Talk:Zinedine Zidane/Archive 4

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Unsourced Comment

I just noticed that in the 1998 World Cup section, is states that headers are "(Zidane's biggest weakness)". I just wanted to know if this was POV or actually had a source, such as a quote from Zidane himself saying he's not so great at them. I just didn't think it belonged without a source. T.z0n3 18:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Style of play

Great footballers all tend to be remembered by their style of play. Zidane is no exeption. With his classic spin and "gyro-moves" he left defenders where they shouldn´t have been.His almost scary ability to keep the ball at his feet even though surrounded by 2-3 players was also as strong caractaristic feature.Passing was top notch, often giving away a sure goal to another teammate´s favor. His ability to create something from nothing is maybe what I like most about him.Great player.

I think the article should include his style of play on the pitch.--

Arabic Berber transliteration

I archived the discussions on his name so we could start over again but this time no long political rants and posts, no threats to disrupt Wikipedia, and lastly and most importantly no name calling.

Also remember to sign your name using four tildes, and please acknowledge that horizontal lines are unnecessary and annoying, use colons instead to seperate/distinguish your posts as shown below. --Inahet 19:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Colons are better than lines. --Inahet 19:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

2 cents. I think an Arabic version of his name should be there; Zidane may be a Kabyle, but his name is Arabic. However, a transliteration from the Arabic is taking it one step to far: the only legitimate version of his name in Latin script is simply "Zinedine Zidane". David Sneek 08:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

This is going to get really exhausting real quick, but I think we can avoid, or at least streamline, as was said, the “long, political rants” of before by eschewing political arguments altogether, and focusing on the linguistic merits. Or at least under this heading, OK?

The question I would like answered is: If M. Zidane wasn’t born and doesn’t live in an Arabic-speaking country, and himself does not speak Arabic, what is the argument for the Arabic rendition of his name? Wiki Wikardo 18:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The argument for the Arabic rendition is that it's an Arabic name. If I remember it correctly, "Zinedine" is Arabic for "ornament of faith", and "Yazid" means "he grows". David Sneek 18:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, so then logically you’re arguing that everybody who has the name David should have the Hebrew rendering of their name, as David is a Hebrew name, yes? (Or, OK, wherever it’s from; Aramaic, or whatever.) When are you adding the Arabic script to Kareem Abdul Jabbar? (Or for that matter, Abdul-Karim al-Jabbar.) Should Pat Riley’s entry have a parenthetical Pádraic Raghaile? Wiki Wikardo 20:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

David is not an Aramaic name. It may have Aramaic origins, but that is hardly the same thing. The Pat Riley example makes even less sense to me; nobody is proposing to turn this article into the entry for an etymological dictionary, we're only discussing a possible transliteration. Zidane's parents are immigrants from a country where Arabic is the dominant language, he holds double nationality, and has a first name with a very specific meaning in Arabic - I don't see what is so problematic about us giving that name in Arabic. (I wouldn't object to an Arabic transliteration in the Kareem Abdul Jabbar article either, by the way. He chose the name for its meaning in that language.) David Sneek 09:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

You don’t see what’s so problematic??? That’s because you’ve been brainwashed by ARABIST PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!1 وكي وكاردو fini. 01:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S.: That said, I don't think it is necessary to put a transliteration in the first sentence. A discussion of the origin of his name might also be placed, for example, next to the trivia section - where the transliteration will be viewed less as a political statement. "Though Zidane is of Kabyle origin, his name is Arabic... etc." David Sneek 09:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, I am flabbergasted by the insistance of some arabists. We might as well transliterate every single name and give its etymology. I can only assume arabist politics is behind it as explained by previous contributors. On the French WIKI, I found this ,'Concernant l'origine du nom Zidane, il n'y a aucun doute sur son origine berbère. azidane = adjectif qualificatif signifiant doux, sucré, succulent. la racine de ce nom est incontestablement berbère. Voir tous les dictionnaires et notamment les dictionnaires Kabyle -Français (DALLET) et Touareg - Français (FOUCAULT):cf.racine ZDN.' It tallies with my own research. Do we use the BERBER (tifinagh) script, too? Come on, cut this arab script non-sense ! Britonia 14:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe previous versions of this article offered both an Arabic and a Tifinagh version of his name. That seemed fine to me, though it did clutter up the first paragraph. (Like I said above, if we include more details about his name, those would be better placed lower on the page.) David Sneek 15:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

(See also the Italian wikipedia. David Sneek 15:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC))

Britonia, try to remain civil, that is assume good faith and don't attack anyone. Also remember Wikipedia isn't a soapbox --Inahet 15:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the best solution is to write the name in the 3 languages of his home country: Arabic, Tifinagh and French (i.e. latin script) and cut the transliterations all together.

His home country is France.

Arabic: زين الدين يزيد زيدان, is the Arabic part.

Zidane's father is named Ismail (إسماعيل) (which is the Arabic for Ishmael), http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Ishmael Smail is the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian & some of Libyan & some of Mauritanian way of pronouncing it. It is also pronounced Smail by Arabian Gulf bedouin tribes.

His mother is named Malika (مللك) which is Arabic for Queen, Malik is the male versian meaning King. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Malika

One of his brothers who is coach of a team is named Farid (فريد) which is Arabic for "Unique". http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Farid Mazighe 08:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Man, I had it with this infantile topic. I wish Zidane had been born on some fucking remote island no one has ever heard of, because some people are obviously obsessive-compulsive about squeezing their cheesy ethnic pride into everything. How about contributing to the article instead? Zakaria5000 18:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Word the fuck up. —Wiki Wikardo

What the hell is going on? I'm gone for one day, and all hell broke loose? Wiki Wikardo, your comments are abusive and counterproductive. Zakaria, there is no need to swear and no need to be rude. This is meant to be a civil discussion, if you find comments offensive, just ignore them! Screwing up the talk page even more doesn't help! --Inahet 19:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

That's probably what you all needed, hopefully it will help stop this discussion. In the end, 99.9% of the people don't visit Zidane's page to see if there are Arabic characters on it or not. Man, you people are too intelliigent to waste your time in this bullshit. I wish I was half that smart so I can make better contributions. - ChaChaFut 02:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Those of us that wish the Arabic script to stay wish that cursing and the such be not permitted in this discussion board. The editor should remove the swearing/cursing posted by others on this board. This topic should carry civil behavior. Some are for the Arabic script some are not. It is not the end of the world if it was removed nor is it the end of Berber civiliztion if Arabic script was available. We must be civil and not exaggerate. Thanks for putting the Arabic script back. Oh, and I am still waiting for Sadiq to put Zidane's name in Tifinagh, that is at least one good contribution he could do. Note: For those of you who don't know what Tifinagh is, it is the Ancient Berber script for writting. The word Tifinagh is a feminine plural noun whose singular in Tamashek/Tafineqq; it means 'the Phoenician (letters)'. Tifinagh is derived from Phonecian. What is Phonecian? Phoenician is a Semitic language of the Canaanite subgroup, closely related to Hebrew and Aramaic. Being Semitic it is in turn related to Arabic. Mazighe 08:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here it comes again, it's like nauseas, you think it's gone but it's not, I'll try to be calm this time, and ask why Ataturk's name not scripted in arabic? I'm a nice person in real life, so I'm giving you his name in arabic script: مصطفى كمال (Mustafa Kemal), here's his page: Mustafa_Kemal. It's easy, you just click on the link, you copy and paste, and that's done!!

I have also nominated another article, that of Ismail Khaldi, he is an israeli arab, I'd like his name to be scripted in hebrew : (Ishmael) יִשְׁמָעֵאל , the same thing you just need to copy and paste his name, Also "Ismail" means nothing in arabic and is of Hebrew origin, and since Ismail khaldi lives in a country where hebrew is the language of the majority, it would be appropriate to give to cesar what belongs to cesar.

I've got a lot of other surprises, believe me, it's a lot of fun ya banou hilal! like putting hebrew script in every personality with a hebrew firstname (Ibrahim, Ismail, meriem, John...etc.) --Toira 17:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Should we start to consider separating the section on the headbutt?

Given it seems highly probable the headbutt incident will remain a controversial and large topic that we need to discuss in detail, should we start to consider spinning it off into a seperate article? This is the common practice when a section gets too large and becomes disproportianate from the whole article leading to inbalance. To be fair, perhaps the headbutt section deserves to be as large as it is now given that it is clearly a very significant part of Zidane's career but IMHO, it's fairly likely that the headbutt incident is going larger then it's relevance to Zidane and therefore deserving/needing its own article. N.B. This doesn't mean we don't discuss the headbutt under Zidane, instead, we summarise the info as appropriate and link to the main article. Nil Einne 18:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

• Maybe it should have its own article. Until or if these characters own up to what was said, it will continue to be debated and discussed until the next World Cup tournament. Zidane's apparent unwillingness to explain his actions are about as offensive as the action itself, as it shows his contempt for the public which paid him big bucks to try to win football games. But the Prima Donna athlete is not exactly a recent phenomenon. Wahkeenah 18:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. I was going to do it myself. As you have suggested it, please go ahead and create the new article. Thanks. Wallie 18:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I think there should be a seperate article for it as well. It is taking up way too much space in this one.--Sagacious 17:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

As it currently stands, the section within this article is way more detailed, more updated, and better than The Zidane headbutt (which has the definite article in the title, wtf). All that article does, really, is mention that it was a ginormous meme + uploaded on YouTube and passed around the internets. Should I just merge “The Zidane headbutt internet meme” here, or should we take info from this article to flesh out the headbutt?
Also, the Zidane headbutt article is really crappy. Wiki Wikardo 11:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The portion of this article dedicated to the headbutt is too long. People aren't going to be talking much about it in years to come. Either delete much of that article or create a new article dedicated soley to the headbutt.

I also found it too long and brought it down to reasonable length. The head-butt (including aftermath) now takes up half of the 2006 World Cup section and roughly 1/6 of the whole article. Should be ok. I strongly disagree with the proposal of having an extra head-butt article. There is Zidane headbutt already, but I suggest that we include only pop-cultural references in there (the whole internet meme thing, videos, animations, edits, parodies, games, songs etc.), and not content which might be of interest in the context of Zidane's biography. Zakaria5000 18:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I second your disagreement. It's a big deal in his career. He will be infamous for it. It's MUCH shorter than the section in Tyson's wiki page on the Holyfield incident. It warrants inclusion. It has been summarized concisely. If you want to re-balance the article, add other things about his career, but acknowledge that this is a major event (seeing as it was his LAST MATCH), and that it needs to be detailed. Do you really think people are coming to Zidane's page right now to read about his 2002 world cup appearance? No. They're interested in an encyclopedia's take on the headbutt. Who are you to decide whether people will talk about it or not? Dead men's bells 08:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Coupe de Boule

French Song hit, #1 on the Pop Charts making light of the Zidane head-butt (clearly in Zidane's favor). Title: Coupe de Boule. To watch video press http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWAJhUNj8Xg&search=coup%20de%20boule

Etienne Marcel's Translation of "Coup de Boule" lyrics:

Watch out, it's the headbutt dance! (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the right (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the left (Headbutt, headbutt)

Go Blues! Go, Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!)* 4x

The guido, he was hurt Zidane hit [him] The Italian's not doing well Zidane slapped [him] The ref saw it on the TV Zidane hit [him] But we lost the World Cup We had a good laugh anyways

Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!) 4x

Trezeguet didn't play When he played he sucked He screwed up everything We lost the World Cup Barthez didn't stop anything And it's not even complicated The sponsers are all angry But Chirac was eloquent

Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (Headbutt!) 4x

Watch out, it's the headbutt dance! (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the right (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the left (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the front (Headbutt, headbutt) Headbutt to the back (Headbutt, headbutt)

And now it's the penalty Attention please, he's gonna shoot One, two, three...he missed!

Zidane, he hit [him], Zidane, he slapped [him] (4x)

We had a good laugh anyways Zidane and Trezeguet We lost the World Cup Zidane and Trezeguet (2x)

And Trezeguet...and Trezeguet...and Trezeguet-guet-guet Trezeguet (Headbutt, headbutt) and Trezeguet (Headbutt, headbutt) and Trezeguet (Headbutt, headbutt) and Trezeguet (Headbutt, headbutt)

The information about this song should be worked into this page about Zidane. It is pertanent information.

Please include information regarding the song in Zidane headbutt – it is clearly part of the (questionable) hype. Zakaria5000 14:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Vote on inclusion of Arabic transliteration of Zinedine's name

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was [no consensus] see Proposal for compromise --Inahet 03:43, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I think we should have a vote (maybe this will stop the edit war...maybe?). For those supporting adding an Arabic transliteration vote support and those who oppose, needless to say, vote oppose, please include your reason/s (poll will end on Aug 19 4:00 UTC):

• Oppose since he was born in France and Arabic is not his mother tongue. --Inahet 03:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Support as long as the Arabic information is correct. Since the Arabic information is not incorrect and help one understand the meaning of his name. Zindine Yazid Zidane is an unusual name and is clarified by the Arabic for any well wishing researcher. As long as some wish it & the information is correct it should remain. by Mazighe 00:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Please provide sources, not opinions, that will allow me (who doesn't follow soccer) to make an informed decision in this vote. Thanks, BalthCat 20:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• Ok, you can read up on the topic here http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Zinedine_Zidane/Archive_1#Zinedine_Yazid_Zidane.2C_His_Name wait a moment after pressing for it to send you to the appropriate paragraph on that page. by Mazighe 00:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately that has no links that directly refer to the person. The origin of his name is not really the issue. If some one is named Strombolopoulous it doesn't mean he gets his name translated into greek just because his parents were from Greece. - BalthCat 23:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support - Officially he got an Algerian passport w/ both Arabic and French name. -- Szvest 12:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• This might be what we need. Except... would all Algerian passports have both French and Arabic? Can you, or anyone else, provide a link? - BalthCat 23:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is the link to the application form. I wish i had a pic of the inside of the passport but i get this link from unhcr.org in (in French) which states that La carte d’identité algérienne est établie exclusivement en langue arabe, alors que les rubriques du passeport sont imprimées en langue arabe, anglaise et française. Le passeport algérien, de couleur verte, compte 28 pages et est valable 5 ans. You can translate it. -- Szvest 00:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

How do you know I can translate it? :P (I can...) That shows that in order for him to claim an Algerian passport it would HAVE to be in Arabic, so that doesn't say much at all to show we should show the Arabic form. So we don't even need a link proving his passport is in Arabic, because it doesn't really tell us anything as I see it. I can't even find evidence myself that he speaks Arabic, for that matter... - BalthCat 00:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Use this link for a translation. The argument is that in order to play for the Algerian team you got to have an Algerian passport. Read early career in the article. He definitely doesn't speak Arabic at all, let alone the third generation of Arab immigrants. -- Szvest 13:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Bravo, well done Szvest. I'm for putting the Arabic in but logically ask how do we know Zidane has an Algerian Passport? --by BB--

As you read in the article, Zidane has a dual-citizenship. Having an Algerian passport is conditional to having an Algerian citizenship (as it is the case all over the world). This is what the Algerian legislation says CHAPITRE II - DE LA NATIONALITE D'ORIGINE - Article 6. See also unhchr.ch for further details. -- Szvest 13:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone provide a citation from a reliable source that addresses his current citizenship status? The article's claim that he currently has dual citizenship appears to be unsourced. --Muchness 20:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose - Seems gratuitous for someone who is not even Arabic.--DaveOinSF 08:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but both the first name and the surname are Arabic (see Deen (Arabic term)) and not of Berber origins. Do you want us to write it in Chinese?. -- Szvest 13:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The article is about him, not about his name. My name is of Hebrew origin, but I'm not Jewish. If I were famous enough to have a Wikipedia article, it would be just as inappropriate for that article to have a Hebrew transcription as it would to have a Chinese transcription.--DaveOinSF 20:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support - I always vote to include information. Why strike information from articles. Even if purely for QI value, there is no harm in it being there. Philc _T^E_C^I 12:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - per Inahet. -- Arwel (talk) 13:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support- Same reasons as Svest plus he probably speaks Algerian Arabic as well as Kabyle. -- unsigned vote by Burgas00
• Oppose - Per Szvest's information about Zidane... while he is of Algerian descent, he does not speak Arabic, therefore his name does not need to be in Arabic. He couldn't read it if he tried. - BalthCat 21:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - He is a French born French citizen of non-Arab origin.--Greasysteve13 08:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Apparently this has become a huge issue... Check this out :D http://www.kabyle.com/spip.php?breve1259 --Burgas00 13:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. (changed my vote, see below for proposal of compromise) Litmus test for this issue: Is Arabic the official language of his native country (France—citizenship is irrelevant)? No. Is Zidane an Arab? No. Is Arabic the native language of the Kabyle people? No. Does his name have any meaning in Arabic? Yes. This (and only this) is why I support it, and the meaning should be mentioned. I find it desirable to have a valid Tifinagh transcription there, as well (see third question). Zakaria5000 00:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"The article is about him, not about his name. My name is of Hebrew origin, but I'm not Jewish. If I were famous enough to have a Wikipedia article, it would be just as inappropriate for that article to have a Hebrew transcription as it would to have a Chinese transcription." to quote DaveOinSF. --Greasysteve13 06:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support per Szvest. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposal for compromise (resolution)

Take a look at the Trivia section, I hope everyone is happy now and the edit war can come to an end. If you edit, please be careful with the parentheses (([])) and not (([]). I stopped counting how many times I have corrected this in the intro. Zakaria5000 12:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposal for compromise (discussion)

After thinking about it again, I see arguments against the inclusion at the top, but for an inclusion in the Trivia section. Without the necessary prose, it is misleading and unjustified to have the transliteration in the intro. But the meaning of his names is still an interesting bit of information. Maybe this is something we can all agree on. One might argue that his names were given to him without regards to the meaning and only because they sound nice together (which is likely and would make the argument invalid), but this only complicates things. So, my proposal is a nicely commented inclusion in the Trivia section. I oppose an uncommented inclusion in the intro section. Zakaria5000 13:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds very reasonable. - BalthCat 16:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds very reasonable II. -- Szvest 17:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

Sounds very reasonable III. --Inahet 20:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds very reasonable IV. --Don't really give a damn but this might be a way to be done with this topic (with the poll the debate would continue regardless of the outcome :). And do the same with other similar cases. --ChaChaFut 23:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

At least it will provide guidance for people who want to control the random edits by visitors with opinions/agendas to push? Maybe? :) - BalthCat 23:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds a bit funny to me. :-D PS. Why not leave, as is? by Mazighe

Because it is misleading (given his ethnicity) and unjustified (given his place of birth). Zakaria5000 22:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, "as is" is not solid... The status quo is edit warring. If you check the history you will see that people continuously remove the Arabic from the article. I myself only revert those edits because when the discussion started, it was in the article (I believe) and this discussion is not yet resolved, so removing it is inappropriate. (Though it, thankfully, appears it will soon be resolved at least to some extent.) - BalthCat 23:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I support this.--DaveOinSF 23:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok then, since "as is" won't cut it, then I also support this new idea. But! There are many false explinations of his name by the media, I only support this idea if you go with the exact meaning of his name. It is all explained here http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Zinedine_Zidane/Archive_1#Zinedine_Yazid_Zidane.2C_His_Name Mazighe

Do you mean something like this as a footnote?

Zinedine Yazid Zidane (IPA: [ˌzineˈdin jaziːd ziˈdan]

His first name is a good example of a complex Arabic name with more then one part: (Zayn = beauty [1]) - (adeen = the path/way [2]) - (Zaynadeen means (the) Beautiful (one) of the Path. It is a descriptive name not meaning "beautiful path" rather the beautiful one of the path). - (Yazeed = one who increases) - (Zaydan = overabundant twice (not twice overabundant)) - (The name Zaydan is the same as the name Zayd except the "an" ending means "two".) - (Zayd = overabundant. Zaydan is emphasizing the overabundance of something that they possess, such as for example talent. One may say they possess an overabundance of talent. But with the word Zaydan, it is like saying overabundant twice of, for example, talent.)

-- Szvest 09:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

No, that's too long for a footnote. This isn't Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. It could be in a ==Trivia== section, but save the footnotes for references. - BalthCat 01:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree w/ Mazighe below. Have a look at Che Guevara, Hezbollah, Einstein, etc... It doesn't matter if it is long. That's why we use footnotes. -- Szvest 15:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

• • I propose a better idea. Instead of his name being explained in a trivia section why not have a button that sends one to a page explaining his names meaning. Like where "disambiguous" at the top have a button entitled "for a translation of Zidane's name". That would circumvent any disputes and allow for a more detailed explanation of a complex name and an interesting example of an Arabic name. The button could connect to the page http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Arabic_name where Zidane’s name would be an example. by Mazighe

Use footnotes instead. See my comment above yours. -- Szvest 15:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I support this idea. Of course it makes sense to keep the meaning of his name in the article, but I definitely think it would clutter things too much to put it in the opener. If people don't like a "Trivia" section, I think it's also acceptable to have a section (near the bottom) entitled "Meaning and derivation of Zidane's name", although I'd go with "Trivia" myself. Szvest's footnote is a good one. -- Deville (Talk) 17:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Fine but shouldn't we also do this to Marco Materazzi?--Greasysteve13 03:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

No, because there is nothing unique or interesting about the name Marco Matterazi. On the otherhand, how many Frenchmen have the name Zinedine or Zidane? Zinedine's name sounds exotic; and I'm sure many people are curious as to where it is from, so I think it is worth mentioning the origin and the meaning. It is not just this article that provides a description on the name, see Queen Latifa, Aaliyah, and Suri Cruise. --Inahet

Those are good examples. But what does "Marco Matterazi" mean? This is what I'd like to know.--Greasysteve13 09:26, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Marcus in latin was related to Mars, it means warrior. Matterazzo means matter or material.--Josh Rocchio 05:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think I understand the point you're making, I think... So I ask what part of the compromise are you not against? --Inahet 16:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I am okay with the Zinedine Zidane footnote. But I just thought it was funny because there are lots of other names we are unfamiliar with the roots and meaning of but are disregarded because as you say, "there is nothing unique or interesting about the name Marco Matterazi". Maybe if Marco Matterazi was a French footballer his name would be unique or interesting. But it doesn't matter.--Greasysteve13 05:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

At the beginning of 2003, 1,064 Frenchmen were named Zinedine. Another famous Zinedine is the French actor Zinedine Soualem. As for Zidane, it is the first name of 271 people in France. As a last name, I haven't found statistics yet. Metropolitan 21:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

When I asked "how many Frenchmen have the name Zinedine or Zidane" I was being rhetorical. But thanks for the answer anyway. How did you find the statistics anyway? --Inahet 16:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Loool! Metropolitan deserves a barnstar for that!!!. -- Szvest 16:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Deserved Metro

Inahet, actually I guessed that your question was only rhetorical but as I knew a website with statistics about first names in France, it wasn't a pain to find the figure. So here's the page for Zinedine and here's the page for Zineddine. I simply added both to get the figure. Today, we can find everything on internet ! Metropolitan 10:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, guys, i will make it easy and simple, if you where in Zidane's shoes, you would obivously, do the same thing, beacuse, you would be showing how much u love your family and heritage, beacuse he headbutted someone, doesn't me he is a bad player, no one is going to forget about his past actions, how he won 2 euro's and 1 world cup, and came 2seond place in a world cup, so, if u think he is a bad person, thats your opinon, if you ask me, he is a great guy, and i hope, you guys, will learn from the best of him!Salam Al Olkiom

Copyrighted Image

The picture that used to be here was removed because the terms of use required crediting the source. I think crediting the source is preferable to having no image, and don't think that the caption credit was particularly cumbersome. Other thoughts?--DaveOinSF 02:07, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do. Having an image is nice, but not necessary. If the price we pay for this is having to give proper credit, it is right and good, and we can do this on the image page. If we are obliged to put a link to this site in every article that uses one of its images, then we can remove alltogether.--Kwame Nkrumah 13:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Well first of all, credit is indeed given on the image page. It doesn't say anything about requiring it there where it was. And if we need to credit it on the Zidane page, it could be done in the Footnotes section.--DaveOinSF 15:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry, but the copyright holder explicitly requests the credit to be present "whenever my images are used" (User_talk:Soccer-europe.com#Images from your website). And yes, we could put it in footnotes, but it still would be a promotional entry we could do without.--Kwame Nkrumah 15:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Pic of Zidane

Image:Zidane Paris CdG.png Toira 10:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

is it possible to get a new pic ? he seems to be covering half of his face Boomshanka 04:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)boomshanka

not only that, the new pic has a pic of david beckham in the background. what the fuck? can't any one find a picture of zidane by himself? if i want to see a picture of david beckham, ill go to his article, if i want to see a picture of a competent footballer, i expect to see a picture of exactly that

Seriously people, lets get a new picture, that one is completely lame

I found a solution for the arab imperialistic propagandists and the others

For each firstname we will create a special article regarding its etimology, example: -Issa- abdullah will link to -Issa (name)- (.... Issa is a firstname, it comes from the hebrew Yoshwa.... Bla bla bla), do the same thnig with Zinedine (by linking to another page), you can make 3 pages of etimology around that name, you can write in chinese script, hyroglyphs or any thing you can ***** on, that way you'll be a proud superior arab who speak the language of god.... I promise we will not intervene.... Toira 17:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't respond to this personal attack made by Toira, he/she has been warned, and if personal attacks persist, this user will be blocked. --Inahet 21:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok let's rephrase it : Solution to transliterations

For each firstname we will create a special article regarding its etimology, example: -Issa- abdullah will link to -Issa (name)- (.... Issa is a firstname, it comes from the hebrew Yoshwa.... Bla bla bla), do the same thnig with Zinedine (by linking to another page). That way, every person with a name of arabic origin will be treated equally : be it mustafa kemal or zinedine zidane. Toira 21:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the solution has been found (a compromise) and that, as no one has attempted to readd the Arabic to the beginning, the issue is resolved, and I suspect talking about it further is counterproductive. BalthCat 21:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the solution has already been found but it seems as soon as you wrote that BalthCat someone re-added the Arabic to the beginning. It seems who ever did it, did it right after reading what you wrote. Maybe its the person you were just speaking to and clairifing the situation to, maybe they did it to spite the system. I removed the Arabic from the beginning and did my best to replace the IPA pronounciation because they removed it and if it happens again someone should write to the individual to stop because the solution has been made down at the trivia portion. Thanks. by Mazighe

Zidane's Name Origin

Someone keeps adding in the Trivia section about Zidane's name that it is of Swahili origin. That is incorrect it is of Arabic origin. Yazid, as well as an array of other Arabic names are used by many people of many ethnicities. Yazid is used by Urdu speakers, Farsi speakers, Swahili speakers, Turkish speakers, Bengali speakers and as in this case Kabyle. Even if Swahili use the name Yazid, it is false information and an incorrect source to state that the name Yazid is of Swahili origin. Arabic permiates the language of Swahili as well as Urdu, Farsi, Turkish. That does not mean the name originates in those languages, that is misinformation that many sites that claim name origins make. What those sites are intended to do is give people an idea of where the name is used such as in Swahili areas yet they give the misinformation that it is of Swahili origin. All parts of Zidane's full name originate from Arabic.

If one reads the article in Wikipedia about Swahili one will find the statement: "Over a thousand years of intense and varied interaction with the Middle East, Arabia, Persia, India, China, Portugal, and England has given Swahili a rich INFUSION OF LOANWORDS from a wide assortment of languages."

Yazid is not the only loanword Arabic gave to Swahili, the name Swahili it self comes from Arabic, as one finds in the Wikipedia article about Swahili that the name Swahili: "comes from the plural of the Arabic word sahel ساحل: sawahil سواحل meaning "boundary" or "coast" (used as an adjective to mean "coastal dwellers")"

by Mazighe

Split off Materazzi controversy

As it stands now, the "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section is disproportionally big, both compared to the rest of the article, and also considering the article is about Zidane as a person, not that action and how everybody from Chirac to TIME magazine views that specific incident. Also, when both Zidane and Materazzi were involved, it would be better to collect all information at a "neutral ground" instead of spreading it out over the two seperate articles. I mean, just the fact that it is subsections in a subsection of a subsection shows that it is a small detail in the picture, but could have its own article. A new article named "Zinedine Zidane head butt of Marco Materazzi" (or whatever it was chiefly referred to as) should be made from the entire "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section.Poulsen 13:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The article is not so long as to justify a split. A lack of content in other areas does not indicate a problem in this one. Philc _T^E_C^I 20:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I never mentioned a lack of content in other areas as a reason to split off, where do you have that from? Splitting it off isn't anything to do with length or size - but the fact that it has an emphasis of a sub-sub-subsection which skewers the article away from dealing with the subject of Zidane. Had it been an incident over a longer period of time, instead of a week-long media frenzy it would say something about Zidane, but the way it is it's more of an "event" in and of itself and quite independent of Zidane himself - and is mostly a media phenomenon. I'm not saying to not explain it at all, but to put it into perspective against the complete scope of his career. Alternately, the "Confrontation with Marco Materazzi" section could be its own level 1 header, in order to format it properly instead of the crummy bolded-only lines now representing "Provocation" section headers and so on. Poulsen 20:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

There is already an article Zidane headbutt - but it deals more with the internet memes and photoshops surrounding the incident, rather than the incident itself. I just saw a link changed from Zidane headbutt to Zinedine Zidane#Confrontation with Marco Materazzi - I went to change it back, thinking the original would have more information about the incident, but found the opposite - the information about the headbutt itself isn't in the headbutt article. I agree with the suggestion here most of the 'Confrontation ..' section here be split off to Zidane headbutt. -- Chuq 12:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Career stats

Can someone with access to a reliable source confirm the club statistics in the infobox? They are out of step with other online sources like Yahoo and footballdatabase.com. --Muchness 20:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

La Castellane

and raised in La Castellane, a government-sponsored housing project

Interestingly, Real Madrid's Estadio Santiago Bernabeu is in Paseo de La Castellana, Madrid.

Euros?

Why is the cost of Zinedine Zidane from Juventus to Real Madrid in Euros for? Real payed Juventus in pesetas. Isn't it supposed to be $66 million? Why isn't it written in pounds? He costed £47 million. Real payed Juventus 13 billion spanish pesetas- SCB '92 15:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Present day transfers are measured in Euros. This is uniform for all non-british transfers.

Recent edit about Zidane's film

Can someone check this. I don't read Spanish. Thnaks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 09:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The information is true, and was moved to the Zidane, un portrait du 21e siècle article. Thanks --ChaChaFut 16:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirming that. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 17:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

06 World Cup

if youre going to mention the world cup in the opening paragraphs, the headbutt must logically also be mentioned. It is sad to say but to say Zidane's World Cup will be remembered for his performance is wishful thinking.

Legacy section lacking NPOV

Now Im completely new to this and have only read a few discussions, but when I read the legacy section of the article it basically screamed bias. I dont know how to "tag" or anything that Ive seen mentioned, but I think its worth mentioning that at least one reader find this article lacking a NPOV... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.162.0.42 (talk) 18:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

I'd advocate either removing the legacy section altogether or completely rewriting it. 'Off the court activities?' He's neither a lawyer nor tennis player. 'top five or ten premier soccer/football players in the history of the sport' sounds bizarre also. Ajsccfc 14:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)