Talk:Zionism as settler colonialism

Latest comment: 21 days ago by Lewisguile in topic Credibility of sources

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

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In the third paragraph “does not does not” should be edited to “does not”. Telecart (talk) 05:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Done Cannolis (talk) 05:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 November 2024

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Critics of the characterization of Zionism as settler colonialism,
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Critics of the characterization of Zionism as settler colonialism, such as [[Benny Morris]], [[Yuval Shany]] and [[S. Ilan Troen |Ilan Troen]],

Zlmark (talk) 20:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: this is not an uncontroversial edit request. Please see WP:EDITXY for more info. M.Bitton (talk) 21:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2024

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Isma'il al Faruqi in his book Islam and the Problem of Israel argued extensively for this position. Can we include him? DuriSenyum (talk) 11:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Not done... it is not clear what changes you want made. Please format your request as "change X to Y" and provide any necessary reliable sources for us to cite. - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:11, 1 December 2024 (UTC)Reply
Please add Ismail al-Faruqi to the list of proponents in the first paragraph. The revised text should read:
Proponents of the paradigm of Zionism as settler colonialism include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappé, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, Rosemary Sayigh, Amal Jamal, and Ismail Raji al-Faruqi. Al-Faruqi described Zionism as a project aimed at "empty[ing] Palestine of its native inhabitants and to occupy their lands, farms, homes, and all movable properties," further characterizing it as "naked robbery by force of arms; of wanton, indiscriminate slaughter of men, women, and children; [and] of destruction of men's lives and properties." (Islam and the Problem of Israel, p. 93).
Exact quote:
"Its plan was to empty Palestine of its native inhabitants and to occupy their lands, farms, homes, and all movable properties. Zionism was guilty of naked robbery by force of arms; of wanton, indiscriminate slaughter of men, women, and children; of destruction of men's lives and properties." (Islam and the Problem of Israel, p. 93).
Reliable source:
Ismail Raji al-Faruqi. Islam and the Problem of Israel. First published in 1980. Kuala Lumpur: The Other Press, 2003. ISBN 983954134X.
DuriSenyum (talk) 20:44, 1 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Lots of duplication?

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So, not only do we have sections called "Proponents" and "Response" (previously "Criticism"), we also have "Discourse" and "Historiography". "Background" also seems to include material which overlaps with these sections. Is there any fruitful way of merging these to remove redundancies, or do we need to keep them separate? Lewisguile (talk) 12:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've now combined these sections to make it easier to parse the main pros and cons. I've carved off the explanation of settler colonialism into a Concepts section (we might want to add concepts such as "met
I don't think I've deleted anything in the process (except for repetitions), but let me know if I've missed anything. Lewisguile (talk) 11:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

WP:UNDUE/Cohen op-ed

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In "Background" there are quotes by Roger Cohen and Yuval Shany which come from an NYT op-ed. The op-ed should probably be replaced with some direct quotes from Shany, and we should either establish notability of Cohen's op-ed or find something that replace that too (he quotes multiple scholars in the article, so it should be easy enough to consult them directly). Anyone have any strong opinions on which sources to use here? Lewisguile (talk) 12:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Credibility of sources

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Some of the people quoted in the later sections of this article do not appear to have any specific expertise relating to the question of whether Zionism is settler-colonial. For example, Roger Cohen is a journalist, not a scholar, and he's quoted expressing a clear personal opinion. ElasticSnake (talk) 07:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I do agree there. I left Cohen when I edited that section but I do think his inclusion is probably WP:UNDUE. Lewisguile (talk) 07:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)Reply
I've corrected the attribution of the "category error" remark from Roger Cohen to international law professor Yuval Shany. Roger Cohen was the author of the NYT article that quoted Shany, not the source of the remark. (This is no longer important, but given the extensive qualifications of Roger Cohen listed in his Wikipedia article, I think he would have been an acceptable source, given appropriate attribution (viz. WP:RSEDITORIAL). That having been said, a scholarly source for the "category error" claim might have been preferable.) Dotyoyo (talk) 00:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)Reply
Well spotted! Lewisguile (talk) 07:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)Reply