- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 22:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Djed
edit
- ... that Ptah was often shown carrying a scepter which was a combination of the djed symbol (seal with djed hieroglyph pictured) and the ankh, the symbol of life?
- Reviewed: HMS Havelock (H88)
Created/expanded by Regstuff (talk). Self nom at 05:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Severe copyvio from Life and death in ancient Egypt by Sigrid Hodel-Hoenes (2000) This is the portion of the text that lacks citations. Search books.google for: "Beneath the large slab of the base are two tall offering stands - one bears a libation vessel, while flowers have been laid on the other. To the right is the king himself, presenting a generously laid table. Fowl, cucumbers, blossoms, breads, and heads and ribs of beef are all lying on the upper mat, while a cow and an antelope can be seen on the lower one. Beneath these mats are four tall vessels containing unguents and oil, with bundles of lettuce sticking out among them." to get an identical match. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
- Please look at the paragraph again. I have clearly stated that, "The scene is described by Sigrid Hodel-Hoenes," and then opened a quotation mark for that particular paragraph. I have made it obvious that this is a quotation from that person describing the scene. I have not quoted this particular paragraph because the next paragraph and the one after that also use material from the same book (though they have been rewritten in my words) so I thought the purpose of citation is served by just placing the cite at the end of the third paragraph. The reason I have not rewritten the part you refer to and have kept it in the author's own words (clearly stating that this is the case) is because I have not personally seen the relief he is describing so I thought it best to use his words. The next two paragraphs I did rewrite because I thought it would look odd just quoting three paragraphs straight off the book as opposed to quoting just one paragraph. If you feel that even such a clearly stated paraphrasing is not ok please let me know and I will reword it (though I don't agree since like I said, I haven't seen the relief).Regstuff (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
- Quotations need to be clearly identified to source and cited. It is not obvious to a casual reader at all that these are quotations; they are massive and make up a large chunk of the article. Please use one of the quotations templates to set them off from the text, and please add a citation note to the end (even though that may seem redundant).
- Please look at the paragraph again. I have clearly stated that, "The scene is described by Sigrid Hodel-Hoenes," and then opened a quotation mark for that particular paragraph. I have made it obvious that this is a quotation from that person describing the scene. I have not quoted this particular paragraph because the next paragraph and the one after that also use material from the same book (though they have been rewritten in my words) so I thought the purpose of citation is served by just placing the cite at the end of the third paragraph. The reason I have not rewritten the part you refer to and have kept it in the author's own words (clearly stating that this is the case) is because I have not personally seen the relief he is describing so I thought it best to use his words. The next two paragraphs I did rewrite because I thought it would look odd just quoting three paragraphs straight off the book as opposed to quoting just one paragraph. If you feel that even such a clearly stated paraphrasing is not ok please let me know and I will reword it (though I don't agree since like I said, I haven't seen the relief).Regstuff (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
- Note also that the majority of expansion to the article consists of the massive quotations added, which are not original text, and therefore not suitable for counting as additional article length. This means the article has not been expanded sufficiently to meet the 5x-expansion requirement. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
The quotation is now properly identified, and the 5x expansion checks out for me. However, I see two concerns that I hope can be resolved:
- The first two paragraphs of "Ceremonial usage" are unsourced. I checked the book page that contains the long quotation to see if it could be cited, but I find that it does not support the content of these paragraphs. Sources are needed for those paragraphs.
- The first sentence of the long quotation ("This act can also be understood as representing Osiris's triumph over Seth") does not fit with the remainder of the quotation. This sentence appears to me to be a suitable reference for supporting part of the first paragraph of "Ceremonial usage," but it isn't sufficient by itself to support very much. --Orlady (talk) 22:40, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
