Talk:Yellow soybean paste

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干黄酱

Need tone for 干 in 干黄酱. Badagnani 16:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. Badagnani 01:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed Photo

I removed this photo: [1] because the server doesn't like external links to their images. Indium 02:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

1. Could we please have some proof of that? 2. What right does a website have to restrict linking? Badagnani 02:48, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

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Same as Tauchu??

I think the entry for Tauchu could be redirected to this page. As far as I know they both refer to the same product, the difference being that Tauchu is its name in the Min Nan dialect and as such known in most of South East Asia and also (via the former colonies Malaysia and Indonesia) Britain and The Netherlands. Can anyone verify this? This would also entail re-writing part of the article to include southern Chinese (Hokkien, Teochiew, Thai, Malay and Indonesian cuisine. An often seen alternative spelling for Tauchu is "Taucheo". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takeaway (talk • contribs) 04:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

They're really the same? But the Chinese names and hanzi are different. Do you have a product that is labeled with both sets of hanzi? Aren't they produced in different parts of China? Badagnani (talk) 04:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

A bit further down in the article on "Yellow soybean paste" you see that "huángdòu jiàng" is also used, which corresponds with Tauchu except that the latter does not contain the term "yellow". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takeaway (talk • contribs) 04:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a label anywhere to show but I can vouch that both taste the same. I have eaten the noodles topped with the paste in Yunnan and I know taucheo from family cooking. It seems that it is only the Cantonese cuisine that does not use this ingredient, using tausi (fermented black bean) instead. Takeaway (talk) 04:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, there are at least five other named varieties of Chinese soybean paste, and all are slightly different in recipe, production, consistency, flavor, and usage. Badagnani (talk) 04:43, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

That is true, but I truly think these two are similar. See [2] for the Thai usage. In Thailand it is called taucheo (they use the Teochew word for it as they are the main Chinese group in Thailand). Also see this article--> [3] where both words "Yellow soyabean paste" and "Taucheo" are uses in the recipes but denoting the same product.

Oops, sorry, link number two doesn't really give you a good indication of them both being similar as they are used in separate recipes. Takeaway (talk) 04:56, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

But this link does-->[4]Takeaway (talk) 04:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

and this one --> [5] Takeaway (talk) 04:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

more -> [6]Takeaway (talk) 05:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

finally found the correct search terms --> [7]Takeaway (talk) 05:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

And also in the variation "yellow bean sauce" and "taucheo"-->[8]

The apparent problem with this Chinese ingredient is that it ended up with a different Chinese regional name in other parts of the world. The majority of Southeast Asians will refer to the Yellow Bean Paste as Taocheo (tauchu, tauco, taotjo, dtow jiow and many more romanisations) taken from the Min Nan word for it, and from there has been taken to the UK and the Netherlands. Even though there might be slight variation in the way it is made or taste due to regional differences in taste and usage, it basically is the same thing and Min Nan speakers will apparently translate Taucheo as "Yellow (soy)bean paste" or "Yellow (soy)bean sauce".Takeaway (talk) 05:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I recently asked a friend from Singapore, who's a cook now doing the 'Le Cordon Bleu' school for hospitality and culinary arts and also speaks both Min Nan Hua and Mandarin fluently as well as English and French, about tauchu and yellow soybean paste. He told me they were the exact same thing. I think it might be a good idea to merge these two articles and also expand the section on tauchu to include the South-East Asian variants. Takeaway (talk) 19:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, if you're sure. There's just one question: is one produced in northern China and the other in southern China? Then, there might be different recipes, flavors, and uses. Badagnani (talk) 19:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be one of those pan-Chinese ingredients. I've also eaten this all the way down in Yunnan near the Burmese border.

In the tauchu article it's mentioned that it's only used in steamed fish dishes. This is not true. Min Nan cuisine has a multitude of dishes where the bean paste is used, also meat and vegetable dishes.

It has now also been incorporated in several South-East Asian cuisines. The countries where I know that they use yellow bean paste (but then known as taucho) in their local cuisines are Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.Takeaway (talk) 03:07, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I asked a very specific question, which you didn't answer at all: "is one produced in northern China and the other in southern China?" Badagnani (talk) 01:06, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I refer to my post of 05:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC) where I already mentioned that Tauchu is the Min Nan language word for Yellow Bean Paste.

A Min Nan speaker would use the word Tauchu to refer to the Yellow Bean Paste regardless of where it is produced just as I would expect a Mandarin speaker to refer to it as being huángjiàng, also regardless of where it is produced.Takeaway (talk) 03:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I myself speak the Teochew dialect (one of the Min Nan languages) and in Teochew it is called Taucho. I don't know from which Min Nan dialect the word Tauchu is taken. I think that it might even be a Min Nan loanword in the Cantonese language (Cantonese people don't commonly use the yellow bean paste in their cuisine). It would explain the Tauchu article's emphasis on it being used in steamed fish dishes as for Cantonese people, Teochew cuisine is famous for it's steamed fish dishes.Takeaway (talk) 03:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I really don't understand why you keep asking your question as I had already stated that this Cordon Blue cook friend of mine told me that they were the exact same thing. As for different uses, yes indeed, many uses for this one ingredient. Does that change anything for the ingredient? For instance: In one Shanghai dish it is used to top steamed tofu, in one Hokkien/Teochew dish it is used to stew chicken with ginger and garlic, in one Thai dish it is used with fried morning glory. It is also an important ingredient in a Singapore dish called Mee Siam.

As for different recipes in the making of taucho/yellow bean paste: Yes, there are differences between one maker and another but as far as I have noticed, they didn't define any differences between North and South, it was more what is called product differentiation between manufacturers regardless where they come from.

I have encountered watery taucho and paste-like taucho and everything in between. Some are more smoky in flavour than others, some more sweet, others more salty. I have seen it sold in plastic jars, glass jars, glass bottles, plastic bottles, tinned and in thick sealed plastic bags. They were still all called taucho though.Takeaway (talk) 04:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Yellow soybean paste is the same as tauchu

See the following websites: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. As stated many times above, tauchu/taucheo is the Min nan word for yellow soybean paste. I will proceed to merge the two pages soon. Takeaway (talk) 07:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

If those pages are not enough, here are some more: 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12. Takeaway (talk) 07:41, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok,here's one more: 13 ;-) Takeaway (talk) 07:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

This is entirely different. Yellow paste is deep in beijing cuisine. 豆醬 is just as generic as "juice" or "soda". Benjwong (talk) 17:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there any other way that you can refute the previous 13 links I provided which show that (Chinese) people in South East Asia view tauchu to be the same as yellow bean paste, other than stating that it is "entirely different"?Takeaway (talk) 14:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Those links are extremely west oriented for a eastern food item. Some are blogs too. Ideally the two big sauce groups should be

1. 醬菜
2. 醬

黄酱 <- Tauchu should be another name for any bean-made sauce here.

甜麵醬

韭菜醬

If you are talking northern cuisine. This is how it really should be. Benjwong (talk) 02:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The recipes in those links are written mainly by Southeast Asian Chinese: mainly by Malaysian and Singapore Chinese and therefore indeed more Westernised than your average Chinese from China. These Southeast Asian Chinese are, for the largest part, descendants of Minnan speaking Chinese people. For Minnan Chinese people, taucheo/tauchu is the name for yellow bean sauce. It is extensively used in Minnan cuisine and its use has spread to the local cuisines in Southeast Asia with the immigration of Minnan people. The word "taucheo/tauchu" does not, as you state, designate a wide variety of "any bean-made sauce" but it designates a specific sauce which is made the same way as that what is called yellow bean sauce in northern China. As for the fact that some links are of blogs, that is hard to avoid in food recipe links. These blogs do show that Southeast Asian Chinese repeatedly refer to taucheo/tauchu as yellow bean sauce. Do you have any knowledge of Minnan cuisine or South East Asian cuisine? --Takeaway (talk) 03:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok Tauchu (豆醬) is a generic name for yellow paste sauce only in those regions. I think that is what you are saying. Just like people in the west say hot sauce is Tabasco sauce. But they are two different things. South chinese people say hot sauce (辣醬) is mustard. Still two different things. I am definitely not expert enough on Minan or SEA cuisine. But I am certain of that northern cuisine one. Benjwong (talk) 05:13, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The word taucheo/tauchu is used not only by the descendants of Chinese immigrants to Southeast Asia, but it has also become the word for yellow bean sauce in many countries in Southeast Asia where it has become a standard ingredient in the local cuisines. I know that the 235 million people in Indonesia use that word, so do 65 million Thai people, 25 million Malaysian people and 5 million Singaporeans. I am not sure what word is used in the rest of Indochina or in the Philippines but seeing that these countries too tend to have large groups of Minnan speaking Chinese, I would assume that they would also use the word taucheo for this paste. This would need to be verified though. Through its former Indonesian colony, it is now also the word for yellow bean sauce in The Netherlands. In merging the two articles "taucheo/tauchu" and "yellow soybean paste" it should be emphasised that the use of either of the names depends on the Chinese dialect and/or country in which one encounters this ingredient.--Takeaway (talk) 14:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Please have some source to support millions of people even eat this. Like I still think we are talking about different things that just so happen to have the same name. Benjwong (talk) 05:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you seen all the previous links which I have provided on this talk page? They come from all the different countries which I named in my previous reply. They also cover a whole range of recipes from all the different cuisines. For all the people in these countries, the word for yellow bean paste is taucheo/tauchu/tau cheong/taotjo. Why would they all need to have eaten this ingredient according to you before you are satisfied that taucho is the same as yellow bean paste? Is it not enough that they all call it that way? I would assume that, after having seen so many links to recipes from all these different cuisines, you would also agree that dishes made with this ingredient are very common in the whole of Southeast Asia.

We are not talking about different things which share the same name. Quite the opposite is true: we are talking about the same thing but with different names. The websites which mention both names for this ingredient, cater to people who know this ingredient under these different names and that is why they mention both.Takeaway (talk) 18:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Not yellow?

Quote: Despite its name, the paste is not yellow in color

I have a jar of the stuff in my fridge, and it is yellow, too, (or slightly beige). And if you do a picture search, most of the hits are indeed yellow. Maikel (talk) 18:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

My bad, those are thai variants, which apparently are more yellow in appearance. Maikel (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Substitute?

Quote: Yellow soybean paste is used most notably in the noodle dish called zhajiang mian, although outside Beijing, sweet bean sauce or hoisin sauce is often used as a substitute. ... Unlike sweet bean sauce, yellow soybean paste is salty ...

Yeah! So how the hell can it be used as a substitute? Maikel (talk) 18:06, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Rephrased it. Maikel (talk) 15:51, 3 September 2016 (UTC)