Talk:Varna (Hinduism)

Quotes from primary sources

Rishi Markandeya, with Vyasa, argue that in Kali Yuga there are not four varnas, but there is only one Shudra varna. "Mahabharata" (3.188.18, 41): ब्राह्मणाः क्षत्रिया वैश्याः संकीर्यन्तः परस्परम् । शूद्रतुल्या भविष्यन्ति तपःसत्यविवर्जिताः ॥ १८ ॥ ब्राह्मणाः क्षत्रिया वैश्या न शिष्यन्ति जनाधिप । एकवर्णस्तदा लोको भविष्यति युगक्षये ॥ ४१ ॥

Nayanar-siddh Tirumular also states that in Kali Yuga there is only one kula. "Thirumantiram" (2104): ஒன்றே குலமும் ஒருவனே தேவனும் நன்றே நினைமின் நமனில்லை நாணாமே சென்றே புகுங்கதி யில்லை நும் சித்தத்து நின்றே நிலைபெற நீர்நினைந் துய்மினே. 2A00:1FA0:C217:949C:714A:A9F3:BF03:9B54 (talk) 10:49, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

You need to provide reliable WP:SECONDARY sources, preferably scholarly sources. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not necessary, because these are quotes from the religious primary sources themselves. Such citations are usually added to religious articles on Wikipedia without the need for any reference to scientific works. 2A00:1FA0:C217:949C:714A:A9F3:BF03:9B54 (talk) 12:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Varnas in the Upanishads

In the Upanishads, varnas are determined not by the genealogies of people, but by the qualities of their personalities. Look in Chandogya Upanishad 4.4.3-5, Vajrasuchika Upanishad 5, Niralamba Upanishad 6. 2A00:1FA0:8217:A76F:904C:9520:C709:3736 (talk) 10:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Varnas in the The Epics section

From first hand experience, the line "The first model describes Varna as colour-coded system, through a sage named Bhrigu, "Brahmins Varna was white, Kshtriyas was red, Vaishyas was yellow, and the Shudras' black"." in the paragraph under the epics is being misunderstood/misused. I was in a 200 people seminar where the speaker used this sentence to refer to skin colour calling it discriminatory in nature.

The sentence should clearly state that this "color coded model" does not speak of one's skin color but refers to personality. White means pure which a truly learned person should be, red talks about power in kshtriyas. Yellow speaks of envy/greed in vaysas where as black denotes lack of knowledge in shudras.

There should be more detail about rajas, tamas and satvikta here to ensure that what these colors signify is not misunderstood. 2A02:EE80:4026:3004:9407:6B58:13B2:73CD (talk) 16:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Vajrasuchi Upanishad

@Pepperbeast please provide the quote from your given source. And who is Mariola Offredi? is he a scholar? please provide a bio of him. Please see under WP:HISTRS We need academic sources for these claims. Thanks. Timovinga (talk) 11:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

The article clearly needs to be edited.

In Chandogya Upanishad 4.4.3-5, Vajrasuchika Upanishad 5, Niralamba Upanishad 6, it is clearly stated that varnas are determined not by the pedigree of people, but by the qualities of their personalities.

And in Mahabharata 3.188.18, 41, it is clearly stated that in Kali-Yuga there are no varnas at all, except for the shudras. 2A00:1FA0:C4DF:46E1:30C5:C064:2404:8915 (talk) 13:37, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Varna-Chaturasram

It was not at all hierarchical. It was based on the special qualities of an individual that he or she was segregated into one of the four classes in then-society. None of his or her next generations could attain that privilege. They, according to their qualities, would stay in that Varna or had to join another one of the four if he or she did not have those qualities of being titled of an earlier Varna. 2409:40E0:45:476C:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 09:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)