Template talk:Sandusky Radio

Request move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, having been withdrawn by the nominator. (non-admin closure) —innotata 20:59, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

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I'd like to request that this template be known as "Vacationland Radio".

Nielsen doesn't have a name for this region (they don't even list it because it's so small), and I've shown about 10 different sources on my talk page (including articles from the Plain Dealer and Toledo Blade referring to the area as such).

Nieslen has shown it will use collective names for a group of smaller cities to list markets (i.e. Quad Cities Iowa and Tri-Cities Washington - again, see my talk page), and since I've shown that the Sandusky/Port Clinton/Islands region is known collectively as "Vacationland", I believe that using the term to describe the market would be acceptable.

Vjmlhds (talk) 23:00, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

@Vjmlhds: If you intend to request a move, then you should probably follow the appropriate steps as detailed at WP:REQMOVE. Otherwise, you might as well direct users to User_talk:Vjmlhds#"Vacationland"? where there is already an active discussion taking place. Levdr1lp / talk 00:34, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Withdrawing request...more trouble than what it's worth. Vjmlhds (talk) 03:14, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

What the heck...let's see what happens. Vjmlhds (talk) 21:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Template:Sandusky Radio → Template:Vacationland (Ohio) Radio – Because the region as a whole has long been known as "Vacationland" (and I have plenty of sources to back it up - see my talk page and you'll see) Vjmlhds 21:20, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - This may very well be a term used to describe the region, but it seems to be neither the official, most descriptive, or most commonly used.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:10, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - These regional radio templates rarely, if ever, use nicknames in place of actual market names. And as someone from Northeast Ohio, I find this potentially confusing not only from a national perspective, but also a local one. Levdr1lp / talk 00:51, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

• Comment: On the one hand, the current title of Sandusky et al is rather cumbersome; however, when I think of "Vacationland", I think of Maine as that's what they call themselves on their license plates, so "Vacationland" by itself is ambiguous.Stereorock (talk) 10:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Note: in response to this comment, the nominator has changed their proposal from Vacationland Radio to Vacationland (Ohio) Radio – Wbm1058 (talk) 12:26, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Template:Sandusky Radio → Template:Vacationland (Ohio) Radio – Clearer description of the region Vjmlhds 13:46, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose – If you ask random people in Ohio who live outside of Sandusky where "Vacationland", Ohio is, I suspect you will get either a quizzical look or several different answers. We don't name templates for promotional purposes. Wbm1058 (talk) 12:41, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

• CommentThere is a Wiki article known as Firelands - which is another name for the area. I have since added info and references to said article which lets people know that the area is also known as Vacationland. Does this move the needle or no? Vjmlhds (talk) 19:33, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Neither source added to Firelands article verifies that "Vacationland" is a modern day name for the region. Looks like WP:OR to me (and I'm not sure it's directly relevant to this move request, either). Levdr1lp / talk 19:45, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Look again...I have 5 different sources that show that the region is in fact known as "Vacationland" - even being officially recognized as such by the Miss Ohio pageant. And don't go throwing WP:V and WP:OR at me...you know better than that. And the Firelands stuff is relevant here, as it shows that the region was notable enough to have an article written about it, and I have since added both info and references showing the modern day name that it is known by. Vjmlhds (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2014 (UTC)~

Whether or not "Vacationland" is a modern day name for "Firelands" is irrelevant here; the issue is whether or not to rename this template. That said, none of your five "sources" in the Firelands article verify that "Vacationland" is the modern day equivalent for "Firelands" or "Sufferers' Lands". But since you're so insistent about these five links, let's examine each directly:

1. Ohio's Lake Erie Vacationland - entry from WordPress.com blog run by the Sandusky Library. No mention of "Firelands" or "Sufferers' Lands" whatsoever, let alone in connection w/ the term "Vacationaland".
2. LakeErieVacations.com - promotional website, apparently online counterpart to advertising publication. Again, no mention of "Firelands" or "Sufferers' Lands".
3. FindYourSpot.com: Sandusky, OH calls itself "greatest resource for relocation information and services" (some type of website for people who are moving?). Sandusky entry calls Lake Erie "Vacationland of the Midwest", and also mentions "Firelands College Theatre", "Firelands Symphony Orchestra", "Bowling Green State University's Firelands College in Huron", and "Firelands Community Hospital" -- but at no point does the site equate "Vacationland" w/ "Firelands".
4. LakeShoreRailMaps.com: Vacationland - apparently an amateur photographer's website on Northern Ohio railroads. No mention of "Firelands" or "Sufferers' Lands".
5. Jacquelyn Mayer as Miss Ohio and Miss Vacationland - photograph of beauty pageant winner. No Mention of "Firelands" or "Sufferers' Lands".

Levdr1lp / talk 19:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

WITHDRAWING REQUEST - I knew this was a mistake, but I got hooked into it. Did a whole lot of work for absolutely nothing. I found probably a dozen or so sources for the Vacationland name and apparently none of them cut the mustard. An not only that I had some sock puppet editor completely screw up the Firelands article. I knew this was gonna happen...I came into this with nothing but good intentions, and did absolutely everything by the book and in good faith - only to have accusations of WP:OR and WP:V thrown at me, on top of nonsense with a vandalizing sock puppet. I should have stuck to my guns and bowed out earlier I did, but at the end of the day, it's my fault for allowing myself to be influenced by others, and not going with my gut. Vjmlhds (talk) 22:59, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

New move request

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the template at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 01:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

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Template:Sandusky Radio → Template:Vacationland (Ohio) Radio – To reflect the collective name for the region Vjmlhds 14:15, 23 November 2014 (UTC) I'd like to try the request again to rename this template to "Vacationland (Ohio) Radio".

In the past month, I have created an article titled Vacationland (Ohio), where I have detailed how the collective region has become known as "Vacationland", and how the area is recognized as such by the Miss Ohio pageant.

This is completely different than the earlier "Firelands" saga, which was completely thrown off the rails by a rouge sock puppet and an SPI, where I was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time and got caught up in it before I was eventually cleared (a long time sock master was ultimately revealed to be the culprit).

Vjmlhds (talk) 14:11, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Vjmlhds: Two points. First, if your intent w/ this thread is to request a move, then -- once again -- you need to follow the steps listed at WP:REQMOVE to request a move. Second, I'm not even sure your Vacationland article satisfies WP:GNG. To be honest, it's beginning to feel like you're actively promoting the term "Vacationland" w/o regard for the actual level of coverage on the subject, and in the absence of any clear consensus on just how to treat content related to the term. This template is just one example. Review the opposing viewpoints in the move request above. Do you really think creating a Vacationland article satisfies any of their concerns? I strongly oppose moving this template for the exact same reasons I stated above. Levdr1lp / talk 19:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

::No agendas...I just wanted to try this one more time without all the nonsense that came with "Fruit" and the Firelands stuff. If my request gets rejected, I can live with it, but I just wanted to do this with everybody having clear heads and no "out of left field" BS gunking things up. Vjmlhds (talk) 23:06, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Vjmlhds: Again, per WP:REQMOVE -- "To request a single page move, create a new section at the bottom of the talk page of the article you want moved..." As for the Firelands article, I don't see what you being cleared of socking has to do with renaming this template. At least 3 other editors weighed in on the previous move request, and they all opposed it. Has anything changed since then? No. "Vacationland" is not widely recognized, at least not by editors on this talk page, nor does it conform to established naming practices for radio market templates. The fact you were involved in a SPI case at the time of the first request is irrelevant. Levdr1lp / talk 00:28, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Withdrawn...not worth the hassle. Vjmlhds (talk) 02:05, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

@Vjmlhds: Technically, it's not clear what you're withdrawing from (because, technically, you still haven't requested a move). You still need to place the move request -- along w/ the appropriate header, template, etc. -- at the bottom of this talk page. It's all laid out very plain and simple at WP:RM/CM. Levdr1lp / talk 02:41, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Lack of consensus, and one too many reverts

I strongly disagree with Vjmlhds' insistence on changing the title of this template to "Vacationland". Two separate page move requests did not yield the consensus Vjmlhds would have hoped for, so I can only assume these most recent edits are a backdoor attempt to shoehorn in his view. I think any calm and levelheaded editor will conclude that, after reviewing Vjmlhds' recent edit summaries and my own talk page, that he is clearly holding onto a grudge for a some past perceived offense on my part. I also wish to point out that I unintentionally violated WP:3RR and will refrain from making further edits to this template for at least 24 hrs. Levdr1lp / talk 00:24, 19 August 2015 (UTC)