Talk:Weinstadt
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Translation Notes
editTranslated the geography section from the Germany article.
- Nice job! --MelanieN (talk) 13:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks! --Paigemorrison (talk) 13:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
- Nice job! --MelanieN (talk) 13:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Translation of German article completed. Phew! --Paigemorrison (talk) 13:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC) I'm not sure the right way to reference the "Stadtteile". Right now it's using the German phrase with an explanation at the beginning. I took a look through Wikipedia articles to try to find a pattern and had no luck, so I see if I can find some discussion on the German translation project. --Paigemorrison (talk) 13:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for this, Paigemorrison, outstanding job! and very interesting to read. I think you are right that there is no good translation for Stadtteile. The closest English equivalent would be "neighborhood," and that is not a good description of these places, since they still maintain their geographic separateness as well as individual histories spanning hundreds of years.
BTW, about that picture - do you know which Stadtteile it shows? The picture was originally captioned "view of the town," and I changed it to "view of one district," because I thought it was misleading to imply that it showed the whole city. I'd rather specify exactly which Stadtteile it is but I couldn't identify it. --MelanieN (talk) 19:30, 3 June 2012 (UTC)- So glad someone already found and read it! I think I was able to figure out which Stadtteil the picture is of, based some Google maps satellite photos + eliminating the ones it couldn't be (since it doesn't have a church spire dominating the skyline), but I wasn't sure if that was solid enough information to change the caption. 95% sure it's Strümpfelbach, though. I think I found where the sculptures in the foreground are, and everything else lines up though. I'm tempted to replace it with another similar picture, since I probably have many of my own, where I could say with absolute certainty what the subject was.
- I was most struck by the cell phone tower in the foreground. There is a similar cell phone tower on the hill of Landgut Burg, as I noticed on a recent visit, and that made me wonder if it might be looking down from the hill toward Schnait - looking east as you can do from the road. But this looks like an aerial photo, not limited to what you can see from the road, so it could certainly be looking down from the same hill but looking south toward Strümpfelbach. In any case there must be many cell phone towers in the area. --MelanieN (talk) 17:02, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- Oops, forget about Schnait. That forest in the background totally rules it out. Strümpfelbach seems much more likely. --MelanieN (talk) 17:07, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- I was most struck by the cell phone tower in the foreground. There is a similar cell phone tower on the hill of Landgut Burg, as I noticed on a recent visit, and that made me wonder if it might be looking down from the hill toward Schnait - looking east as you can do from the road. But this looks like an aerial photo, not limited to what you can see from the road, so it could certainly be looking down from the same hill but looking south toward Strümpfelbach. In any case there must be many cell phone towers in the area. --MelanieN (talk) 17:02, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- So glad someone already found and read it! I think I was able to figure out which Stadtteil the picture is of, based some Google maps satellite photos + eliminating the ones it couldn't be (since it doesn't have a church spire dominating the skyline), but I wasn't sure if that was solid enough information to change the caption. 95% sure it's Strümpfelbach, though. I think I found where the sculptures in the foreground are, and everything else lines up though. I'm tempted to replace it with another similar picture, since I probably have many of my own, where I could say with absolute certainty what the subject was.
- Also, Wikipedia links "Stadtteil" (or "Ortsteil," they seem to be used interchangeably) to the article about "quarters" (i.e. the French Quarter in New Orleans), but that seems to have the same problems that "neighborhood" does. --Paigemorrison (talk) 11:21, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- Oh, and one more note about "Stadtteil" -- I also looked into "borough," but that seems to correspond more to the German "(Stadt)bezirk", which is a similar-type of division in a much larger city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paigemorrison (talk • contribs) 11:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
I've now translated the Beutelsbach (Weinstadt) page into English as well. (That maintains the structure of the German version.) Some of the information seems to be oddly divided between the two pages, however -- for example, the "people" section for Beutelsbach includes two people, both of whom aren't on the Weinstadt page. Should they be moved here? Duplicated in both places? I'm not sure what's right here.--Paigemorrison (talk) 18:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Catholics
editAbout the influx of Catholics following World War II: My impression when I lived in Beutelsbach (1961) was that the majority of newly arrived Catholics were refugees from the Ostzone. I don't have any source to support this, though; I guess it would be considered as "original research". Does anyone know if my impression is correct? --MelanieN (talk) 18:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
"Wine Town" or "Wine City"?
editThe article translates the name Weinstadt as "Wine City". A while ago someone changed it to "Wine Town" and I changed it back to "Wine City." But I would be glad to hear other opinions as to which is the better translation. English makes a distinction between "city" (larger places) and "town" (smaller places), but both are translated as Stadt in German. In addition to suggesting size, "town" in English can be considered a more informal or casual term, while "city" is more dignified and formal - that's the main reason I preferred "city". --MelanieN (talk) 19:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
- I find "city" more appropriate, too. I suspect that even in English, the usage of "city" and "town" is somewhat inconsistent. That is, the same person will use "city" to indicate that a place is larger than a "town", but one person's "town" might be another person's "city." Also, Weinstadt is big enough to be a "Große Kreisstadt", which makes it, at least on some scale within Germany a larger "Stadt." --Paigemorrison (talk) 11:27, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- On the other hand, this seems to indicate the it should be a "town": http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Germany/Conventions#Translation_of_Stadt. --Paigemorrison (talk) 11:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- And... one more point... I found the explanation in the Town article very interesting. Apparently the British usage significantly shifted from the American usage -- so that, for example, the "city" of 30,000 people that I grew up in would be a "town" or "small town" to the Brits. In my native California, the terms "city" and "town" are apparently even legal synonyms. So *I* still find "Wine City" a better translation of "Weinstadt," but I'm less convinced that it's a better translation for the public at large. --Paigemorrison (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- That translation link is interesting, but I'm not sure we have to follow it in translating the name. I recently was involved in an argument at AfD about how big a place has to be to be called a "city" or "town"; some people suggested an arbitrary cutoff such as 100,000 people, but we went with the city's own description of itself. As you say, in the U.S. it seems to be up to the local inhabitants whether they want to call themselves a "town" or a "city". In the case of Weinstadt, I admit it doesn't feel much like a "city" - its character is definitely not urban. I chose "Wine City" just because I felt it was a little more respectful, rather than because of its size or character. To me, calling a place "such-and-such town" is kind of flippant, as in "Bean Town," "Funky Town" "Cow Town", etc. I guess if you and I are the only people currently working on this article, we amount to a consensus - until someone comes along to overrule us! --MelanieN (talk) 15:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- Works for me! --Paigemorrison (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
- That translation link is interesting, but I'm not sure we have to follow it in translating the name. I recently was involved in an argument at AfD about how big a place has to be to be called a "city" or "town"; some people suggested an arbitrary cutoff such as 100,000 people, but we went with the city's own description of itself. As you say, in the U.S. it seems to be up to the local inhabitants whether they want to call themselves a "town" or a "city". In the case of Weinstadt, I admit it doesn't feel much like a "city" - its character is definitely not urban. I chose "Wine City" just because I felt it was a little more respectful, rather than because of its size or character. To me, calling a place "such-and-such town" is kind of flippant, as in "Bean Town," "Funky Town" "Cow Town", etc. I guess if you and I are the only people currently working on this article, we amount to a consensus - until someone comes along to overrule us! --MelanieN (talk) 15:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
External links modified
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{{dead link}}tag to http://www.weinstadt.de/dcm/frames.php3?session_id=&language=german&sid=A983112329632282&actual_document_id=A953612292145301&document_id=A527271045503101&template_class=HTML - Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090418025816/http://www.weinstadt.de/dcm/imagine/frontend/index.php3?sid=A119552052947671&tc=html&la=RwKio1NSwXvPdhxf&page=news%2Fold_news%2Fdetail&news_id=A122328457065961 to http://www.weinstadt.de/dcm/imagine/frontend/index.php3?sid=A119552052947671&tc=html&la=RwKio1NSwXvPdhxf&page=news%2Fold_news%2Fdetail&news_id=A122328457065961
- Added archive https://archive.is/20120919050631/http://www.pressebox.com/pressemeldungen/ancestry/boxid-267841.html to http://www.pressebox.com/pressemeldungen/ancestry/boxid-267841.html
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