Template talk:Nguyễn dynasty topics

Flags and edit summaries

@Greenknight dv:, in response to some parts of this edit, first (1st) of all please use edit summaries. I'm guessing that you removed the flag because of the sentence "Firstly used as a regional flag in Annam and Tonkin. In the World War II, adopted as the national flag of Đại Nam." you added here. Well, the Empire of Đại-Nam were the countries Annam & Tonkin, French Cochinchina existed outside of it, so if the flag was used by Annam & Tonkin but not Cochinchina it was the national flag of Đại-Nam. While Vietnamese nationalist writers at the time included French Cochinchina in their vision of an independent Vietnam, under French rule these were 3 (three) separate countries and Annam & Tonkin remained the Empire of Đại-Nam (Nguyễn Dynasty) while French Cochinchina was a directly controlled French colony. Also, the Nguyễn Dynasty never really regained French Cochinchina as the Japanese still occupied it in 1945. --Donald Trung (talk) 09:30, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: I get that French Cochinchina was not part of Đại Nam. My thought was that this flag, which existed from 1920s, might not well represent the long history of the Nguyễn dynasty. Perhaps all of these images should be removed from this template. We don't usually include images in navboxes, do we? Greenknight dv (talk) 18:08, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Greenknight dv:, first (1st) of all excuse the late reply as I don't receive any pings at the English-language Wikipedia for almost two (2) years now. Concerning "Perhaps all of these images should be removed from this template. We don't usually include images in navboxes, do we?" well, there is a reason why "Image" is an option for navigational templates and generally speaking it's an esthetic choice. Personally I chose these 3 (three) images because they are the three (3) longest used national images of the Nguyễn Dynasty, as the Heirloom Seal of the Southern Realm was created in the 1840's, this was the national flag used the longest and when searching for the "Empire of Annam" I commonly came across it, unfortunately also across the fantasy "Gia Long era Imperial standard" incorrectly dubbed the "Dragon Star Flag", and the national coat of arms (which from what I can read was first used since the Khải Định period but from contemporary evidence I haven't been able to trace it before the Bảo Đại period). I deliberately used this flag here as "a counterweight" to the commonly circulating fantasies as I believe that the readers should be made aware of it, though I agree that it wasn't used that long, as before French domination there was no concept of a "national flag".

"My thought was that this flag, which existed from 1920s, might not well represent the long history of the Nguyễn dynasty.", well, The Manchu Qing Dynasty is often represented with a national flag it has used for less than two (2) decades, but I do understand your reasoning, I just added it because I wanted to add the longest used national symbols of the "Empire of Annam" (the French protectorates of Annam and Tonkin). I could also attempt to merge all three (3) images with some calligraphy or something for the concept of "Nguyễn Dynasty topics". --Donald Trung (talk) 18:31, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Those make sense. Counterweighting widely-circulated but false flags is a good reasoning. Greenknight dv (talk) 03:23, 16 November 2021 (UTC)