Template:Did you know nominations/Pope Miltiades 2

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:31, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Pope Miltiades

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The icon of Pope Miltiades at the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls in Rome, Italy

... ~~that it was during the pontificate of Miltiades that the Edict of Milan, an agreement to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire, was issued by Constantine and Licinius~~? Source: "The pontificate of Miltiades coincided with the events that gave birth to the peace of the Church. After the victory of Emperor Constantine at the Millvian bridge on 28 October 312, the policy of tolerance illustrated by the edict of Milan in February 313 established new ties between the papacy and the emperor." (Levillain, Philippe, ed. (2002). The Papacy: an Encyclopedia. Vol. 2. New York, NY: Routledge. p. 993.)
- ALT1:... ~~that Pope Miltiades was the first pope to receive a letter from an emperor?~~ Source: "The letter Constantine wrote to the Pope was the first known official correspondence between an emperor and a pope." (Malveaux, Ethan (2015). The Color Line: A History. Bloomington, IN: Xlibris Corporation. p. 114. ISBN 9781503527591.)
- ALT2:... that the first pope to inhabit the Lateran Palace was Pope Miltiades? Source: "The next pope, Miltades (or Melchiades), reigned until 314. To him Constantine presented the palace of the Empress Fausta as his residence near where the Lateran basilica would soon be built". (O'Malley, John (2009). A History of the Popes: From Peter to the Present. Lanham, MD: Government Institutes. p. 31. ISBN 9781580512299.)

Improved to Good Article status by Governor Sheng (talk). Self-nominated at 06:20, 11 January 2018 (UTC).

~~On it.~~ Right off the bat, ALT1 barely meets 'interesting' threshold and isn't supported by its citation. (1st≠1st known) ALT2's capitalization was off, but that's easy to fix. [Done.] — LlywelynII 16:13, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Long enough (~5.7k elig. chars.); timely; well-sourced; minor GA issues (lead should include full title "Pope Saint"; some references include unitalicized book titles; Lateran Council miscapitalized and—according to the linked page—misnamed; no link to the Bishops of Rome under Constantine article; no hatnote to Donatists; etc.) but the GA was just approved so apparently they didn't have any problems with them; tiny bit of copyvio that could be rephrased but isn't really an issue; pic is public domain although its caption could probably be condensed to "Pope Miltiades"; no QPQ but apparently no need for one yet. The wording in ALT0 appears in Edict of Milan, where it is sourced, but that wording and source don't show up in this article at the moment (toleration≠benevolence). ALT2 has similar issues: the Lateran Palace article treats the Domus Faustae as "the" Lateran Palace but this article doesn't. It says that the Lateran Palace would be built there at some later point; there's also nothing in the article about Miltiades ever actually living there.

Thanks for the work on an important article and sorry about the trouble getting the DYK through the first time. Kindly just tighten up the phrasing or think of some new hooks, and we can get this taken care of. — LlywelynII 16:47, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Ok. So, I included the "saint" title in the lead. Regarding the unitalicized book titles, I object. All book titles are italicised, thoguh perhaps some references are using the chapter names beside the book titles, it is possible you omitted that and confused them with book titles. I have checked out this twice so I hope there's no confusion on my part. Moreover, I used templates, and if there's a mistake, it's not the one I can fix. Thirdly, are Lateran Council mentions are now capitalised. Regarding misnaming the council, again I object. The omission is in the article Lateran Council, not in the article about Pope Miltiades. All sources used refer to the Council held in 313 as Lateran Council. Having in mind there's possibility I'm making a mistake with this statement, a good compromise would be to remove any wiki link directing to the article about Lateran council(S). Fourth, I have now linked the Bishops of Rome under Constantine article. Please check if it fits fine within the article. Also, again, I have checked the link regarding the copyvio, and to me, the link shows 0.0% violation, so I guess you have already fixed that, and I thank you for it. Will try to fix other issues very soon. Thank you for your comments. --Governor Sheng (talk) 13:40, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your improvements to the article and apologies if the mistakes were with the Lateran Council article. (And thank you for going back to the sources to check up on that.)

I guess I phrased things badly, though. All of those issues are for the article itself. For DYK, nothing seems to be wrong except for the hooks. They need to be rephrased or replaced to match what the sources have. — LlywelynII 03:16, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Would this be good alternative to the current ALT 0? [ALT3:] "... that the Edict of Milan, an agreement between Constantine and Licinius to treat the Christian Church peacefully, was issued during the pontificate of Pope Miltiades (pictured)"? Can you give any suggestions to paraphrase this differently? --Governor Sheng (talk) 11:56, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

G2G w/ALT3. Yeah, exactly. "Toleration" is just more passive and less warm than "benevolence"; "...treat... peacefully" is fine. "...pontificate of Pope..." is a little redundant, but I'll leave it up to the promoter whether or not to edit that phrasing. I'd suggest removing the additional links from that hook, since it will just reduce the number of people who click through to the article you worked on, but that's up to you. Thanks again for your patience and improvements to Wikipedia. =) — LlywelynII 08:15, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Edit: Added pictured to the hook; it's a lovely image and the promoter might want to use it. Apparently Easter is on April Fools Day this year? Maybe it can be held for that? — LlywelynII 08:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for helping. Regarding the wikilinks... I don't know. I assume people might not know who Constantine and Licinius (him especially) were... The 2018 Easter is on the April Fools day :) Anyhow, you suggestions were of great help, not just for the DYK but for the whole article as well. --Governor Sheng (talk) 17:32, 14 January 2018 (UTC)