Template:Did you know nominations/Mass in D major (Dvořák)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:26, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
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Mass in D major (Dvořák)
Anna and Antonín Dvořák in 1886
... that when the Mass in D major by Antonín Dvořák was first performed in 1887 at the chapel of Schloss Lužany, his wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)?Source: [1]- Reviewed:
to come
- Reviewed:
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 12:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC).
The article was new enough and long enough at the time of the nomination. Earwig detected a match with [2] but that's only due to the quote, which is properly sourced. The hook is interesting, cited inline, and verified; the source doesn't explicitly mention that Anna was Dvorak's wife, but given that said information is already on Dvorak's article it should be fine. QPQ is still pending. As for the hook itself, it's a bit confusing: the wife being referred to here is Anna, but the hook makes it vague as to whether the wife is Dvorak's or Luzany's. I would suggest dropping Luzany from the hook given that he doesn't even have an article (and per prior DYK consensus, mentioning people without articles on hooks is discouraged unless absolutely essential to the hook) and instead just mention that it was first performed in 1887 and that the soloist in question was Dvorak's wife. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:05, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the review. I reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Cavillargues medallion. I don't know what to think of your reasoning against the hook wording. No Mr. Luzany is mentioned, just a palace, and that will have an article by the time it appears. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- The hook as currently written is vague. It isn't immediately made clear in the hook who "his wife" refers to: is it Dvorak's wife or Luzany's? I understand that the name is referring to the chapel, but a reader unfamiliar with the names could easily misinterpret the hook to think that the wife in question is Luzany's and not Dvorak's (which was the intended meaning). One possible solution would be to simply delete "at the chapel of Schloss Luzany" from the hook since the central hook fact is Dvorak's wife being one of the soloists, and the mention of the chapel is arguably superfluous in this case. If in case you want to make the hook a double hook also featuring Luzany, another option could be to change "his wife" to "Dvorak's wife" and linking to Luzany. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- How would such reader even think it's a person? We need "chapel", short for that it's a modest work, - why then not say precisely which? I promised an article for the palace. If you really think it's unclear, we could say "Dvořák's" or "the composer's", but I doubt it's unclear as there was only one man mentioned, and the pic should clarify additionally. I'd like to see the pic taken, in women's month. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:12, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- I apologize, I only just now realized that Luzany was actually the name of the palace and not a person. I imagine a person who's unfamiliar with German could make a similar mistake. In which case, I would suggest making some kind of clarification to make it clear that "Schloss Lužany" is a building and not a person (perhaps changing it its English translation of Lužany Castle), since a non-German speaking person might make the assumption that the name refers to a person and thus the wife is referring to them. Changing "Schloss Lužany" to "Lužany Castle" would also resolve the issues I had with ambiguity. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:21, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- It's not ambiguous, and Schloss is not a castle (even if many think so, and sadly many German websites translate it wrong). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:35, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0a:
... that when the Mass in D major by Antonín Dvořák was first performed in 1887 at the chapel of Schloss Lužany, the composer's wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)? - ALT0b:
... that when Dvořák's Mass in D major was first performed in 1887 at the chapel of Schloss Lužany, the composer conducted, and his wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)- When I was talking about ambiguous I was referring to the mention of the wife. In any case, if "castle" is not the right term to use then "Schloss Lužany" probably has to be changed to something else (Chateau? Manor? Palace?). For what it's worth, Google Maps in English lists the place as "Lužany Castle"; it should also be noted that the building is actually located in the Czech Republic (which as far as I know isn't a German-speaking country) and thus "Schloss Lužany" may not be the appropriate title in English anyway. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0c: ... that when the Mass in D major by Antonín Dvořák was first performed in 1887 at the chapel of a summer residence, the composer's wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)?
- ALT0d: ... that when Dvořák's Mass in D major was first performed in 1887 at a private chapel, the composer conducted, and his wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)?
- German was the main language in some regions of what is now the Czech Republic, but I'm not sure about that place. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- I think we're almost good to go with ALT0d or ALT0c, I would just suggest changing "the composer" in ALT0c to either "his wife" or "Dvořák's wife". The "The composer's wife" wording is no longer necessary since the possible confusing with the Lužany building has been resolved. As for what you said about language, even if that were the case, since the topic is Czech, it would have been more appropriate to state the Czech name of the building or the English translation than the German (and indeed, the mention in the article still needs to be changed from "Schloss Lužany" to "Lužany Castle"; given that the subject is Czech and not German and thus its common name would likely be its Czech name, I don't think the "Schloss does not mean castle" thing applies here). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0e: ... that when the Mass in D major by Antonín Dvořák was first performed in 1887 at the chapel of a summer residence, his wife was a solo singer (couple pictured)?
- I believe that d doesn't need to be changed. The Czech Republic existed from 1918, not at the composer's time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's still not proper to refer to the building as "Schloss Lužany" on the English Wikipedia; the name has to be changed to an English translation in the article. I will approve ALT0e when that is addressed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- I tried. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:52, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- I reviewed now Template:Did you know nominations/Neil Simon Theatre. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. Approving ALT0e only. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:03, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's still not proper to refer to the building as "Schloss Lužany" on the English Wikipedia; the name has to be changed to an English translation in the article. I will approve ALT0e when that is addressed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think we're almost good to go with ALT0d or ALT0c, I would just suggest changing "the composer" in ALT0c to either "his wife" or "Dvořák's wife". The "The composer's wife" wording is no longer necessary since the possible confusing with the Lužany building has been resolved. As for what you said about language, even if that were the case, since the topic is Czech, it would have been more appropriate to state the Czech name of the building or the English translation than the German (and indeed, the mention in the article still needs to be changed from "Schloss Lužany" to "Lužany Castle"; given that the subject is Czech and not German and thus its common name would likely be its Czech name, I don't think the "Schloss does not mean castle" thing applies here). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- When I was talking about ambiguous I was referring to the mention of the wife. In any case, if "castle" is not the right term to use then "Schloss Lužany" probably has to be changed to something else (Chateau? Manor? Palace?). For what it's worth, Google Maps in English lists the place as "Lužany Castle"; it should also be noted that the building is actually located in the Czech Republic (which as far as I know isn't a German-speaking country) and thus "Schloss Lužany" may not be the appropriate title in English anyway. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- I apologize, I only just now realized that Luzany was actually the name of the palace and not a person. I imagine a person who's unfamiliar with German could make a similar mistake. In which case, I would suggest making some kind of clarification to make it clear that "Schloss Lužany" is a building and not a person (perhaps changing it its English translation of Lužany Castle), since a non-German speaking person might make the assumption that the name refers to a person and thus the wife is referring to them. Changing "Schloss Lužany" to "Lužany Castle" would also resolve the issues I had with ambiguity. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:21, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- How would such reader even think it's a person? We need "chapel", short for that it's a modest work, - why then not say precisely which? I promised an article for the palace. If you really think it's unclear, we could say "Dvořák's" or "the composer's", but I doubt it's unclear as there was only one man mentioned, and the pic should clarify additionally. I'd like to see the pic taken, in women's month. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:12, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- The hook as currently written is vague. It isn't immediately made clear in the hook who "his wife" refers to: is it Dvorak's wife or Luzany's? I understand that the name is referring to the chapel, but a reader unfamiliar with the names could easily misinterpret the hook to think that the wife in question is Luzany's and not Dvorak's (which was the intended meaning). One possible solution would be to simply delete "at the chapel of Schloss Luzany" from the hook since the central hook fact is Dvorak's wife being one of the soloists, and the mention of the chapel is arguably superfluous in this case. If in case you want to make the hook a double hook also featuring Luzany, another option could be to change "his wife" to "Dvorak's wife" and linking to Luzany. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
ALT0e to T:DYK/P6 without image