Template talk:Coord/Archive 12

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Blue globe

Why does the little blue globe appear sometimes appear next to the coordinates for terrestrial locations and sometimes not? I'm setting up an article draft in my sandbox and can't get the globe to appear. — Ipoellet (talk) 17:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

@Ipoellet: Your recent edits do not show any draft or sandbox activity, so I can't check what you've been doing there. However, you seem to have been working on World War II Valor in the Pacific National Monument, where this version does not show the blue globe but this version does. The obvious difference there is the absence or presence of the bullet at the start of the line, we can test that here:

41°53′22″N 121°22′29″W

• 41°53′22″N 121°22′29″W

which confirms my theory. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:28, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Without the bullet, the globe is moved to the top of the page. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:36, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Or not... I'm quite puzzled by this. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Don't know how to update...

... but the coordinates for US 2–Iron River Bridge are wrong. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

@The ed17:  Fixed - [1] - Thank you. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:52, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

2016 Orlando nightclub shooting

anybody any idea? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oxygene7-13 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Oxygene7-13: I don't see a remaining issue. Minus sign for longitude means W, minus sign for latitude means S. These are called signed decimal coordinates. This is explained in the doc for this template, it has been explained in that talk thread, and the article's coordinates are currently correct. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:13, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Well I made the mistake of assuming it's explained in the doc for this template. After checking my statement it looks like it's not explained very well, as far as I can see. Perhaps that needs some attention. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:26, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

I didn't know about the minus = W, minus = S thingy, now I do, thanx! OXYGENE 7-13 (TALKPAGE) 11:10, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Trouble with List of Cultural Properties of the Philippines in Central Visayas

This page makes a call on {{Philippine cultural property row}} which calls {{coord}}. It includes |name= which doesn't work properly. Sometimes it replies |name=text but also appends with a right parenthesis. Sometimes it doesn't make any reply at all.

I notice at the last line of Template:Philippine cultural property row/doc says …

=== Precision === When giving coordinates, please use an appropriate level of precision. Do not use {{coord}}'s |name= parameter.

What does it all mean? I'm thinking of changing the parameter of {{coord}} to |notes=text, which seems to work. I don't know why {{coord}} needs any name/notes at all. 77.96.18.129 (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Nothing to do with precision. {{coord}} doesn't like wikilink markup in the |name= parameter. {{Philippine cultural property row}} uses |site_name= and |lat= and |long= to assemble a {{coord}} template that looks like this (from the first entry at List of Cultural Properties of the Philippines in Central Visayas):

{{coord|9.622787|123.912254|format=dms|display=inline|name=[[Baclayon Church]] and Complex}}

9°37′22″N 123°54′44″E

If you remove the wikilink markup from the |name= parameter:

{{coord|9.622787|123.912254|format=dms|display=inline|name=Baclayon Church and Complex}}

9°37′22″N 123°54′44″E

The documentation for |name= reads (emphasis added):

• name= can be used to annotate inline coordinates for display in map services such as the WikiMiniAtlas. If omitted, the article's title (PAGENAME) is assumed.

Note: a name= parameter causes {{Coord}} to emit an hCard microformat using that name, even if used within an existing hCard. Do not use when the name is that of a person (e.g for a gravesite), as the generated hCard would be invalid. Also, do not use square brackets in names.

This then suggests that the problem is with {{Philippine cultural property row}}.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 20 July 2016

• The example for "Dresden" has two problems. 1. The Dresden article has 51°2'N 13°44'E as the coords (different from the example) 2. More importantly, the template example has unbalanced numbers; e.g., 51.033°N 13.73°E. It should be changed to {{coord|51.2|13.44|dim:20000}}.

• Same thing for the example Mozart (crater). As the W coordinate has a decimal point, the N should have one too. "{{coord|8|N|190.5|W|globe:mercury}}" should read "{{coord|7.8|N|190.5|W|globe:mercury}}".

– S. Rich (talk) 01:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit template-protected}} is usually not required for edits to the documentation, categories, or interlanguage links of templates using a documentation subpage. Use the 'edit' link at the top of the green "Template documentation" box to edit the documentation subpage. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:04, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

• These examples are not on the documentation page. The locked template page itself needs changing. – S. Rich (talk) 02:27, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

• @Srich32977: 1. Aren't 51.2 and 13.44 "unbalanced"; i.e., different precisions? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by that? After sleep, I now see you that you meant {{coord|51|2|N|13|44|E|dim:20000}}. 2. Although matched precision is a widespread practice, I don't know of a requirement for that (or any real rationale for it), so why is the doc "incorrect" to show mismatched precisions? 3. I would disagree that exactly matching the target article's coordinates is more important than showing useful examples. If the small disagreement is really a problem, I'd sooner un-link the name Dresden, effectively disassociating the example from the article. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:43, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Not locked. The Dresden example is here: Template:Coord-doc-dim and the Mozart Crater example is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates/globe:

—Trappist the monk (talk) 02:57, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Trappist, for the links. I have fixed them. – S. Rich (talk) 16:01, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for collaborating on this. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:25, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Coordinate formats

Please join a discussion of geographic coordinate formats which affects this template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:51, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

RfC notice

Please see related RfC at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#RfC: Deprecate named coordinates-related infobox parameters. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Globe icon not appearing in Mobile view?

The coordinates globe () icon doesn't show up in Mobile View. If the coordinates have the parameter format=hidden, then the absence of the globe icon can even be more confusing, especially if notes pertaining to the coordinates are still visible.

Example in Mobile view: http://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Aklan#Administrative_divisions— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanglahi86 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Region not affecting choice of maps in Geohack

{{Coord}} with "region:GB_type:city" as in Buckfast used to lead to a Geohack page with a GB focus, including ability to get to OS maps. It doesn't seem to be doing so today. The Geohack page displays "Region: GB" but this doesn't seem to influence the menu of maps offered. Has something changed? It's not just this one page - I first noticed the links in List of tripoints of English counties (which use a different template but still go to Geohack) as not being GB-focussed, but it seems general. Is this a bug or a feature? PamD 09:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: @Mandruss: I'm not sure whether either of the discussions you mention above could have led to changes which might have had an unintended consequence, but pinging you both just in case. PamD 09:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I rollbacked an edit by Nouill (talk · contribs) which I'm certain was detrimental, and the cause of this. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:46, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Redrose64 (talk · contribs) You reinsert a beautiful grey square where a "JavaScript disabled" is writed. I don't know why you write your message there (In a wrong section) and not on Template talk:GeoTemplate (Where you have already discuss in the past...). Template talk:GeoTemplate, where you can see the problem is durable and is concern others peoples (See the section : JavaScript disabled??)... --Nouill (talk) 09:57, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

@Nouill: I put my message in the "Region not affecting choice of maps in Geohack" section deliberately, because your edit was the direct cause of the problems described by PamD (talk · contribs) here and at Template talk:Gbmapping. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:34, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Better icon?

Hi. The current globe icon () looks kinda terrible (to me, on my screen); jagged and fuzzy due to bitmap scaling and transparency. How about using the SVG version () instead? And, frankly, I don't get the point of the downward-pointing arrow on the icon, so how about just using the source image ()? Or maybe get someone to design a stylized 2D globe/map icon in black and white for even better legibility (the 3D color globe image is beautiful at full size, but doesn't really scale well to really small sizes; a flat low-color one would). --Xover (talk) 17:22, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The globe isn't added by this template, but a piece of Javascript, whose name escapes me. The globe didn't always have an arrow - it was added, I believe, to indicate that clicking the globe took you somewhere else (WikiMiniAtlas), and not to the same page that the coord link proper takes you. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I… see. I never knew the icon would take you otherwhere than the link; it just looks like one of the MediaWiki external links or file media type icons (who are also decorations on an otherwise plain link). Having finally discovered the WikiMiniAtlas after you pointed it out, I understand why the arrow is there: the map appears as if it was in a drop-down menu, so the arrow is trying to indicate "hey, I'm a drop-down menu". That also explains why they use the semi-translucent (rather than the fully opaque) globe: they need the background to be lighter so that the down arrow shows up against it (i.e. this only works in MediWiki skins that have a white or very light page background color).

Oh well. Trying to track down the relevant script and finding the right place to give feedback about the UI and interaction design issues with this is a bit more effort than I'm prepared to put into it right now. Thanks for the explanation Redrose; at least now I know of the existence of the WikiMiniAtlas thingy. --Xover (talk) 05:29, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@Xover: After some digging, I've found that the script is m:MediaWiki:Wikiminiatlas.js and it was created and maintained by Dschwen (talk · contribs) although the last four changes were by Krinkle (talk · contribs). --Redrose64 (talk) 21:14, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@Xover: The globe was previously used without the downward arrow. I added the arrow as an indication of its function of openeing a dropdown after people complained that the globe alone does not look like it is a fucntional UI element. In my opinion the SVG version is a little too contrasty, but that is a matter of taste (and accessibility , I guess :-) ). --Dschwen 23:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC) Ugh, you already answered most of this yourself :-)

@Dschwen: Thanks for the explanation. However, I think you miss the mark when you point to "taste" and oh-by-the-way-also-accessability as the key issues. I would say that the key issue is one of usability, discoverability, and the interaction model.

The icon, when viewed in isolation, is not optimal because

1. It tries to cram too much (visual) information (detail) into too small a size, making it impossible to discern more than a vaguely green blob rather than the globe that might give you some idea that it is related in some way to maps or cartography.
2. The arrow overlay, which is also very hard to discern visually, does not really signal "dropdown" so much as possibly "download" or something like that.
3. The totality of the icon does not signal that it is a UI widget or that it is in any way an interactive element; nothing about it suggests there is any reason to try to interact with it.
4. Which in turn is exacerbated by being combined with the text link from coord because the learned association with such a pairing are the link decorations that indicate "external link" or "link to PDF file" and so forth.

Which latter issue overlaps with the problem with the totality of this feature (MiniWikiAtlas in combination with the coord link): there are two "interactive" elements for an article's coordinates, that are located close together but uses different UI widgets, and which behave in fundamentally different ways (indeed, are implemented entirely separately). The discoverability and usability problems of it is magnified by being combined with the other feature.

My suggestion for how to approach this is firstly to "pick one", and secondly to "design the hell out of it". That is, an article's coordinates should trigger one feature, and that feature should expend significant effort on being designed well for usability and visual acuity. A possible point of reference might be the the preview "cards" that can appear when you hover over an internal wikilink, which are, I think, turned off and on in user preferences as a "Gadget"; the link works either way, but when enabled the Gadget provides additional functionality (value) in the form of a preview of the link you're about to click. MiniWikiAtlas could appear when you hover over a coord link (or its icon) in a "card" like form, and provide UI widgets (i.e. "buttons") to either zoom to the full browser window (ala. the media viewer) or to open the Geohack service. Whether clicking the link (rather than hovering) should open WikiMiniAtlas or go to the Geohack service is a matter for debate (at least, I don't see that one or the other option is clearly the right one); but having two entirely separate features piggybacking on the same coordinate without integrating and coordinating them leads pretty much only to a poor user experience.

And finally, decorating the coordinate link with an icon is fine (bearing in mind the above), but the icon and the text should behave the same and the icon needs to be visually clear and clearly communicate to the user what it is. My suggestion would be to reduce level of detail (because it doesn't get through at small sizes and only serves to reduce understanding) typically by using an icon that is more stylized (less realistic) and flatter (the faux depth of 3D is detail that adds no value and decreases ease of understanding when viewed at small sizes). That is, something along the lines of these rather than the current one: (or in a pinch: ). Since both the icon and link (if both are shown rather than just one of them) behave identically, and trigger on hover rather than click, you no longer need an arrow symbol to indicate the dropdown, and the icon can be clearer. (BTW, despite the laudable goal of representing the global south that shaped these icons, I would recommend going for the silhouette of America for maximum recognisability as that's what users will be used to from other contexts; at these icon sizes, other concerns must take a back seat to legibility).

Anyways, that was about four paragraphs worth more brain cycles than I had planned to expend on this, so hopefully it'll be in some way useful when you (the collective "you") next sit down to redesign any of these aspects. Cheers, --Xover (talk) 10:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Xover I really appreciate any effort that leads to an improved discoverability and usability of the WMA. So thanks for expending these brain cycles. Leasing my argument with taste was merely reflecting your first comment in this thread. I will certainly not stand in the way of a redesign. --Dschwen 11:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I've generally been quite fond of the simpler de-wiki solution (flat OSM map, and corresponding OSM icon—verses the WMA grayscale rendering and weirdo-ratio-alien-persepctive on en-wiki). If an icon still isn't working, how about testing   ^[map▼]   to match the commonly-recognised footnote, citation, and inline-flagging style. —Sladen (talk) 00:45, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Support for + sign

It could be worth modifying the template to support a leading plus (+) sign for the latitude and longitude values. At present only a leading minus sign (−) is supported. A plus sign would make the northern hemisphere and east latitudes explicit. For example:

{{coord|+44.112|−87.913}}

Currently, the above example yields:

+44.112°N 87.913°W / +44.112; -87.913

The plus sign in the rendered output is unnecessary and redundant and should be suppressed for consistency. Best wishes. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 14:20, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

National grids

Is it acceptable to use the |notes= parameter to insert national grid references into the title line? In countries which have an established national grid system it is often shown on maps and is an easier way to define locations, whereas lat/long may not be shown on road atlases or hikers maps. I've tried using |notes=, {{gbmapping|TQ 74019 68065}} on St. Margaret's Church, Rochester as an example. The comma is needed to force a space between the lat/long and the word "grid". I think this mainly applies to the UK and to Eire, at least they appear to be the only countries with national grid templates listed in category "Coordinates templates". Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:35, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Maybe, we could suggest that the Coord template is modified so the gbmapping could be given as a single input parameter, instead of lat long, and it would generate the lat long, and produce the render you desire. For instance {{Coord|gbmapping="TQ 74019 68065"|display=title}} would automatically produce. Coordinates: 51°23′06″N 0°29′58″E, grid reference TQ 74019 68065.

There is an interesting point here related to editor recruitment and retention: templates should assist the newbie in entering fact into WP, not present them with another arcane barrier that hinders them. The sort of reference books a group of U3A members will use reference a new article, will use the OSGrid- what we want the template to do, is to convert information in a format they are familiar with, into the format needed to produce the encyclopedia we are familiar with. In the case of articles that are likely to be of interest to a specialist group (Watermill hoppers for example), we need a simple format that displays the information they would find in an equivalent printed text.

We need to consider output manipulation as it Convert output parameters with

order=flip

, and other options. Just a few thoughts for others to play with. ClemRutter (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Absent a community consensus one way or the other, this would appear to be a matter of personal opinion, so the word "acceptable" doesn't apply. I wouldn't do it, for the following reasons:
(1) The grid ref is already in the infobox as a separate |osgridref= parameter, introducing a data redundancy. Data redundancy is generally something to be avoided.
(2) Creates an added degree of clutter, both in the wikitext and on the rendered page, just to save the reader having to locate the grid ref as the first item in the infobox, not at all hard to locate. That's a poor trade-off in my opinion.
(3) It's impossible to follow the common practice of showing the coordinates as |display=inline,title, as that would display the grid ref twice in the infobox, unless you removed the |osgridref= parameter.
Worldwide, I think the readers using grid refs are in the minority; I never use them for example. (Just because a reader lives in a country that uses the grid refs doesn't mean they necessarily need it to make effective use of the Wikipedia article.) I simply need something I can click on to get to the interactive map facility, and the coordinates work as well for that purpose as grid ref or anything else (it could just as effectively say "click here for map"). The relatively few readers who actually need to know the grid ref can find it in the infobox.
If an infobox template lacks the |osgridref= parameter, I don't think it would be that difficult to get it added. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:15, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

@Mandruss: I accept that St Mags' is a poor example because the grid ref is in the infobox in this case. It was seeing the change to {{coord}} that started me thinking about the general case. Clem's suggestion above though carries real weight if the conversion is automatic. In my first post I specifically mentioned that this only applied to those countries where there is an established national grid system. You may only ever look at online maps, but here in the UK it is far easier to locate a feature on the OS map using a grid ref rather than trying to use lat/long; after all it is taught in schools (or at least used to be) and organisations like scouts and cadets, let alone hill walkers. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Points taken. Nevertheless, |osgridref= can be added where needed, as I said. I don't doubt the problem, I question your solution to it. You are proposing the introduction of a new, second way to provide the grid ref, when the existing way would work just fine. Why add that degree of complexity as a mere matter of expediency? ―Mandruss ☎ 12:59, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Mandruss, great to talk again. I am starting to look at all of our procedure from the POV of newbies who are enthusiastic enough to attend an editing course but fail to edit. I am looking at the problems from the POV, of the enthusiatic retired academic who really wants to add a few articles but is put off by our modus operandi. Take one example, call her Prof X, who came to a course with a pile of books and a disk of unpublished material. She had written the books, and the files on the disk. We got over the problem of edit/edit source, then we hit references-- and we lost her, her source text was marked up in the way she had done for Oxford University Press, and instead of saying to her 'put all of that in <!-- -->so we could sort it later', we attempted to explain our systems!. That was a step too far and we haven't seen her since. We have to keep the publishing learning curve simple, to gain the confidence of retired academics. We have to start at their starting point if we are going to recruit them.

So applying that lesson to coordinates- I have been around long enough to really appreciate the 'pass by reference' (Old Pascal term) Templates that we use. But to Prof X, they are an unnecessary hurdle- it is data entry we need to keep simple, and we leave it to the templates to transcribe that into what we want. The bullet needs to be bit! In chunks of the world OSGridrefs are the normal way to locate an object. In other places they are unheard of. In the UK, in 1960- 2000, they were taught in every school to any 11 year old who hold a pencil. I was taught Lat and Long as a theoretic system by an enthusiatic maths teacher demonstating base 60 counting, may be when I was 15 hard to say)- but every large scale map in the house had a OS grid. It is the natural way for two generations of potential editors to locate a point, and using another method is a hurdle. We need a method whereby Prof X, and AN Other (retired) can input a Grid Reference- and all our software needs to convert it to something defaulting to Coordinates: 51°23′06″N 0°29′58″E, grid reference TQ 74019 68065

I was immediately convinced about your argument about (1) data redundancy and (2) clutter, until I thought about it. In the normal life history of an article written by a newbie, the infobox isn't written to very much later, and more often added to an article by a future editor. Placing a {{Coord|gbmapping="TQ 74019 68065"|display=title}}, would be a task that took place before the article was switched from Draft to Article space. Later we do need to transfer |gbmapping= {{Coord|gbmapping="TQ 74019 68065"|display=title, inline,clipped}} into the Infobox template, and I would suggest that new syntax is used to allow a bot to clean up cases of conflict. The essential thing is that ifexist_gbmapping then the infobox autofills the lat long boxes, the inline reference is clipped to remove extraneous text and caluculations. Whatever happens and however, the output format should be what we 'Wikipedia lifers' expect and the input is simple enough to help and not confuse the newbie.

The clutter argument I agree with entirely- but which is the clutter? Personally I am too embedded in WP to want change- but I think what we must do is either switch it off with a display tag |display=title, inline, noGB}} or |display=title, inline, nolat}} or |display=title, inline, abbr}}

It is an interesting topic, and worth a bit of thought- the prize would be more editors? ClemRutter (talk) 16:07, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Mandruss, great to talk again. - We have spoken before? lol - and I thought I had a good memory for usernames!
I was unable to follow everything you said, but it sounds like you propose using grid ref to isolate editors from having to understand and use coordinates. This despite the fact that online mapping tools such as Google Maps use coordinates, not grid refs. I entered TQ 74019 68065 in Google Maps and it said "We could not find TQ 74019 68065". Then I entered 51°23′06″N 0°29′58″E and it displayed a map of Rochester, Kent, with a marker at St Margarets. Since everybody who has a computer with Internet access has access to Google Maps, I submit that geocoordinates are the more universal of the two systems. For any spot on the planet, one can use Google Maps to obtain the coords by right-clicking on the spot and choosing "What's here?". They can then choose either format, and they can adjust precision per WP:OPCOORD. Your automatic conversion cannot do either.
Anybody with an IQ above about 95 is capable of learning to use coordinates, and some do so because they find it interesting and rewarding. Others don't find it interesting or rewarding, so they do other kinds of Wikipedia editing. Nobody is required or expected to do everything well or at all.
Regarding editor retention, I feel that issues such as you describe pale in comparison to the problems of (1) hostile environment and (2) unnecessary complexity resulting from a misguided desire for editor freedom (e.g. five names for the same template or guideline, several ways to handle user talk conversations, etc.)—and the community has yet to make a meaningful commitment to improving either area. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:02, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

I think we all need to remember that this was proposed as an addition to help readers, not a replacement. If you are viewing modern maps online, then lat/long does make more sense. Paper maps and historic maps are a different issue. I grabbed the bunch of maps which happened to be lying on top of a filing cabinet. The OS maps Pathfinder (2.5"), Explorer (2.5") and Landranger (1") all show lat/long as small figures on the extremity of the map. To find a location you would need to lay out the map on a table and use a straight edge. The only non-OS map I picked up is from Nicholson (part of Harper Collins) using the Bartholomew mapping at 1.6 miles/1". No lat/long is shown at all. Although unlabelled the grid is OS though (determined by comparison with the equivalent Pathfinder). Out of interest I've just grabbed the road atlas from the car (A-Z) and guess what: no lat/long only the national grid. We all tend to use what is familiar. I'd never dream of using lat/long except for Wiki and when at sea. Conversely a North American reader just wouldn't understand the point of the grid. Let's try to keep all our readers happy. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:41, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

There's a mapping website called Streetmap, which allows OS grid references to be input in the search box - try entering TQ 74019 68065 there. There was another (I forget its name) which allowed the same technique, but it was taken over by another outfit, which in turn was swallowed up by Bing, and the feature disappeared along the way. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:51, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thanks for that Redrose. I've seen and used Streetmap before but had lost sight of it. BTW, of course if you click on the coordinates GeoHack thoughtfully translates to a grid reference, and the top maps are OS maps! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:11, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

@Martin of Sheffield: As I said prreviously: I don't doubt the problem, I question your solution to it. So work to get |osgridref= added to the relevant templates, most important ones first. If it will help, and it very well might, go to WP:VPR and seek a community consensus that this is a Good Thing; I'll support you there unless I see convincing arguments that it is a Bad Thing. You can then reference that consensus on template talk pages where you request the new parameter. You might even recruit one or two template-qualified editors to make the changes, as I did with Wikipedia:Coordinates in infoboxes.
Often, the easiest solution to implement is not the best solution; I feel this is such a case. I always think long term, and it will benefit neither reader nor editor to have two ways of specifying and displaying the same data point. They might inquire as to the reason, and your answer will be, "Well it would have been too much trouble to add the parameter to all those other templates. And now it would be even more trouble to change it back. Sorry." I don't think they will find that answer very satisfying. ―Mandruss ☎ 14:17, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

more tracking

can we track spaces in the 'region/type' field? for example, I just fixed this problem. Frietjes (talk) 16:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

How to extract longitude degrees from a Coord template?

If you know how to extract the longitude degrees from a {{Coord}} template, please offer some assistance at this discussion. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:33, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

I responded there, but for anyone who is just reading here we have {{#invoke:coordinates|coord2text|{{Coord|..}}|long}}. Frietjes (talk) 16:01, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

I have added a section to the documentation too. But having done that it appears the whole /doc is fragile- we have a listing of coordinate parameters but no mention of display parameters. eg |display=inline, title. There seems to be more emphasis on history and deprecated templates than describing usage. I don't like to interfere here- but you know what it is like when you stumble across a page that needs some tender loving care. --ClemRutter (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Overlay

Hi, It is possible to deactivate the overlay on the WikiMiniAtlas for a specific page. On Ottawa River page the WikiMiniAtlas 100km scale is substituted by the 2km scale of the overlay. thx --YB ^✍ 15:53, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Obviously nobody care about that malfunction ! --YB ^✍ 20:04, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

YB, can you not set the scale in the {{coord}}? Frietjes (talk) 23:29, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I did but when there is an overlay it is the overlay scale that overwrite. --YB ^✍ 01:04, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

YB, try asking at WP:VPT. Frietjes (talk) 13:54, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

decimal degrees to degrees, minutes, and seconds of arc

I was adding a coord tag to an artical using decimal degrees, however this results in the geohack to linking to the right place on the google map.

I haven't had this issue with degrees, minutes, and seconds of arc, has anyone else had an issue? Back ache (talk) 07:21, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Back ache: I'm guessing that you mean these edits. The main problem is that you have set |W instead of |E - the meridian runs right through Hayes, and positive longitudes are east. But I'm puzzled why you removed the coords from the infobox - in doing so, you have lost several important pieces of information - such as the type, region and scale. You have also gone from four places of decimals to seven, which is very much overprecise - this gives an "accuracy" of just one centimetre. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:22, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@redrose Thanks for looking at that, I agree that the right place should be in the infobox, especially as infobox's are often used by wikidata as a source of scraping.

However, I have been using http://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Special:Nearby and unfortunately unless the CoOrd tage is at the top of the source the geographic information is often ignored by the indexer, with the rise of mobile devices as a way to access wikipedia and microdata as a way to search it, this cannot be ignored Back ache (talk) 11:03, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Back ache: Special:Nearby is something that I've never encountered before. Your comments imply that there is a problem with this utility (if utility it is), and so we should address this by fixing the utility, rather then moving the coordinates out of the infobox. If nothing else, the sheer scale of that task (Wikipedia has over five million articles, over two million of which have infoboxes, although not all of these have coordinates as well) would be prohibitive, and should not be undertaken without discussion. I've started a thread at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Special:Nearby. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:53, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Our location database (which is feeding the results of Special:Nearby and other forms of our maps), by default only queries the primary coordinates of pages (title coordinates). Title coordinates are usually visible at the top right of a page, and the older revision of Back ache's case already produces them. The solution for an infobox that doesn't produce title coordinates, is to check if that infobox has a parameter like coordinates_display, which {{Infobox UK school}} has, or fix the infobox to support controls like that. There was no need to move the coordinates here. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:28, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@TheDJ: That isn't what I've been finding, I've moved to a new job and used Special:Nearby to see whats around, what I have found is pages with coordinates arn't being listed till I move the CoOrd tag to the top of the source.Back ache (talk) 12:33, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Back ache: Then that is a problem that should be reported, not something that the content should be adapted to. (Adapting content to match a software problem should always be the last resort, after having checked that it is in fact the correct solution). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:37, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@TheDJ: The version as it stood prior to Back ache's edits did have title coordinates. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:36, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Example for a page with Template:Infobox UK School, which is registered in our coordinates database correctly: Paul's School, London. If that doesn't show up in Special:Nearby, then something else is going wrong. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:44, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

And this is the query that retrieves all coordinates around the coordinates of Hayes School. link. This matches what Special:Nearby would request. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@TheDJ: and yet, this morning when used special:nearby in Hayes this morning the school wasn't listed, hence my editing. For now I'll only alter articles that have coords tags (and move them to the top) once I can build a good test case I'll raise a bug. I really like the idea of geographically enabling wikipedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Back ache (talk • contribs) 14:51, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I think this thread has over-complicated things. The problem here is that the only way to tell Template:Coord to mark coordinates through the #coordinate magic word as primary is to position them near the title of the article (e.g. display=title). In my opinion the solution is as easy as just allowing users to specify themselves if the primary tag should be used or not. So, I would like to propose that an new argument is added, called "primary" and if an translusion mentions "primary=yes" then it is marked as primary. I would keep "display=title" being marked as primary, just so that thousands of articles do not need to be edited. The #coordinates magic word itself has an error if there are several primary coordinates on an page and an tracking category, so this template does not need to track that.--Snaevar (talk) 19:54, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, special nearby seems to be missing a lot of geocodes in infoboxs just in my local area, so I assume it's a wider issue Back ache (talk) 00:33, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Enard Bay

Hi can anybody provide help regarding Enard Bay. I'm having problems with setting the coords in the Infobox:body of water. Any help would be appreciated. It's coming back with the Lua exception error: 58°05′45.0240″N -5°20′11.0688″E Coordinates: longitude degrees < 0 with hemisphere flag : invalid longitude scope_creep (talk) 12:13, 26 March 2017 (UTC)::

Fixed it. It was the formatting. Copied the infobox from a Russian page and it was set to wrong locale scope_creep (talk) 12:22, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Decimal vs. degrees/minutes/seconds

I'm starting to construct a list article, and am finding the coordinates for the locations involved expressed in both decimal form (41.289°S 174.777°E) and degree/minute/second form (57°18′22″N 4°27′32″W). Given that I'm going to have to convert some of them, is there any reason to prefer one form over another? Is there any advantage to a reader, or to other software that might want to make use of the data? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:57, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

One very minor point: a minute of latitude is one nautical mile, so using degrees and minutes makes distance estimation easier. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:39, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

There is a Wikipedia-centric reason to prefer decimal degrees over degrees-minutes-seconds (DMS). Most people would write the first DMS angle Mike Christie wrote as 57°18'22" because it only contains one symbol not found on the typical keyboard. Presumably there is a great deal of software expecting the use of the quote and double quote characters. But strictly speaking it should be written as 57°18′22″ (57°18&prime;22&Prime; in the wikitext editor) because the correct symbols for prime and double prime are different from quote and double quote. The wikitext editor can be configured in various ways; the default configuration provides the ′ and ″ symbols below the edit window, but not all configurations do. Heaven only knows if the visual editor supports those characters.

Then there are lots of gnomes who write bots to "correct" things so whatever minute or second symbol an editor writes is likely to get changed to something "better" by a bot. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:47, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

If you use the {{coord}} template (e.g. 41°17′20″S 174°46′37″E or 41.289°S 174.777°E / -41.289; 174.777), you won't have to worry about the prime symbols or do any math. The template will construct the prime symbols for you and do the conversions. That way, the prime symbols won't get "corrected" to straight quotes by well-meaning gnomes, and it will be easy to change the format with a find and replace if a talk page discussion settles on the other format. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:39, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Just to "throw a spanner in the works", be aware that degrees and decimal minutes are used in some contexts. For instance the following was abstracted from a nautical chart correction notice: "Insert restricted area line joining: 51°28’·11N 1°03’·19E ...". Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:52, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Unless there is some guideline that specifically precludes this, one solution to the problem is to allow both formats in the list. Messy inconsistency may be the lesser of various evils in this case. If we could agree on "any reason to prefer one form over another", we would probably have a house default format. My personal preference is decimal for various reasons, FWIW. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:29, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the various responses. Jc3s5h, the symbols I pasted in were copied from the example under "Quick how to" at Template:Coord, so I'm surprised that they include an apostrophe, and not a prime. Yes, I think VE does include the prime; it seems to include most characters I've ever found a need for, though since I'll be generating these coordinates via the template I won't actually need the prime.

I'll use the dms; as pointed out above, it's an easy search-and-replace change to make it dec if needed. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:23, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Type for 4th-level admin unit

A civil parish in England, such as Allithwaite Upper or Kirklinton Middle, is listed in List of administrative divisions by country as a 4th-level admin unit. So what "Type" do we use for its coords? Does it count as "City"? PamD 06:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

@PamD: It says "cities, towns, villages, hamlets, suburbs, subdivisions, neighborhoods, and other human settlements" so yes. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Icon position error

Moved to Module talk:Location map § Icon position error

 – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:48, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I noticed that the position of the airplane icon (the "pushpin_mark" graphic) is misleading in the Joint Base Anacostia–Bolling article. It appears at the tip of Greenleaf Point, even though the coordinates for JBAB appear to be correct in the template. Clicking on the Coordinates text in the article as displayed shows the correct location about a mile south of Greenleaf Point. At first I thought this error was related to the fact that the pushpin label wraps across three lines, but reducing the label to one line doesn't solve the problem. So I don't know how to fix the problem, but it seems to be real enough. 76.22.118.146 (talk) 02:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

JB Anacostia–Bolling

See the pushpin map at right. Is the aeroplane icon displayed in the correct position here? If it is, there is some sort of problem in extracting coordinate values from {{Coord|38|50|34|N|077|00|58|W|name=JB Anacostia–Bolling|display=inline,title}} but if it is also wrong, the problem is nothing to do with {{coord}} but concerns {{Location map}}, and is most likely to be the corner coordinates that are recorded at Template:Location map USA District of Columbia. The best place to discuss that is at Module talk:Location map. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:53, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

JB Anacostia–Bolling

Replacing the map name with "Washington, DC" works for some reason, even though the location map in question appears to be a redirect. I must be looking in the wrong place for the map that is used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Display influences more than display

I noticed that display=inline influences two distinct things:

• Where coordinates are displayed on the page: inline only.
• Results of API requests: coordinates are not included when the coordinates property is requested.

An example is Villa Farnesina, which displayed coordinates only inline, in the info box. Displaying coordinates at the top of the page too (display=inline,title) seems superfluous, but it results in queries returning the actual geo location of the subject.

I wonder if this should be clarified in the documentation for the template. Superp (talk) 12:56, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

The API looks for primary coordinates. Primary coords are those with title somewhere in the |display= parameter. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:00, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, 🌹. Until today I did not realise this effect. I suspect many editors don't. Hence my API calls return no geo data for many articles which in fact do have coordinates intended as "primary". Superp (talk) 20:17, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

South pole coords

Is there a way to make this template display 90°0′S without the E/W component? Listing an ice core drilled at the S pole in list of ice cores seems to require me to add 0°0′W, though in the sources it's usual to omit the longitude component, for obvious reasons. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:38, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

{{coord|-90|0}} → 90°S 0°E / -90; 0 --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:07, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

The request is to not show "0°E" which does not make sense at a pole. I doubt it can be done, and it may break various processes that scrape coordinates from articles, or may break the link that coord can produce. Johnuniq (talk) 11:33, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

{{#invoke:coordinates|dec2dms|-90|N|S|DM}} → 90°00′S Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:46, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

That does it. I'm sympathetic to the processes that scrape coords, but I don't think I should display things in a non-standard way in order to protect those processes. It does lose the link functionality. Might be nice to add this capability as a special case to the template. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:28, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Does the #invoke offer some advantage over straight text? As it loses the link functionality, wouldn't this would work equally well? 90°00′S → 90°00′S ―Mandruss ☎ 00:56, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

I assumed without thinking about it much that the benefit was that it could be identified as a coordinate reference, whereas the plain text might be less easy for automated tools to find. Perhaps I assumed too much; Martin of Sheffield, can you comment? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:30, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm probably in agreement with Mandruss as things stand at the moment. You specifically asked about the template but as it stands the only way seems to be to force it past the point of usefulness. That said, if the two special cases of the poles could be accommodated in the public interface then it would be an improvement. The code already checks for >90° so it ought to be possible to do it, but I'm no Lua expert and also I'm neither a template editor nor an admin so can't assist further. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:20, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Do others agree that this would be a good change to make? If so, and if nobody who reads this page volunteers to make the change, I can try to find someone to do it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:24, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree the template should not display any longitude if the latitude is exactly -90 or exactly 90. In that case, if possible, the longitude argument should be optional. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

It is such a rare special case that I think the Coord template should not be changed. Copy-paste the Coord template to something new, like template:Coord-south-pole and modify it for the special case you wish to address. --doncram 12:26, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Agree about the optional, but not just exactly 90°. For instance at 89°59'54" you are only 200m or so from the pole and a degree is about 3.3m. (If someone does take this on could they see if it would be possible to add the option to use decimal minutes? A degree latitude is 1 nm and on maritime charts they are usually plotted as 51°26'.460 rather than 51.4410 or 51°26'28". Maritime GPS systems may also use this format. If it would be too much effort then don't bother.) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Since there is some disagreement about exactly -90 or 90, vs. values that are not exactly at the pole but round to -90 or 90 when expressed to some degree of precision, I think we should go with Doncram's suggestion to have a separate template that only work exactly at the poles. By using the new templates, the editor will be making an explicit statement that the position is exactly at the north pole and so the longitude is undefined. The existing coordinate template should have the capability to describe, as an example, the position of geodetic markers at the south pole (which would have to be qualified with a point in time, since the pole moves and so does the ice), even though this would require adding a decimal point and digits to the right of the decimal point in the seconds field. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:56, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Doncram's theory is great in principle, except that it's unworkable in practice. Here's the source code of the template in its entirety:

<includeonly>{{#invoke:Coordinates|coord}}</includeonly><noinclude>
{{Documentation}}
</noinclude>

there's nothing here that can easily be altered. This is one of the reasons that I have always been against Lua: you can't modify templates any more, unless you understand Lua (which I don't, and I'm willing to be that there are others who don't) and are certain of what you are doing - a small change to Module:Coordinates may cause ripples that lead to tidal surges down the line. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 06:03, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

It could be worse, you could be template-ignorant too, like me. Knowledge is power. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Templates are a doddle compared to Lua. Mostly, you use ordinary Wikicode - the primary extra feature is when you have parameters. So when using a template in an article, you might put the latitude degrees in the first parameter as |-90 - and in the template itself you put {{{1}}} to obtain the value of the first parameter. Similarly, |format=dms is read as {{{format}}} So if you inspect the source code for a template, you can easily find out all the recognised parameters by looking for triple braces. Now, I have asked many times, but nobody can tell me how to find out what parameters a Lua module will recognise. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:19, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

mass changes to infoboxes by IP editor

Hello all- Wanted to alert Team Coord that an IP editor has edited a few dozen articles today with seemingly ineffectual changes, leaving the summary updated coordinate template: Special:Contributions/134.130.139.104. I reverted one change, but as I'm no expert in this realm, I wanted to bring it to the attention of others. Eric ^talk 15:56, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

I looked through all of the edits and fixed a few errors. Triborough Bridge was the nastiest one. The other changes look harmless, unless there is consensus in specific projects to not show coords in the title. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

"consensus in specific projects" Not this again. Projects do not get to determine consensus for the wider Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:35, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the work

but if you're going to take the trouble of creating an error response to the type= formatting that you know users are going to employ... just make that formatting work. There's no reason for the variant colon typography in the first place, but coding compatibility with standard formatting makes more sense than coding error messages if you're taking the time to do either. — LlywelynII 20:45, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Line breaks

Is there a parameter to force a line break (or alternatively require a non-breaking space) between lat and lon? This would be helpful in some tables with multiple coords to create narrower column widths or more consistent and uniform displays regardless of the user's screen resolution. Fortguy (talk) 07:14, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

It's a hack, but you could print the lat and long separately using these instructions. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

It's a very bad hack. It removes the microformat markup, and overrides user choice of display preference. Quite apart from that, it seems to have no advantages over using plain text. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:33, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

So negative today. How about a constructive suggestion that meets the editor's needs? – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:13, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I find posting bad advice, that suggests breaking machine-readable content to try to make it look pretty, to be negative. YMMV. The OP will find a handy list of the template's parameters in the template's documentation. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:08, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

since we are suggesting hacks, try this one {{#invoke:string|replace|{{Coord|57|18|22|N|4|27|32|W}}|([NS]</span>)|%1<br>|plain=false}}. of course the better solution would be to add an option to the template to insert the br tag. Frietjes (talk) 17:35, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Adding that template option would be enormously useful for my purposes, and probably for many other editors as well. I'd love to see the template modified to force a br tag and alternatively a nbsp character. Fortguy (talk) 05:36, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Fortguy, if your only goal is to force it to wrap onto two links why no do this? or, if you want to force them to not line wrap, try {{nowrap}}. Frietjes (talk) 17:04, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, that works great! Fortguy (talk) 18:30, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Use Wikidata ranks?

At Kasubi Tombs (Q309426) there is now a deprecated coordinate (from a database that appears to contain an error) and a normal rank coodinate (the corrected coords). However, it seems that using this template at Kasubi Tombs (via the inclusion of this template in {{Infobox World Heritage Site}}) fetches the deprecated value (since it is the first in the list) rather than following the ranking. Please could that be changed so that the ranking is followed? For now there is a local override in place in the article for the coordinates. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:17, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

More info at User talk:RexxS#Preferred ranks problem (informing RexxS). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:40, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

I thought this and Module:Wikidata use different code / were developed by different people? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:44, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

No Mike, you upgraded {{Infobox World Heritage Site}} to be Wikidata-aware on 5 May 2017, using the calls in Wikidata & WikidataIB. --RexxS (talk) 13:02, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

@RexxS: For the coordinates it uses {{Coord|nosave=1|display=inline|format=dms}} though - not Module:Wikidata/Module:WikidataIB. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:20, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Degrees and decimal minutes

I've been doing a bit of experimenting in my sandbox and found that degrees and decimal minutes work: {{coord|51|25.813|N|0|43.945|E}} -> 51°25.813′N 0°43.945′E. This of use in navigation where charts and almanacs are conventionally marked up in degrees and decimal minutes. Is everyone happy if I go ahead and update the documentation to reflect this?Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia API ignoring inline coordinates

I see the caveat that "Tools which read Wikipedia database dumps (such as Google Earth) often ignore inline coordinates.", but I'm surprised that this extends to the Wikipedia API itself! Asking the API for the geocoordinates of, say, the Somerset House article (which includes an inline {{coord}} in the infobox, but not beside the title) returns no coordinates.

I don't know how common it is for infoboxes to be inadvertently written like this, but it seems like a potentially large hole in Wikipedia's data. Should this be addressed, perhaps through clever templating (if an article has no title coords and the first infobox on the page includes inline-only coordinates, add those coordinates to the title) or a bot that searches for and flags articles that appear to have this oversight? --Gapfall (talk) 08:46, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually it looks like a bot by User:JJMC89 is doing a very similar thing at Wikipedia:Coordinates in infoboxes, converting deprecated "latd"-type infobox fields into coord templates, and (possibly?) adding display=title to all of these in the process. If this bot has found a logical way to add display=title to infoboxes where it's appropriate, would it be useful to extend that to infoboxes with coord templates which lack it? --Gapfall (talk) 10:15, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

@Gapfall: by default the api only returns primary coordinates (those presented next to the title, the only way to indicate atm a coordinate applies to an entire article). By setting coprimary option, you can change this. Result —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:11, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

@TheDJ: Thanks, I hadn't seen that option!

What about queries where I'm searching for articles near to an article which lacks primary coordinates? https://en.wiki.x.io/w/api.php?action=query&list=geosearch&gspage=Somerset%20House&gsradius=10000&gslimit=10 returns "Page coordinates unknown". --Gapfall (talk) 11:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

@Gapfall: you can't. You are searching by article. The article has no primary coordinates, so there is no starting point to search from. Either provide coordinates manually, or fix the article. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:22, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, so it's really "fix the article" territory. Does this sound like a safe thing for a bot to do automatically? --Gapfall (talk) 12:26, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

I support the general idea here, but a bot is not the first step. Not all coordinates in infoboxes should have "title" added to the display automatically. You would first need an RFC to gain sitewide approval to display coords in the title of any article with coordinates (which I would support). Then you would need to discuss how to write a very clever bot to avoid duplicated or conflicting coordinates. Take a look at Fenway Park as an example: there are two sets of coordinates, one inline and one both inline and title. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

It wouldn't be too difficult for a write a bot to add/change to |display=inline,title once the process at Wikipedia:Coordinates in infoboxes is complete. Though, as Jonesey95 said, a RfC is needed to establish consensus for such a change. The issue that I see coming up is how to select which set of coordinates should be primary when there is more than one set on a page. — JJMC89 (T·C) 20:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

@Jonesey95 and JJMC89: Sorry, missed these replies until now. Thanks for the feedback, and I agree that multi-coordinate articles would be tricky. How and where could I start an RfC on this? --Gapfall (talk) 16:51, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requests for comment for the process. I would post the RfC at WP:VPR. Something to consider: Should |primary= be added to the template for cases where we want to set primary coordinates without having them with the title. FYI, |nosave= prevents coordinates from being designated as primary. — JJMC89 (T·C) 04:47, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I raised it following the style of other discussions on that page and it got archived after only one person responded. Not sure what to do next. --Gapfall (talk) 09:46, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

That other person being Anomie (talk · contribs). One possible problem is that you didn't actually start a formal RfC (as advised by two people above), in that you didn't use the {{rfc}} template, so it wasn't publicised to anybody who wasn't already watching VPR; and those who were watching it weren't aware of its status. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:17, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

It felt wrong to format it as an RFC once I'd read the page, because there weren't any others there (but plenty of support/oppose votes anyway), and I wasn't sure I could get it down to the suggested brevity of the "Should the History section contain a photograph of the ship?" example. I see now there's a suggestion for cases where the poster has "lots to say on the issue", so okay, thanks, I'll try raising it again some time. --Gapfall (talk) 08:13, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

@Gapfall: To see examples of currently-open RfCs, have a look at WP:RFC/A. This is subdivided into the various RfC categories, and for each category, all of the open RfCs in that category are listed. Each list entry comprises a link to the RfC proper, followed by the RfC opening statement, an optional signature and mandatory timestamp. You may notice that some of these RfCs are listed more than once, this happens when they are in more than one RfC category. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:09, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

The bot only adds |display=inline,title if the infobox was already doing so. — JJMC89 (T·C) 20:47, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Minus sign

This template produces a circle (globe?) that says "Show location on an interactive map" when the mouse rolls over. At the lower right is a horizontal line that looks like a minus sign, although several features above and below that line can make it look more like a plus sign. For several minutes I thought I had discovered a major coordinates problem, because I was misreading Southern Hemisphere locations as Northern Hemisphere, based on squinting at the phantom minus/plus sign. I didn't figure it out until I tried looking at the edit page code. Am I the only one having that problem? If not, can we remove that line? Art LaPella (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Please give an example page where you see this problem. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:55, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

And name your browser. The globe has a down-pointing triangle at the lower right: File:WMA button2b.png. Is it the triangle which looks like a plus or minus in your browser? It's clearly a triangle for me, also at the size used in articles, and its top is at the bottom of the coordinates so there is no risk of confusion. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:17, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Your own template document page, and all other examples I looked at. Firefox, but it looks the same in Chrome. Yes, it clearly looks like a triangle, now that you told me, but before that insight I thought it was a line with a red dot under it. The top of the triangle is just above the bottom of the coordinates because my font size is set to 26. It goes to the bottom by setting the font size to 12, which I think is the default. Font size 26 makes several Wikipedia things look wrong, so maybe we shouldn't worry about it. Art LaPella (talk) 01:49, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

So, the problem is that the triangle looks like something else... but red? Anyway, the triangle has been misunderstood before, see e.g. Template talk:Coord/Archive 12#Better icon?. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 06:07, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Tracking category

Is there any tracking category, which gives a list of articles using this template directly and not through any infobox? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 07:24, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

No. It would be difficult to implement such a category—the only way would be for the template to always add a category, and for each infobox to remove the category. If there is a demonstrable need to get a one-off list of such articles, you could ask at WP:VPT and someone might have a suggestion regarding searching, probably by a script searching a dump of all articles. One problem is that it might be hard to provide a definition of what is an infobox, although I suppose any template containing "infobox" in its title would do. Johnuniq (talk) 07:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

coord not appearing on Thornton Chase

at the top of the article, any ideas? I've tried fewer decimals, using sec/min, without the minus… Smkolins (talk) 13:49, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Smkolins, looks like the problem was fixed for you. Frietjes (talk) 14:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, |display= did not have a valid value. — JJMC89 (T·C) 14:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

thanks - I took the option to be asking for visible text, not placement. Thanks again. Smkolins (talk) 14:32, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Coordinates not available through API when fetching them from Wikidata through this template?

@Gapfall: has pointed out that the coordinates in Royal Observatory, Greenwich aren't currently accessible through the Wikipedia API (example URL). The coordinates in that article are now provided from Wikidata through {{Infobox Observatory}}, which in turn uses this template to fetch and display the coordinates. I don't know how the coordinates are normally provided to the API, but something in this system seems to be breaking it. The code in Infobox Observatory is:

{{#if:{{{coordinates|{{{coords|{{{coord|}}}}}}}}} | {{#invoke:Coordinates|coordinsert|{{{coordinates|{{{coords|{{{coord}}}}}}}}}|type:landmark|{{#if:{{{location_country|}}}|region:{{CountryAbbr|{{{location_country}}}}}}}}} | {{#if:{{#Property:P625}} | {{Coord|3=type:landmark{{#if:{{{location_country|}}}|_region:{{CountryAbbr|{{{location_country}}}}}}}|nosave=1|display=inline,title|format=dms}} }} }}

Is there anything missing here that's needed to make the API work correctly, or is this an issue with this template? (Also @Jc3s5h, who brought this to my attention.) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

See #Wikipedia API ignoring inline coordinates above. I haven't decoded the wikitext you posted but apparently it is necessary that title be specified to say that the coordinates are "primary", that is, they refer to the location of the subject of the article. Johnuniq (talk) 00:07, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: I'm setting display=inline,title in this case - does the order need to be changed here? Sorry for the messy code, it's mostly for legacy reasons, and I'll try to tidy it up at some point. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 00:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

I do not think the order matters. By "haven't decoded", I just meant I was too lazy to read it; I wasn't suggesting the code was unduly complex! Now that I've looked at it a little, I see my comment was redundant. Searching the template for "wikidata" shows mention of {{WikidataCoord}}. Perhaps that should be used? Johnuniq (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm happy to switch to that template, but I'm not sure if that would fix this issue. (Also, the functionality of that template should be merged in here at some point - but that's a different topic!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 01:25, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

For what it's worth I'm getting the same problem (coincidentally related to the thread below) on Template:Infobox World Heritage Site. On an article such as Ajanta Caves, which gets all of its infobox data from Wikidata, the API returns no coordinates at all (not even secondary ones). --Gapfall (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Months later I'm finding the same issue on {{Infobox telescope}} (eg. [2]). Is this Wikidata issue fixable? --Gapfall (talk) 09:38, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

{{Infobox telescope}} uses |nosave=1 in {{Coord}}, which prevents the coordinates from being flagged as primary. |nosave= is also set for {{Infobox observatory}} and {{Infobox World Heritage Site}}. — JJMC89 (T·C) 15:25, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Got it. Should we add a way to override nosave with an infobox parameter? And should nosave=0 even be the default setting? (If we're fetching wikidata information by putting a blank {{Infobox telescope}} onto an article, would that always be an article about the telescope, so safe to assume that coordinates are primary? I'd assume that if we wanted to add an infobox about a telescope halfway down an article about something else, with its own set of coordinates, {{Infobox telescope}} wouldn't work by itself anyway.) --Gapfall (talk) 09:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

That would be a discussion for the individual infobox talk pages. I don't know why |nosave= is set in the first place. — JJMC89 (T·C) 02:23, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

WikiMiniAtlas overlay not working

When I click on the globe icon for the WikiMiniAtlas overlay, I get a 502 Bad Gateway error. Other users have reported this elsewhere. I'm not sure if this is an error in coord, or with WMA itself. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 03:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@Pi.1415926535: This is the same issue as Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Globe link to the left of title coordinates gives 502 Bad Gateway error where replies have been posted. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:49, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Tracking category for unsupported parameter usage?

I have added tracking for unsupported parameters to many templates using Module:Check for unknown parameters, but I do not know how to insert it into a Lua module. Do we just invoke it from the template, like regular templates, or is there a special way to do it within the module?

Here is a report showing unsupported parameter usage. I would be happy to create the tracking category and fix many of the errors. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:56, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

See {{Authority control}} for a how-to example—it's the same as normal. I have included parameter checking in a couple of modules that I've written because the module has more knowledge about what is valid so the checks can be more thorough. However that might be more effort than warranted in this case. Johnuniq (talk) 06:30, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I have added error-checking to this template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:49, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Override Wikidata coordinates

An issue was posted to Wikipedia:Help desk#Technical problem with geographical coordinates (permanent link). Is there a way to override Wikidata coordinates in WikiMiniAtlas? If not then shouldn't there be? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:56, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Multiple types?

Can you have multiple types for coords? If so, how do you express it? Or do you just have to pick one? If just one, which one? For example, if I have an island which is also a suburb, do I use city or isle? Thanks Kerry (talk) 14:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Only one is permitted. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:59, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Kerry, per the documentation the type is used for selecting an icon in the miniatlas and for setting the zoom scale. however, in my experience, the icons are generally the same for the types that I have encountered. Frietjes (talk) 15:13, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Migrate from WMA to Kartographer

Hi all, in following up on the last WMA service failure - it was recommended we migrate from WikiMiniAtlas to mw:Help:Extension:Kartographer. This extension is installed, but will need some testing to become the primary replacement. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:48, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: Which part of Kartographer do you want to use for this? It's not all enabled here yet, see phab:T175102. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: Replacing the coordinates pop-up, at least that is what I think is being used in this dewiki example: w:de:Benutzer:Xaosflux/Sandbox (the green map/magnifying glass example). — xaosflux ^Talk 19:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Ah, that seems to work OK here, e.g.: 37°48′37″N 122°23′58″W. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Some styling maybe? That is opening in to a new link, rather than "squeezing" in? — xaosflux ^Talk 20:54, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Note that I have a gadget for the mobile platform, that already does this. I'd suggest trying that out first before moving the entirety of English Wikipedia over. Last time i tried doing that, it got stuck in bureaucracy because i made a mistake, which has demotivate from working on it any further, but it would be an interesting step to first enable that gadget for en.wp users, then for en.wp anonymous, and then after that follow trough on desktop. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:46, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for the headaches there TheDJ - this last outage should help reinforce that for something reader-facing we should have something that is on servers with SLO's for outages. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:06, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@TheDJ, Xaosflux, and Mike Peel: Is this going to happen? I remember there might have been something about Community Tech wanting to install it, but they've moved onto another project now. Jc86035 (talk) 15:46, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jc86035: Kartographer was installed here a couple of months back, it should be ready to use... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:25, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: Sorry, I meant I thought they were planning to add it to Module:Coordinates. I'm aware that it's in use, but it's barely a drop in the bucket if there are still a million links to WikiMiniAtlas with this template. Jc86035 (talk) 16:26, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jc86035: Ah, no, that's something the community has to do, the WMF won't do that. Maybe @RexxS and Jarekt: might be interested in helping out. (BTW, Kartographer is providing 600k+ maps on Commons now!) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

"source"parameter question

• Is there any tools related to the template that helps convert between coordinate value between different systems/values?
• What are the most common value used in the source field for Chinese encrypted(encoded) coordinate system GCJ02/BD09II?

C933103 (talk) 00:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I just paste into google maps and copy the coord plain text, check the pointer, re copy and paste back, and use the format option to make it what I want. Dave Rave (talk) 07:23, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

"display=inline"

When used in template "Infobox church", the coordinates are shown beneath the image. In "Infobox venue" and "Infobox building" (for example), they appear in the "Coordinates" line in the box. Is this behavior correct? Jmar67 (talk) 13:43, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Please link to some example articles that show this difference. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:52, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Here are the links:

Theater Bremen

St. Georg, Brockhagen

Schloss Weilburg

Jmar67 (talk) 16:46, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Template:Infobox venue has

|  label5     = [[Geographic coordinate system|Coordinates]]
|   data5     = {{{coordinates|}}}

similarly, Template:Infobox building has

| label18   = [[Geographic coordinate system|Coordinates]]
|  data18   = {{#if:{{{coordinates|}}}|{{#invoke:Coordinates|coordinsert|{{{coordinates|}}}|type:landmark|{{#if:{{{location_country|}}}|region:{{Country abbreviation|{{{location_country}}}}}}}}}|}}

- both have a label/data pair displayed side by side, but Template:Infobox church has

| data1 = {{#if:{{{coordinates|}}}
 |{{#invoke:Coordinates|coordinsert|{{{coordinates}}}|type:landmark|{{#if:{{{country|}}}|region:{{Country abbreviation|{{{country}}}}}}}}} |}}

i.e. it does not have a |label1= to pair up with its |data1= so that the latter is displayed full width. This is nothing to do with Template:Coord, it is a matter for Template talk:Infobox church. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:02, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Map marker drift for Google Maps vs OSM in China

Anyone know why on Shanghai Tower, the coordinates of the map marker are correct for OSM but for Google maps, are across the road? Opencooper (talk) 03:40, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Opencooper, strange. checking the other links in GeoHack it appears there is some disagreement on the location. Google maps thinks the tower is at 31.235289°N 121.505774°E / 31.235289; 121.505774 while OpenStreetMap says 31.2355°N 121.501°E / 31.2355; 121.501. it would be informative to have someone who lives in the area tell us which one is correct. Frietjes (talk) 16:00, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the details, but our article "Restrictions on geographic data in China" might be relevant. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@Jc3s5h: That seems to be it exactly! If region:CN is added to the coordinates like 31.2355°N 121.501°E / 31.2355; 121.501, GeoHack specifically has a note for this. Perhaps this template should mention being careful with Chinese coordinates (I could easily see someone adding Google's coordinates without verifying if they adhere to the obfuscated Chinese system)? Opencooper (talk) 00:04, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Coordinates for all places of a municipality with their boundary visible

Hello, I'm looking for a template "coord"/"GeoGroup" which includes the coordinates of all places of a municipality and their boundary visible (together). Can anyone help with a solution?

--> Talk: Template_talk:GeoGroup#Coordinates_for_all_places_of_a_municipality_with_their_boundary_visible Greetings from Germany Triplec85 (talk) 20:28, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Uncertainty?

While copyediting the article Mattanur, I found this:

Between 11° 52' 34" and 11° 58' 51" north and 74° 32' 24" and 75° 37' 38" east.

I know that there is a coordinate template (this) but is there one that handles uncertainty?

Thanks in advance, Ben79487 (talk contribs) 03:28, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Looking at the article it is not uncertainty (11° 55' ± 5') but size (from 11° 52' 34" to 11° 58' 51"). I would express it along the lines of: "Mattanur is located at ... 11°55′N 74°35′E and extends for around 3 miles (4.8 km) in each direction." Sailors (and airmen) will happily switch between minutes and miles, but most readers will have no idea what a minute is on the ground. Also consider MOS:COORDS, in particular WP:OPCOORD. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll use your suggestion. Cheers! – Ben79487 (talk contribs) 02:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Make the WikiAtlas globe optional

There should be a parameter that suppresses the WikiAtlas blue globe. In lists of many things with coordinates, like Jubek State, it is annoying clutter. On the other hand, there should be a separate template that creates a link/button to open the WikiAtlas; so that one can put that link once at the top of such a list. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 13:57, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

I have exactly the same request.
I would suggest to solve it as in / similar to de.wikipedia. There authors can choose from three icons ICON0/ICON1/ICON2 (see explanation), rendering is then e.g. like this.
Additionally, it seems inconsistent that there is a blue globe for coordinates on titan, but not on ganymede. Patagonier (talk) 14:11, 9 June 2019 (UTC)