Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians

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Merge to Golda Meir?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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While this is a quote that occasionally comes up in popular debates and gets interpreted as suits the argument (almost always as a straw man), this is not Wikiquote and it doesn't seem to have independent historical significance. It was a memorable point of controversy in Meir's political career, worth a mention in her bio; but this should probably merge into her article. – SJ + 19:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Significant post-dated critical commentary on a quote (widely cited out of context, mind you) does not warrant a page of this size.

There’s already a mention in her article and an expansion of that section should be sufficient.

Mistamystery (talk) 22:07, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Disagree - the quote is highly significant in its own right. Notwithstanding the high quality of the sources used in the article, note that in the last two years this article has been read almost 150,000 times. That statistic alone confirms the clear notability of this topic. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree to merge, it's entirely undue giving this much copy to a quote. Per WP:ONUS, just because something is noteworthy it does not mean it deserves its own article. TarnishedPath^talk 09:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Merge per Sj. Lightburst (talk) 18:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Merge per SJ, it is significant, but not significant enough for a separate article. FortunateSons (talk) 13:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - For now, anyway. I'm having difficulty mapping the reasons provided to WP:MERGEREASON. Another mapping seems to be to WP:NOTMERGE, specifically "Merging should be avoided if: 2. The separate topics could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross-linked) articles", which resembles a description of what has presumably already happened in this case and will continue to happen over time, as is the norm with Wikipedia articles. Onceinawhile's statistic is a consideration too, together with this information that appears to indicate that readership is still at a relatively elevated level, presumably because of the ongoing war. Sean.hoyland (talk) 15:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose – It seems reasonable to argue that this phrase doesn't deserve its own article but if anything it should be merged into a page about "Denial of Palestinian peoplehood/nationality/identity". I don't believe merging to Golda Meir makes sense. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

The article is about Meir. She’s the primary source of notability. If it was some random who said the same things we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because this article wouldn’t exist. TarnishedPath^talk 13:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

This article is not about Meir and your statement that "If it was some random who said the same things we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because this article wouldn’t exist." is not true at all – see the bride is beautiful but she is married to another man. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 13:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

That article discusses a common phrase, broadly used. This article discusses quotes from Meir specifically. No Meir making said quotes no article about Meir making said quotes. TarnishedPath^talk 13:55, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose merging to Golda Meir - putting all this content on the biography article about her would be WP:UNDUE for the biography article about her. This woman's life was about more than just this one quote. Neutral on merging to Palestinian identity#Denial of Palestinian identity. Neutral because it quite possibly would also be WP:UNDUE for that article, but maybe not, as this quote is a famous example of denial of Palestinian identity. I'd be curious what editors of that article think about it. But I would think if that target is considered, there should be a new merge proposal, and per WP:MERGEPROP, the discussion should happen at the merge destination article not the origin article. Levivich (talk) 15:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose consistent with the reasons above. Onceinawhile (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Merge to Palestinian identity#Denial of Palestinian identity. It's not a significant aspect of coverage of Meir. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 18:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose widely covered in RS and received significant coverage per notability guideline. Makeandtoss (talk) 19:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose largely along the lines of Levivich. It would be undue on the biography, and if an alternative merge target is considered preferable, it should be discussed there. Palestinian identity is certainly an option. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

NB – this article consistently gets 2x as many pageviews as Palestinian identity. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Each article stands alone with their own topic and citations. Hogo-2020 (talk) 08:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Merge, Golda has probably hundreds of notable quotes, I haven't seen articles for any other of them. That's exactly what Wiktionary is for. We can some up the quote in two sentences on the main article HaOfa (talk) 15:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Hundreds of notably racist and vaguely genocidal quotes? If so, I'm clearly not reading the right stuff. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it deserves more than two sentences, but not a whole article. TarnishedPath^talk 00:03, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Comment, I've listed this for a close at Wikipedia:Closure requests#Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians#Merge to Golda Meir? TarnishedPath^talk 00:38, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - she's not the only person who has said this, it is a broader topic. FourPi (talk) 03:16, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.