are on MTR, but for immediate reference, here is the meeting location, at 12:00 Noon on Saturday, 5/10 at Logan's Road House, 2819 Centre Dr., Fairborn, OH 45324. Hope to see you then! DanTheMan474 (talk) 18:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I've tentatively RSVPed to Richard. Brian Powell (talk) 23:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

See your userpage. Congrats. y'am'can (wtf?) 01:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Brian Powell (talk) 14:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Well deserved! Keep up the good work, Brian.WVhybrid (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Otter Creek

I was just looking up the conversion template... Ya beat me to it. B-) WVhybrid (talk) 21:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Brian, a couple of questions. Do you know why the reference you inserted in the geobox data item "highest_elevation_note" isn't showing up on the article page. Also, the elevation of 3901 ft that you probably got from the GNIS web site at this address does not agree with several topo maps I was able to access, such as here? The elevation on the topo maps was shown as 3912 ft. Admittedly, it isn't a big difference, but I think the lower number is wrong. WVhybrid (talk) 03:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The elevation notes should be working now. There was a spelling error in Template:Geobox that I fixed. For Otter Creek, I did take the elevation from GNIS. I see the 3912 on the USGS Bowden quad, so I changed the page to use that instead. Brian Powell (talk) 04:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

So is there a tutorial or book that I can read to understand how this Geobox programming works. Back in the dark ages, I took one Fortran course, and for decades I said I could "write Fortran in any language", and I did learn JCL, CP1, Pascal, Basic, and Visible Basic for Applications, then a smattering of HTML, and enough Wiki to make a pretty complicated table. But I look at Geoboxes and am completely in the dark. What the h*ll does a triple curly bracket mean?

It looks like you added a variable for topo maps, but I don't see where it was added to the Otter Creek. Can you show me how to add that variable to the Geobox?

I noticed that on the WV SP list, you used a small 100 x 100 pixel photo, rather than a larger photo that has to be reduced by the wiki server every time it is called up. Should I (or we) go back and change each of the "square" photos into 100 x 100 pixel photo to reduce the load on the server? Thanks.WVhybrid (talk) 15:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

There's some info on template programming at Help:Template. The Template:Geobox is pretty complicated - it took me a while to figure out what was going on. The triple curly braces surround a spot where it should substitute in a variable.

I need to reorganize things a bit so that the topos are in a better place in the Geobox listing as we enter the data, but if you just want to see it in use take a look at Spruce Knob or Mount Rogers. There's actually a lot of variables already there in the Geobox for different things. I'm looking at how I can adapt it to include dam information so that I get the nice Geobox formatting rather than the current Template:Infobox dam and Template:Infobox lake options.

I wouldn't worry too much about the image sizing. Pretty much every image on Wikipedia is being resized as it is displayed, so our images would be pretty miniscule in the overall scheme of things. I think Wikipedia is caching the images on the server as they're resized, too. Brian Powell (talk) 15:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

You are right about Geobox complexity. I think I will leave any programming to pros. Meanwhile I was able to figure out how to use the "_note" variables, thanks to your example. Looks like between us all the Wilderness Red Links are filled.

I'm thinking of adding some trailhead coordinates to the wilderness articles. Any preference for formatting? Will the table at the Greenbrier River Trail be appropriate? WVhybrid (talk) 18:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Laurel Fork North Wilderness

Brian, I think the coordinates for the lower elevation in this article were wrong. I think you inserted the lower elevation coordinates for the ..South.. article. The elevations for both articles are right. I switched the coordinates to the point where Laurel Fork crosses a gas pipeline, which looks the northern edge (lowest edge) of the area. If you think that I am wrong, please just revert the change. WVhybrid (talk) 19:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The change looks fine. I basically created the South article first and then copied it as a basis for the North article. I must have forgotten to update that coord. Anyhow, the point where Laurel Fork crossed the pipeline at the northern end of North should be the lowest spot. Brian Powell (talk) 21:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Elevation lookups

The tool seems to be fine. The sites I looked up seem to be better than 270 ft accuracy. The caution I have about using a template is that any errors, either on data entry or the underlying database, may go undetected. We don't know what people will use this facts we record in the future. Will someone use a GPS and an a Wikipedia article to try to find their way out of a wilderness area? If I had a choice in what you were doing, I'd suggest working to try to improve the articles some more. But if you want to write a template, go for it.

On another question, I'm looking at the Wildlife Management areas. They could benefit from an information box. Should I look at a Geobox? Would I use the "Protected Area" option?

One more thing. Looks like the 1800 ft number is a little high for the Otter Creek low point. I will go ahead and patch that tonight. WVhybrid (talk) 22:46, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, wait a minute. The EarthTools elevation return is wrong at the mouth of Otter Creek. Google Earth and the Topozone map both show the elevation at just below 1800 ft. (Google says 1795 at the trailhead parking lot, the topo map shows the 1800 ft iso line following the edge of the creek.) EarthTools could be suffering from roundoff error. It could be reporting a point up the side of a hill.WVhybrid (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Judging by the MNF map I have, I don't think the wilderness boundary goes all the way to the mouth of Otter Creek. On my map, it looks like it stops a little bit short - that's what I used when figuring out the coords and elevation earlier. I presume this is to provide drive-in access to the trailhead? Brian Powell (talk) 23:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I do see the inaccurate elevation data. I guess maybe it is a rounding issue like you said, but I'm not sure. I plugged the numbers into another site run by University of Colorado at Denver and it came back with 1811 feet. That's a lot closer to what I was expecting and pretty well jives with the coordinates (rounded to whole arc-seconds) on the topo map.

The EarthTools was nice because it is the only site I've found where you can just pass the coordinates in the URL to get the results. Topocoding.com and USGS itself have web services (Topocoding has a prebuilt API, making it a bit faster to setup) but I'll have to host a page somewhere to interact with the lookup. Brian Powell (talk) 23:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I did some more digging and testing. I plugged in 10 different points from land in West Virginia parks plus Mount Rogers in Virginia. I tested the two USGS products, SRTM and NED. I got different elevations for all points, some just ~5 feet different to some almost 100 feet different.

The FAQ page at ned.usgs.gov says that their data is within +/- 7 to 15 meters. When you think about it, they're basically saying they data is within 50 feet, give or take. That's a pretty big range. I think this is probably an issue we're going to see with all of the digital mapping products, especially in the mountains - the resolution, while pretty fine grained, still leaves a lot of room to shift both horizontally and vertically.

My thought is that for defined high points and low points, we try to go off of USGS topo maps when possible. (Even these aren't necessarily accurate since the vertical datums have changed over time.) For just general elevation points within an area, we use the EarthTools data. Does this sound OK? Brian Powell (talk) 23:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds fine. Good way to divide the work. WVhybrid (talk) 00:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Brian, I like the way you investigate the situation and found a good solution. WVhybrid (talk) 22:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

What about the other elevations I set using topozone.com? Should we go back and change those to your newly discovered USGS tool?

Brian, please take a look at Allegheny Wildlife Management Area. I didn't add any elevations to the geobox I used there. Do you think elevations are needed? (Keep in mind there is an almost infinite number of WMAs!)WVhybrid (talk) 00:58, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's keep the existing elevations we have. They should be pretty close. If we update an article maybe we check the elevations, but I don't see it being worthwhile to check all of the existing ones.

The Allegheny WMA article looks pretty good. There are some things that I'll cleanup when I get a chance. With the other WMAs, I'd like to et the elevations listed just to be consistent. Also, I think the data is useful since the elevation (especially in the mountain counties) will make a big difference on weather conditions, foliage, etc. Someplace at 1000ft is going to be a lot different this time of year than somewhere at 2500ft or 4000ft. Brian Powell (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A question

[2] WVhybrid (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I will work on it eventually.

Now for a challenge. Have you noticed that when you hover your cursor over a photo in the Geobox that the text that comes up is not the Image_caption text, but is the image file name. That is not how other boxes work. For instance, the Taxobox hover text is the caption. The coding for the two boxes is different, but similar. The Taxobox uses a "#if" function, while the Geobox doesn't, but both have a image_caption variable in the list of variables in the image routine. I simply don't understand the programming language.WVhybrid (talk) 02:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks like the Template:Geobox image is specifying the caption parameter in the wrong order. The page is protected so I can't edit it myself, but I did leave a request identifying the problem and asking that it be fixed. Brian Powell (talk) 15:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. I knew you could figure it out! I'd ask you more questions, but then I might learn too much. B-) WVhybrid (talk) 01:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing my flubs.WVhybrid (talk) 02:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

BwSP

Brian: Someone (Mr. A~) posted a photo of an old postcard (of the falls) on the Blackwater SP article. The image file claims that the copyright has expired. While it is true that the copyright of the postcard has expired, the copyright of the photo of the postcard will be in force for another 90+ years. Anyway, I deleted the photo. I'm thinking of proposing deletion of the image from Wikipedia Commons as well. Any words of wisdom would be appropriate. Is this too much wikilawyering?

Also, another question. There is a section (History) in this article (unreferenced, of course) describing the events concerning land outside of the park. I'm not sure how accurate and how neutral the POV of the section is.

WVhybrid (talk) 22:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree about removing the postcard. With the history section, the timeline seems about right but some citations would definitely be nice. I do seem to also recall Manchin proposing a further purchase of Blackwater Canyon (expansion of BFSP?) this year. Brian Powell (talk) 03:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Protected areas infobox

Take a look at it now - I've pared it down even more, as much as I can without sacrificing the cemeteries. I don't think it's that terrible, to be honest - right now it's about the same size as the Pennsylvania infobox, which was its model. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 17:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, joy. Apparently there are more natural area preserves, and a couple of state forests that didn't make the cut before. Here's a thought - perhaps split it into two infoboxes, one federal and one state? --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 13:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That might be for the best. Although again, there's the thought that no other state is doing it.

Although how many of them have wildlife refuges listed, for instance? Pennsylvania doesn't, I know, and they have a few. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 17:32, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Oregon has its NRHP listings there, too. I think they're worth keeping, personally. Although I don't like the way in which they've been split up for Virginia; I find it awkward and a bit troublesome, and no other state is split up in such fashion. I know nobody else has the cemeteries, but I figure they're worth adding...although I [i]think[/i] Virginia has more than many other states.

Thanks for your help in this, by the way - any other state-protected entities I should add? I decided to dispense with listings for the two state wildflower nurseries :) Although I might add stub articles for those at another date... --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 18:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Why thank you - I've tried :)

I'm going to stay away from messing with the NRHP lists for right now; the WikiProject is hugely active, and I want to check into seeing who decided on the division before suggesting something else. Besides which, last time I mucked about with one of the lists it wasn't looked upon too kindly.

Personally, I'd like to keep the cemeteries as part of the list. Still, I suppose that if anything should go, it should be those; they fall under a different sort of "protection" than the other entries.

Think there's enough material to justify a "Virginia protected areas stub"? --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 18:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thing is, unless I missed something in the translation, there aren't any county-specific stub tags for Virginia. So there isn't that option, unless somebody wants to make it, and I don't see it being viable, honestly. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 19:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I suspect I'll put it up for suggestion this evening, then. Lord knows I've done enough NAPs alone to get it above the requisite number. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 21:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Vandalism

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at User:wv26228. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Wv26228 (talk) 14:40, 6 December 2015 (UTC) [Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 14:35, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Tagging a suspected sockpuppet as a suspected sockpuppet is hardly vandalism. Bitmapped (talk) 14:53, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

in this case it is. The move was imediately reverted just after it happened. Wv26228 (talk) 15:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

.. and FYI the aricle in question has been improved thanks to me. Wv26228 (talk)

Wv26228. Adding a tag to your user page is not vandalism. Please read Wikipedia:Vandalism. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 22:11, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

User:Wv26228

Don't edit war to keep the tag on the user page. If they turn out to be a sockpuppet then the tag can be restored. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 22:10, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I reverted it once to restore. After that, I have left it alone. Bitmapped (talk) 22:11, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

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Hey

This is it, I believe. http://www.eastliverpoolhistoricalsociety.org/Railroad4.htm

--PootisHeavy (talk) 02:01, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't see any mention of a railroad bridge on that page, just the Newell Bridge (extant car toll bridge) and the Chester Bridge (demolished car bridge). Bitmapped (talk) 02:43, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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You're invited! Great Buckeye Wiknic 2016

Hello there! You are invited to attend the Great Buckeye Wiknic in Columbus, Ohio on Sunday, July 10th from 1:00 to 5:00 PM! Join us for a day in the park for food and socializing with others from the Wikimedia movement. We'll be meeting up at Fred Beekman Park, a park on Ohio State University's campus.

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Power plants in West Virginia

Hi Brian,

I'm John from German Wikipedia and have written some articles about huge US coal plants:

• Mount Storm
• John E. Amos
• Pleasants

If you could take photos of the other WV plants, I would be able to write more articles ;)--Kopiersperre (talk) 13:46, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

File:USFS Barton Knob Fire Tower Removal E-mail.pdf listed for discussion

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Holly River State Park

An entire section of article Holly River State has been deleted, but I'm not to blame. Someone questioned the sources you had put in as unreliable for some odd reason. I don't see anything wrong with them. Just thought I let you know that your edit was affected by this as well nas several others. 50.110.91.140 (talk) 16:13, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

An entire section of article Holly River State has been deleted, but I'm not to blame. Someone questioned the sources you had put in as unreliable for some odd reason. I don't see anything wrong with them. Just thought I let you know that your edit was affected by this as well as several others.50.110.91.140 (talk) 16:20, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Any concerns are best discussed at the talk page for the article itself. Bitmapped (talk) 04:31, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

New Wikiproject!

Hail and well met! I am dropping you a quick note because I have created a new Wikiproject - WikiProject Green Party to help expand and improve on the vast number of Green Party articles on Wikipedia! I hope you will consider joining so we can collaborate together instead of disagreeing. Have a great day! Me-123567-Me (talk) 00:50, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Watters Smith photo

Hello, Brian. RE: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Watters_Smith_Memorial_State_Park.jpg

I have been searching on the internet for a photo of Watters Smith State Park to use in a painting I want to give to my nephew. I have been a Monongalia County artist for almost 60 years. Your photo is quite beautiful. If I do this, I would like to perhaps give the grass a more autumnal appearance and make the sky more colorful. I will note the license and appropriate attribution to you on the back of the painting, if this is agreeable to you. If I post a photo of this painting for my friends to see online, I will also abide by your terms. Thank you very much. Linda Karus Linda Karus (talk) 01:18, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

• That is fine. I'm glad you enjoy the photo. Bitmapped (talk) 01:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

all included

Please notice the 'all included' notice on the Category:Cities in West Virginia. It is easy to miss, I am sure. Thanks Hmains (talk) 17:28, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

That's a non-standard category setup, but I do see the note now that you have pointed it out. I'll leave things alone. Bitmapped (talk) 17:31, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Using Monongahela National Forest photo

FYI that under your Creative Commons guidelines, we've used your Monongahela National Forest photo on this story.

Thanks! --20:00, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Abraun3 (talk)Ashley--Abraun3 (talk) 20:00, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

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Big Muskie

Thanks Brian for letting me use a copy of subject. 2602:30A:2E31:4160:2805:C154:5DB3:CB3F (talk) 13:25, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Big Muskie

Thanks Brian for letting me use a copy of subject. 2602:30A:2E31:4160:2805:C154:5DB3:CB3F (talk) 13:25, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

ADHS

Hello, I'm ActivBowser. I've noticed that you said that I had to cite sources to prove that Corridor L is 68.4 miles and that Corridor C is 71.7 miles, but here are they: Corridor L: 82.9968419!2d38.879518!3e0https://www.google.com/maps/dir/37.8401188,-81.2118005/38.6158397,-80.7545835/@38.6150171,-80.7550879,17.88z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0 Corridor C: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.8661562,-83.004956/Lucasville,+OH+45648/@39.8688798,-83.0036158,16.58z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x8846f07e40f560d9:0xf4668aefb931ebbf!2m2!1d-82.9968419!2d38.879518!3e0 Have questions? Contact me at User talk:ActivBowser9177 —Preceding undated comment added 01:50, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

There's nothing showing those specific points you're measuring from are the actual endpoints of the corridors. The routes you selected end randomly, short of interchanges and ramps. WV signs Corridor L mile markers onto the WV Turnpike southbound ramp, for example. The maps you're linking are not acceptable citations relative to the other sources. Bitmapped (talk) 01:56, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I see. ActivBowser9177 (talk) 00:42, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Hear this: https://www.arc.gov/images/programs/transp/ADHSFY2015StatusReport.pdf Go to the Ohio section, and you'll find that the length is 71.7 miles for Corridor C. The ref in ADHS Page only shows miles for ADHS Funding (13.1), but it never really expressed the length, nor was there a note to show that the length was ADHS Funding. And... Corridor L's length is rather 69.9, not 68.4 nor 60.5. Hope you understand me. ActivBowser9177 (talk) 16:06, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Congratulations, you find an appropriate reference to cite for corridor length. I'd suggest using those figures over what is there now. Bitmapped (talk)

WV Centennial

Appreciate the note. The WV Capitol complex has concerts very often. They had a huge centennial bash in 63. It is cool to see the steps in use, I agreeCoal town guy (talk) 02:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Greenbrier River Trail

Thanks for your work on this file and your expertise. I know its probably felt at moments like we were both at odds, but the article is much better for our work, trying out different wordings, trying to get the right information using the best tone and emphasis. Again, thanks.842U (talk) 12:03, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

I appreciate your help, too. The article is much improved from what it was before. Bitmapped (talk) 01:18, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

WV State Capitol questions

Hi Bitmapped

IU was planning on creating a table showing the years that the WV Capitol occupied its many places and then making a history section with all of the details surrounding the moves. I took a look around at other US State Caiptol articles and noted that Pennsylvania is a featured article...so I hope the format is ok? What do you think?Coal town guy (talk) 01:51, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if a table is the best way to display the information, but having more information on the previous capitols would definitely be a nice addition. Bitmapped (talk) 15:09, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Most excellent, I was able to speak with some folks at the WV culture and history center. I am currently looking into state archive photo permissions as each capitol does have a historic photoCoal town guy (talk) 16:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

That sounds great! Bitmapped (talk) 17:55, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

West Virginia State Capitol updates

Hi Bitmapped

JUST A FYI

I managed to get alot more refs and add some concise dates as well as added history of how Clarksburg and Martinsburg were also choices for the Capital location. Let me know what you thinkCoal town guy (talk) 13:52, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Your changes look good. Thanks for working on them. Bitmapped (talk) 17:13, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

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Zero Mile marker at WV State Capitol, is not mile zero

Hey There. I did some digging about the zero milestone marker in Charleston WV. THEN I read the sign on the marker. The milestone in its current location is not mile zero....looky at this link https://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=233975

Should this be removed from the article?Coal town guy (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't see a problem keeping it in since it is at the site. I'm not sure WVDOH uses it for anything other than maybe figuring distance to Charleston, if that. It's definitely not used for all highway measurements in the state as the article said before. WVDOH measures highways based on their western or southern endpoint in the county (US and WV routes) or state (Interstates), not from Charleston. I've tweaked the text a bit but it would be great if we can nail down if it has any real purpose. Bitmapped (talk) 13:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

In that case it marks when Interstate 79 ends and Interstate 77 Begins. 184.15.173.170 (talk) 21:51, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

The exits and mile markers on I-79 are from where it ends at I-77. That is separate from the distance to Charleston that shows up on distance signs. I'm not exactly what point they measure the distance to Charleston from. It may be the Mile 0 stone or something else. Bitmapped (talk) 21:53, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I did double check, once it was moved off the grounds, and once the highways changed, this thing is an artifact, a cool one, but an artifact which is not accurateCoal town guy (talk) 13:49, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for checking on that. That's kind of what I figured. Bitmapped (talk) 18:02, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the boyscouts had their input at its creation, a community for certain. I am in the middle of real life of course, but plan to rework the current Capitol intro, found some good sourcing on Architectural originsCoal town guy (talk) 13:29, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

As fate would have it, I received a copy of Cass Gilberts WV State Capitol as a gift this holiday. On the last page of the text is a one sentence blurb about the mile zero marker........literally the only book i did not have in my collection...LOLCoal town guy (talk) 20:23, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Great! Is there anything in the book that's worth adding to the article? Bitmapped (talk) 22:32, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

OH HELL YES! It describes in detail the designs and use of symbolism on the dome as well as the struggle to get it built with the desired specs. Oddly, the book claims that this structuire is possibly the most symbol rich of all of Gilberts designs. A fascinating readCoal town guy (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

WV Capitol architecture

Hey Bitmapped- I will very soon be creating a section on WV Capitol architecture and was thinking of placing it under the Description of the capitol plaza section. To that point I have added some pics to the gallery emphasizing Corinthian columns, faeces, garlands and of course eagles....ANY thoughts would be appreciated especially on where to place the new sectionCoal town guy (talk) 18:50, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Charleston WV intro sentence...YIKES

Hey there, I have tried rewording the intro sentence for Charleston, West Virginia. Let me know if its OK. It has to be better than what it was...Coal town guy (talk) 16:53, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

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Charleston State Capitol Building questions

Hi Bitmapped- Well I finally got the pics I wanted of the dome and now I have a question or 2 for you. Please. After reading Cass Gilberts WV State Capitol, it was very clear that this building is LOADED with symbols. I have captured those specified by Gilbert ion his book. As Gilbert was its Architect, I wanted to know HOW I could introduce usage of symbols in the current article? I have a breakdown of the dome schematic, and can create an image with my pohotos. ANY advice or input would be GREATLY appreciated.Coal town guy (talk) 13:24, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Cappy Burnside

Hi. You removed the category "Transportation in WV" from the page Lester W. “Cappy” Burnside, Jr.. The page is under construction. His company, Consolidated Supply Company, provided most of the concrete that was poured for the WV State Road Commission to complete the interstate system throughout West Virginia. He had a lab to test each batch of concrete so the State of West Virginia preferred the quality of his product (back in the day when quality mattered over price). He was an expert on bridges, playing a major role in the construction of the New River Gorge Bridge--at that time an engineering feat (and supplying the concrete) and hundreds of lesser bridges. He spoke to groups around the country about bridges. After selling his company, he was a very busy bridge consultant (in West Virginia) way into his 70's. He was a member of the American Society of Highway Engineers (Man of the Year, 2005, I believe--I'm not checking my sources because I'm not working on this today). He played a major roll in the betterment of transportation in West Virginia. I believe he most certainly belongs in that category for those and other reasons. I'd like to put the category back. He earned it. He is known for this and I don't understand why you removed it. I was very careful when adding categories, not adding any that were irrelevant or superfluous. I look forward to your prompt reply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs) 15:45, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

You shouldn't be editing an article about your father at all. It's a conflict of interest. You are not an objective third party.

Note: Please see my comment below regarding conflict of interest. I understand, but please see explanation in below comment * Mountaineer 17:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

The Transportation in West Virginia category is about transportation infrastructure and agencies. I do not believe an article about a contractor such as your father is a good fit for this category.

Cappy was never a contractor. He was president of a multi-million company (I can substantiate this--it is not my opinion) and his company supplied contractors, the State of West Virginia, supplied specialty brick for designer Gordon Bunshaft for the Hirshhorn Museum (of Modern Art), part of the Smithsonian in DC--one of Cappy's earliest successes which I probably won't include because it doesn't involve WV although I do have an article to cite if I do want to include it. He did contribute greatly to the infrastructure of this state and the quality (at the time) of the roads and bridges. I just made a call to someone who is in a position to make that judgment and who I will be interviewing for the article. I'll leave out the category for now, but add it when it is apparent that it belongs.Mountaineer 17:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

*Regarding the conflict of interest, I have been asked by many interested parties in the city to write this because I have time (I have MS and do freelance work). Fortunately, I was out of the country when almost all of this occurred, so I'm depending on outside sources. It isn't easy to do this from an objective third-party, but probably easier since I was out of the country most of my adult life. I was also a university English and writing professor--including writing upper-level research papers (when I was overseas) and prior to that had a legal background (allowing me to argue anything from all sides). I am editing myself to ensure the article is factual and that I interject no opinion. I would appreciate someone going behind me once it's finished and pointing out/correcting anything that does seem otherwise. I have input from many people who are not related but who were involved with the FBI project or with him generally. I'm not adding anything without the opinion of others for that very reason--I need to be objective. I read the conflict of interest section. It doesn't preclude me from doing this; it merely discourages it. It's a challenge, but I'm trying to do it. The 27th of September is the fourth anniversary of the dedication of the bridge that memorializes him. I'm under pressure to whip this into shape by then. I really do wish someone else would do it, but having just returned from India and the Middle East after being away for many years (1999, with a few visits back here), and having the time on my hands, people seem to believe I'm the best person for the task. (Much is being added at the request of my mother--it is entirely factual but I'll be happy to remove it--as an author she should probably have her own page and not advertise her work on this page). Please remove the "neutral point of view policy" on the page. I created the page. I will finish the page. People may edit it; that goes without saying. I have not interjected my opinion. It is heavily-cited fact. It is insulting to see that there. I've made an effort to be objective. Please. Mountaineer 17:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

With that said, I hope you understand more clearly. You seem familiar with West Virginia issues. The High-Tech Corridor from Bridgeport to Morgantown would not exist without the FBI (cited article from WV Dept of Commerce) and had Cappy not done what he did (quote from Don Flynn, now-retired FBI Special Agent in Charge/Section Chief quoted in cited article, the FBI Fingerprint would not have happened at all. This is the FBI representative who worked with Cappy during the negotiations through the construction. "Cappy made it happen" (from cited quote from Don Flynn in newspaper article). Thousands of jobs, developments, government contractors moved in afterward and new developments continue to be built even today. (I read about this and heard about it in the 1980's when living in the Washington area--it was on public radio and in the Washington Post--some of those articles will be cited or listed for further reading). While I loved my father, I am trying to put him at a distance for the purpose of this article. Mountaineer 17:37, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I have a somewhat related question about a photo that is in the public domain: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Cappy_Burnside_with_Senator_Robert_C._Byrd_in_the_senator%27s_office.jpg#Summary

It was taken in Sen. Byrd's office by a staff photographer. All photos taken in Senate office buildings are taken by government photographers, therefore they are in the public domain (See U.S.C Title 17 § 105. I phoned Sen. Manchin's Communications Director Jonathan Kolt Office 202 228 5575 (office) 202 256 8015 (mobile) who verified that it was taken in Sen. Byrd's office, that it was taken by a staff (government photographer) and that it is in the public domain. Knowing copyright law, I had thought so, but I wanted to hear it from them (Manchin replaced Byrd upon his passing). Jonathan said he knew of no documentation, since it is, by law, in the public domain. I uploaded it into Wikimedia Commons and it was flagged. I've tried to e-mail them (immediately after I saw the message on the Wikimedia Commons photo page (link above)--I did not receive a message from Wikimedia about this photo), asking what was necessary. I've received no answer. This is a necessary photo, for Cappy and Sen. Byrd worked closely with Don Flynn to make this happen. Byrd got it to WV (but it's complicated--it almost didn't happen at all--Cappy personally purchased the land where the FBI Fingerprint center is now located and sold it to the government, saving the deal (I can cite a quote). This is an important photo to include later in the article. Can you tell me what I need to do to make this photo conform to Wikimedia Commons' rules? I chose "Government Photo" when uploading. No answer from my e-mail. I'm stumped and would prefer to not have it removed if possible. Thanks in advance for your patience with me. Mountaineer 17:02, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

You removed "Deaths in West Virginia" category. That's fine. Someone else told me to put that in. I thought it was unnecessary. I agree with many of your edits. I did make some changes so it would be factual. For example, the approval of the bridge name occurred at least a year before the dedication (unfortunately, because Cappy did not live to see it). There were other legacies, so I just created "Legacies" with subheadings. I will probably use them all. Please remember this is quickly under construction. Your understanding would be appreciated. I believe I am being objective. Of course, it's easy for me to believe that. Others who appreciate what he did (and didn't know him) want more, but I'm trying to minimize it. He did quite a lot. Read the article published in the paper (you might be able to find it in the WVU Library--I'm trying to get digital access but for now I have a clipping). It's cited. I'm not exaggerating. Read the quote by retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Don Flynn in the article about the bridge dedication (there is a link). The Clarksburg paper recently purged most of their archives which is frustrating, but that was available. There are many quotes. I'm writing what others say. I am being objective. If you edit, please don't misspell things or change the date from 2014 to 2004. I am having to check your edits for accuracy. I should enjoy this undertaking, and any other admins who've come along have been pleasant. You, who are 45 miles from me, seem to be holding a grudge. Are you out to prove that I can't be objective and determined to over-edit the article I created and am continuing to write (and that is clearly marked "under construction"? Just wondering. It's irritating but shouldn't be. I should learn from your edits, not be frustrated by them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs) 01:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

It's been interesting to learn about your father. I've seen the sign on the WV 279 bridge but didn't know anything behind the name previously. My major concern is in ensuring a neutral point of view for the article. Cappy was your dad. It's hard to write objectively about family members. That's why Wikipedia strongly discourages it. To be frank, Wikipedia has a pretty high bar for notability and I'm not sure that your father actually clears that bar. Bitmapped (talk) 02:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. The Conflict of Interest page states that it's strongly discouraged, but that there are exceptions. I am trying to be objective. Regarding your comment that he might not meet notability standards, I will make a completely subjective statement--I'm writing it objectively offline with citations, but for the sake of time and space, I'm just going to say this. I've posted citations with articles quoting notable people saying that the FBI wouldn't have happened at all without Cappy. I called him Cappy, BTW. Senator Byrd did manage to procure it for West Virginia, and three sites were considered. Cappy, as a board member of the Harrison County Chamber of Commerce, started a group to put together ideas to bring it to Clarksburg. He really hit it off with FBI Special Agent in Charge Don Flynn and Cappy and Don worked together almost daily. At several points, the FBI almost didn't make it to West Virginia. Jesse Jackson complained that jobs would be taken from Washingtonians. Long story short, the FBI is where it is because of Cappy Burnside. Jobs were needed desperately, and training programs were added to curricula in local colleges and universities. NASA arrived. Government contractors arrived and the High-tech corridor is in place. Drones are controlled from here. Incredible work is being done here--and it stretches from the FBI in Harrison County to Mon County. Charlespointe and White Oaks were built and continue to expand. United Hospital Center moved to the area. Had the FBI not been located there, Clarksburg/Bridgeport would have been the same place it was when I left for greener pastures--depressing with no jobs and no hope. He really breathed life into the area. I'm saying what others said. I knew him as my father. As I told you, I was not in the area and overseas most of the time all of this happened. I learned about it in the news (Cappy was too humble to tell me). He was working on the community starting with the board of the Planning and Zoning Commission in the 1960's. That's a long list. Is he not notable? He is a hero to many (to me, he's my father and that's enough--I don't brag). I'm an under-the-radar sort of person. I don't want people to know his relative is doing this and suspect me. I'm approaching this the way I would some of the content-writing assignments I've had for textbook content--with a third-party mentality. The same question has crossed my mind, but when one person spends several years and his own money (purchasing the land for the FBI then selling it back to the government) and working through all of the demands of the FBI and the state and making everybody happy (and he's the one who did it--day to day--for several years (I read this in the house bill--how much time he took--I wasn't here to know), and when the results of that bring thousands of jobs and subsequently other government agencies, government contractors, huge developments, and a high-tech corridor, isn't that person notable? I'm thinking about this if it were any other person in any other area. I think it is. Please read (fully) the link to the bridge dedication article and the link to the bill naming the bridge. I have more citations, but I'll post them when I post the appropriate sections. I hope to finish this during the coming week. If you think, after what I just said, that this article will just be taken down, please tell me--honestly. I don't want to put any more time and effort into something that will be taken down for one reason or another. I'm not doing this to get my father on Wikipedia. I'm doing this because many people think it should be done and I'm the lucky person who has time to do it. Thanks and good night. Mountaineer 05:08, 24 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs)

Thank you for solving the problem with the Cappy/Byrd photo in Wikimedia Commons. I am grateful. :) Mountaineer 19:42, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I am starting to receive more varied sources to cite (finally--it was a matter of accessing archives). I think the full story will be easier to tell from cited sources and this will become easier. I'm waiting for some things. Moving as quickly as possible. I hope what I mentioned in my last (sorry so long) comment and what is said about him in the article sums up his importance. He did a lot of thing for the community prior to that and I'll mention that (the Chamber of Commerce--he was president twice--is helping to pull together a lot of information. There is a lot of information, and I must whittle it down to what is relevant (but be fair because he is responsible for a lot of growth here--and I have to substantiate that). Anyway, thanks for your help. I really think I can prove this a worthy, objective article once I finish (I brutally edit myself), and I think I can prove that he was notable enough--but that's not my call. He changed a lot of lives, got a lot of people who were on unemployment trained and in good government jobs. I'm being repetitive, but that's huge. Thousands of jobs, and considering the population of this area, that's a high percentage of people back to work (upper management was brought in from DC, otherwise they were local). This is from what I've read. I wish I were here when all this happened. Again, I think that helps my objectivity. Your opinion is welcome, of course (and that's what you do on Wikipedia anyway . . . Mountaineer 19:42, 24 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs)

I'll quickly add that the FBI and his work with Public Radio in Charleston (he solved a problem between WVPR and the state legislature--waiting for the article and a comment from Marilyn DeVita at WVPB (she worked closely with him) were not his only accomplishments. If you look at the article that was written after his death (the paper wrote an obituary), each organization he belonged to he brought something special. He was president of the Miss West Virginia pageant (strangely enough, the year Patsy Paugh won the title (my mother acted as her coach and chaperone). Patsy would later marry John Ramsey and give birth to Jon Benet Ramsey--you probably know what that's about. Odd how he had to be president THAT year. That story probably shouldn't go in (I'll mention that he was president of the pageant, but not the reference to Jon Benet Ramsey because that's sensational and a circumstantial connection). He designed not only the interchange where his bridge is, but many others, as well as local bridges. He was a part of a small group that started the West Virginia Life Sciences Center (I took a photo of the plaque but it's probably useless here). He had something to do with the expansion of the airport and bringing in major companies like Lockheed to repair planes--he developed that idea with a couple of other people. I remember visiting and he showed me this huge crater-sized hole (bigger than a crater--I've seen a crater). He said that there would soon be a runway extending into that with major aerospace companies. This also involved Senator Byrd (and is named after him). Planes are brought in from all over for repair. They can land any plane on that runway and taxi to the various companies. Oddly enough, I had a university student in Oman who started his training there--at the adjacent Robert C. Byrd Aerospace Education Center (he had lived in Nebraska before so he could adjust to life here). You might appreciate this: Issa (his name) would play "Take Me Home, Country Roads" every morning before class. He was obcessed with West Virginia. Interesting that he would come here for further study. That surprised me. I could bore you more but what I'm saying is that he wasn't a one-trick pony. He dedicated his life to public service and road safety (by testing each batch of concrete for all jobs, which landed him the State Road Commission. He did much more. Board of Salvation Army. Board of Boy Scouts. On and on. He really did care. He lived by the motto of Greenbrier Military School, sometimes to a fault: Duty, Truth, Honor. I didn't say that. Someone told me that. I only heard that recently but it described him perfectly. I'm not writing anything in the first person (I assure you) in the article. I'm just telling you more of what he was about since I'm doing the rest of the article offline (I don't have all my citations and anything I can't cite, I'll leave out). But he wasn't only known for the FBI. That was just his pièce de résistance. I hope you find something in here that makes it worthy for Wikipedia. I do need to know if it isn't and I'll just stop. Thanks!

Mountaineer 20:26, 24 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs)

Hi Bitmapped --I think I'm pulling it together (see talk page for Cappy page). Have a problem--I think. I uploaded a portrait of Cappy. It was taken by a commercial photographer in Clarksburg. The owner of the studio sent the appropriate e-mail (I sent the template to her and filled in as many blanks as I could to save her time--she's cautious and would not send anything inappropriate). She had earlier sent me a license allowing me to use it which I sent to the proper e-mail address at Wikimedia Commons twice (once after she sent the e-mail--with the URL of the photo in the subject line). It´s the portrait on the page and I'd hate to lose that. Alternatively, I could use the photo with Sen. Byrd (thank you for fixing that), but using that as his portrait would certainly seem pretentious and not be appropriate. I have sent e-mails and left messages on the photo discussion page with no response. The photographer no longer works for the studio, but the new owner has the files--she bought the copyrights to photos. She is also a full-time nurse at United Hospital Center. That isn't the problem of anyone here, but I hate to call her a fourth time for an e-mail or anything to Wikimedia. Is there any way to find and pull this together? It will be deleted on the 29th of September if the powers-that-be at Wikimedia Commons don't pull her e-mail and license together. Here's the URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lester_W._%22Cappy%22_Burnside,_Jr.jpg. Thanks for your guidance. Mountaineer 03:07, 28 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs)

How did the photographer or owner agree to license the photo? Only for use on Wikipedia, Creative Commons, or was it released into the public domain? That is going to impact where the image needs to be uploaded and perhaps the rest of the process.

According to Commons:OTRS, there is 4+ month backlog on handling OTRS tickets right now. It's a manual volunteer-done process. They will restore deleted images once the tickets are processed, but in the meantime, you might want to use the Byrd image or one you took yourself. Bitmapped (talk) 03:21, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and suggestion. I do know that OTRS works on a volunteer basis so I can imagine it can be slow. I know the proper documentation has been submitted so I panicked a bit. It's a great photo of him IMHO. I had thought that the Byrd photo could be a substitute, but I didn't want to seem pretentious or "name-dropping" by having the first photo on his page with Sen. Byrd. I thought about inserting that later, around the FBI section (maybe). I may insert the Byrd photo for now if they take this one down (and my guess is that they will) and go through my tons of photos for something that would be suitable. I've taken plenty of photos of him. I guess it doesn't have to be a portrait. I have several of him working (one on his mobile phone while we were lunching at the Blennerhasset in Parkersburg while I was visiting from Oman in 2008--it is a good photo of him and very typical). I had gone along with him on a bridge consulting job that day. That one just popped into my mind. Maybe that would be a good one, and I took the photo. I'm thinking out loud, like usual. By the way, I apologize for my earlier ramblings, but I was trying to convince you I could be objective and that Cappy is worthy of a Wikipedia entry (and I think I'm being objective in what I post--any opinion is in the form of quotations from interviews or newspaper articles). Others may edit or add what they have--and I appreciate edits that have been made so far--I have learned from them as far as form and style is concerned. Here, on your talk page, I did interject my opinion. You have been helping me all along regarding Wikipedia rules. I've been defensive. Sorry about that. I just want to let you know how much I appreciate your help. Have a good weekend. Mountaineer 16:21, 29 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appl atcha (talk • contribs)