- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 08:50, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
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A. O. Granger
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that amateur astronomer A. O. Granger once possessed the world's largest telescope? Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/69378029/a-o-granger-1914/- Reviewed: Leo Hussain and Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt
- Comment: I volunteer two QPQ credits for one nomination, to help reduce the backlog of nominations without reviews.
Created by Flibirigit (talk). Self-nominated at 02:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC).
- Just a quick point. I am doubtful on the claim that the Granger telescope was the largest in the world at any time. See for example the Leviathan of Parsonstown (largest in the world 1845-1917) which had a 72" aperture. This museum article states that the Granger telescope had a 9" aperture and includes the same story of ownership by a circus before being acquired by the University of Texas. The observatory shown in the article's image could never have housed anything as big as the leviathan, surely? - Dumelow (talk) 19:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- I am no expert on telescopes. I can only use what is in the sources. Flibirigit (talk) 21:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Flibirigit, that is in one source but is contradicted in another. A mention of the telescope in an obituary in a local paper is not much of a RS for the hook, and Dumelow has a strong case that the paper got it wrong. I don’t see how we can say something on the Main Page that is almost certainly wrong. The better source in the article says the telescope was the largest in the southeastern United States, that would be a possible hook. Moonraker (talk) 04:34, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I am no expert on telescopes. I can only use what is in the sources. Flibirigit (talk) 21:06, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Just a quick point. I am doubtful on the claim that the Granger telescope was the largest in the world at any time. See for example the Leviathan of Parsonstown (largest in the world 1845-1917) which had a 72" aperture. This museum article states that the Granger telescope had a 9" aperture and includes the same story of ownership by a circus before being acquired by the University of Texas. The observatory shown in the article's image could never have housed anything as big as the leviathan, surely? - Dumelow (talk) 19:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: New enough, long enough, checked no copyvio. But I also have doubts about the hook - perhaps you could suggest one about it being the largest in the southeastern United States and then being sold to a travelling circus, or about the inkstand? Chidgk1 (talk) 06:25, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I have struck ALT0 due to the doubts raised above. I will work on the article and propose other hooks. I am busy in life and this will take several days. Thank you for patience. Please do not ping me on this nomination. I will see changes on my watchlist. Flibirigit (talk) 12:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I should have time to work on this tomorrow. Sorry, I am busy today. Flibirigit (talk) 16:01, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
New hooks proposed below. Flibirigit (talk) 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Granger's home, "Overlook"
- ALT1 ... that amateur astronomer A. O. Granger lived in a home (pictured) which included the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States? Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger
- ALT2 ... that the home (pictured) of amateur astronomer A. O. Granger included the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States? Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger
- Sorry although the house is interesting I doubt the pic is going to look good when small. How about adding the travelling circus to a hook about the telescope? Chidgk1 (talk) 05:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I have no interest in a hook about a traveling circus since it offers no insight into Granger while he was alive. I also have nothing hooky to say about an inkstand. The ALTS above are not required to have the suggested photo. I have proposed the same hooks below without (pictured), along with a new hook. Flibirigit (talk) 13:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry although the house is interesting I doubt the pic is going to look good when small. How about adding the travelling circus to a hook about the telescope? Chidgk1 (talk) 05:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that amateur astronomer A. O. Granger lived in a home which included the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States? Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger
- ALT4 ... that the home of amateur astronomer A. O. Granger included the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States? Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger
- ALT5 ... that amateur astronomer A. O. Granger expanded his home to include the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States? Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger
- Well I am not an expert on images but I understand there is a lot of competition so not all suggested DYK picture hooks get the picture in. So let's suggest the pic and let someone later in the process decide if it is good enough quality or not. To make the hook more interesting in case the pic is omitted how about including the name of the house and also give some idea of the times and his profession - for example:
- ALT6
... that 19th-century millionaire businessman A. O. Granger put the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States on top of his house, Overlook (pictured)?Source: https://evhsonline.org/arthur-otis-granger Chidgk1 (talk) 06:31, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
I request a new review for ALTs 1 to 5. I dislike ALT6 because of its wordiness, and the subjective meanings of "put" and "on top". Flibirigit (talk) 12:10, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- I guess you mean a new reviewer - that is a good idea as although I am happy with the article it does not look like we are going to agree on a hook. Another hook possibility would be to include both the hill purchase story and the house and telescope. Re pic I am not an expert but maybe the sky is overexposed and rest underexposed? It might be worth you asking Etowah Valley Historical Society if they could do a better scan of the original (or better print if they have the negative) and/or if Wikipedia graphics workshop could improve it. Chidgk1 (talk) 13:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
This is a very well-written and interesting biographical article which passes all the main DYK criteria as noted above, with a generous 2 QPQs completed. I think hooks ALT1, ALT2, ALT3, ALT4, ALT5 are good to go – they all address the concern pointed out by previous commenters by qualifying the "largest observatory and telescope" claim, narrowing it to the southeastern United States per the cited source, the Etowah Valley Historical Society. Since multiple sources are preferable for "largest"-type claims, I added one more source to the article, the 1908 Atlanta Constitution piece reporting that at the time, it was "the largest and finest observatory in the southern states, and perhaps the largest telescope to be found in a private residence in the United States", which most likely informed the historical society claim, which is slightly more conservative. (There are various ways you could further notate this within the article, either in a Notes section or by embedding quotes within individual footnotes, but these are refinements which I leave up to the article creator.) I have struck ALT6 so there is no confusion, although if we wanted to pursue a hook along those lines, I would have suggested a further revision like: "... that 19th-century millionaire A. O. Granger installed the largest observatory and telescope in the southeastern United States in his home, Overlook (pictured)?" But the other hooks are fine and it's up to the promoter to decide whether or not to use the image. Cielquiparle (talk) 19:23, 8 August 2022 (UTC)