Talk:Yuri Gagarin/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 02:51, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Looking forward to reviewing this article! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 02:51, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for starting this review! --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Comments

Prose

• I added "German" before "officer" to make it clear what type of officer had commandeered the Gagarin home
  • OK. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
• Why is "young workers" in quotation marks?
  • No good reason. Fixed. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
• I reworded the sentence about starting to fly
  • OK. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
• I removed "with flying colors" as that is a colloquialism, and the success was already indicated earlier in the sentence
  • OK. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would clean up the section about his pilot training in the following ways:
  1. What is "First Chkalov Air Force Pilot's School?" Is that an equivalent of a service university, like the US Air Force Academy, or is it a place for Undergraduate Pilot Training?
     • I am not absolutely sure but I think the latter. Hall, Shayler & Vis state that most of the Vostok cosmonauts including Gagarin "had not attained a higher education degree." Soviet education system is structured quite differently. My best guess is that Gagarin, before selection for Vostok, only had a junior college/technical school education along with air force pilot certification. He did not earn his specialist diploma (equivalent to a Master's) until 87 years after he went to space. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:59, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
  2. I don't think it's necessary to put his cadet rank promotions; it's like going from freshman to sophomore
     • Agreed. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:33, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
  3. I'll take a stab at shortening the section about him struggling in flight training
     • Thank you for doing that.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
  4. What are the ranks like "military pilot, third class?" I can't find a record of them anywhere, are they an actual rank that he promoted to from lieutenant, or are they an aircrew proficiency rating?
     • Me either. I have made significant changes and improvements to this section. I general trust Burguess & Hall but I have no idea what they meant by that and can't find it in any other reliable source. I have removed it. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:33, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
       • He was eventually given military pilot 1st class, so it will have to be addressed at some point. Kees08 (Talk) 06:50, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
       • I am pretty sure it is an honorary title/award, similar to Merited Test Pilot of the USSR. I have looked for this before and was unable to find anything, poking around again. Kees08 (Talk) 06:57, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         According to these similar sources,[1][2] the titles are Военный летчик 3-го класса (07.07.1959), Военный летчик 1-го класса (12.04.1961). A better translation is "fighter pilot, 3rd class" and "fighter pilot, 1st class". I don't know what that relates to in Western military terms. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         And it looks like Merited Military Pilot of the USSR was established in 1965, so if you were a military pilot 1st class you could get an honorary title. Not sure the parallels to Western military either. Kees08 (Talk) 07:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         I was just going to say that! I added it to Honours and awards section. It must have been a predecessor.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         It is a profiency class (thanks CIA spying!). page 6 "...until they have enough hours to qualify as pilot third-class." The next page even has how each class is defined. Which means it would not be an honor/award. Kees08 (Talk) 07:21, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         Agreed. It also explains why he achieved 1st class mid space flight. We should work it into the prose then? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:30, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

         I have worked it in. The requirements must have been lower in 1959. If we count from when he became a cadet, he was at 4 years of service, and about 250 hours total & 100 hours solo flight time. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:15, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

• I would move the part about the promotion to senior lieutenant to the previous section. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that the section is about his cosmonaut career, and then starts out with his military promotion. Nothing against a military promotion, but it is way less significant than selection to travel into space.
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
• Can you elaborate on what the experiments that Gagarin had to experience were?
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:59, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would remove that Gagarin kept fit throughout his life; it's not that closely related to his cosmonaut service
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would also remove the paragraph that was a quote about him keeping in shape; it isn't necessary to convey that Gagarin was into sports
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would move this sports-related information to a personal life section
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:36, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
• Is there any more information about his training up to Vostok 1? The article takes a sharp turn after it says that he was selected, and then jumps to the launch itself.
  • Added a lot more about selection process and training. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:00, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would move the launch tower quotes to earlier, so that the article flows chronologically
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:00, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would remove the section about the debate over Gagarin's words about the existence of God. I would maybe put something about religion in the personal life section, but I don't think the speculation of Gagarin's religious beliefs belong in the section about his flight.
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:00, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would either expand or remove the part about him drinking alcohol, as the significance isn't clear as it stands. I'm assuming the point is that he drank before his fame, but he began drinking more often? If so, are there stories of him getting really drunk? Did it affect his health in some way?
  • I made the relevance more apparent by reworking the paragraphs. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:33, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would move the affair part to his "personal life" section, and I would also explicitly state that he was caught having an affair, remove the nurse's name, and keep the tense consistent on the story about his escape out the window.
  • Done. I don't think "affair" is an appropriate descriptor; I went with liaison since we don't have any sources indicating a prolong relationship. It appears to have been a single meeting with the nurse. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:33, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would combine the "Honours and awards" section with the "legacy" section. I would name the new combined sections "Awards and honors," as that is an all-encompassing to his military/state awards, as well as the statues, memorials, etc. Personal preference, but I think it's best if it's all prose, vs. a split with prose and a list.
  • @Kees08: could you take this item and the one right below? We should go to prose instead backwards to a list. I think we can get this to FA for 60th anniversary so might as well do it now. I will take care of all the rest (and these items as well if you don't have the time). --- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:16, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would remove "welcomed back to Earth" as he landed 2 days before the parade
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:33, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
• Which organization conducted the "government" investigation, as a KGB and military investigation also are government investigations
  • Not sure. So far, I can only account for two investigations, one military and one KGB. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Done. I was able to account for 3 different investigations. I changed to "At least three..."--- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:38, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would either shorten or remove the Leonov theories about the Su-15. While I don't dispute the possibility of it occurring, the section places undue weight on what appears to be one man's account. While the Soviet/Russian governments were known for their truthfulness, I think most of the section of his death should focus on the results of the investigations.
  • Trimmed. I believe Leonov's account of the crash is the most accurate and detailed I have read. He gives several convincing evidence in his book and I think his version of events is the most accepted account. I will confirm when with other sources. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 13:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
• I would remove the paragraph about Gagarin's smile. While it may be appropriate to say that he was charismatic, his legacy about his accomplishments, not just his smile. While I would say that he's not a bad looking guy, it's a bit of a stretch to say that his smile alone is what got people excited to listen to him. Additionally, I don't think his charisma is what belongs in a section about how he has been commemorated since his historic flight
  • Trimmed and moved relevant info to the section on his world tour. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

• Commons page for deletion of one picture
  • Removed. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:57, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
• There are several citation needed tags for unsourced information
  • Done. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:38, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

I will go through this when your review is finished, working on a couple of other projects right now that I can hopefully complete soon. Kees08 (Talk) 01:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

@Coffeeandcrumbs and Kees08: That's it for my first pass at the article. It's looking in pretty good shape. I'll be available to critique any edits, and answer any questions. I think the article is in pretty good shape; looking forward to passing it! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 08:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

@Balon Greyjoy: I think I am ready for you to take a look. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:38, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

@Coffeeandcrumbs: Nice work on the article; happy to pass it! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 07:49, 18 June 2019 (UTC)