Talk:The Gambia

Ngram

FWIW, I was dorking around with learning some of the operators in google Ngrams and got this result, which, if I'm doing it right, seems to indicate:

• Instances of the occurrence of the term "Gambia" in the phrases "Gambia River" or "River Gambia" are practically negligible for our purposes here (that is, people writing "Gambia" were seldom doing so to refer to the river. This seems odd to me but if I'm reading it right, it's true.)

• When the Term "Gambia" was used, about half the time it is part of the phrase "T/the Gambia", and about half just "Gambia" not preceded by "T/the".

• I would think that when the phrase "T/the Gambia" and the term "Gambia" without the article (and the river is not being referred to), it would mostly be referring to the name of the country or something deriving from the name of the country (e.g. "T/the Gambia International Airport" / "Gambia International Airport" and so forth.

• When "Gambia Iron Company" and "Gambia Airport" etc are used, this supports "Gambia" as the name of country, while "T/the Gambia Iron Company" and "T/he Gambia Airport" supports "T/the Gambia" as the name of the country.

Sure Ngram is a somewhat blunt instrument. "...then take a left at the Gambia Iron Company building..." and "In The Gambia, you will find Gambia Linen, Gambia Coconuts, and Gambia Poptarts" will give false results. But I'm going to guess that these aren't a big part of the results (particularly the latter example, where the adjectival form would be used mostly ("In the Gambia, you will find Gambian linen..."), and in addition that these instances would probably cancel each other to some degree. Blunt instrument, but I'm going to assume plenty sharp enough for our purposes

So, the result gives about 50% "T/the Gambia" as the name of the country, and about 50% just "Gambia" as the name of the country. (Actually more like 60%+ for just "Gambia", but I'm being generous, considering all the false results we are probably getting.)

Not suggesting a name change for the article, good Lord no. Shoot me rather than going thru all that again. However, I do think this gives me sufficient support to make these additions (show in bold):

1) Top of the lede: "The Gambia, officially the Republic of The Gambia, sometimes shortened to just Gambia, is a country in West Africa."

2) In the Etymology section, start of second paragraph: "The Gambia is one of a small number of countries for which the definite article is commonly (although far from universally) used in its English-language name... (It is true that this is mentioned at the end of the section also, but it's worth also mentioning nearer the top, as it seems to be a noticed and even contested issue (if the Wikipedia is any indicator, which maybe).

And I have done so. Revert as you all wish, but for that I think the argument would have to be something along the lines of "The percentage of people who refer to T/the Gambia without using the definite article is so negligible that informing the reader that these people even exist is unwarranted or misleading" which I doubt that that can be demonstrated (willing to be proven wrong).

Also my wording may not be optimal, of course. Maybe "often shortened to just Gambia" or "commonly used in its English-language name, but not always... or whatever is better. Herostratus (talk) 17:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Those changes look helpful. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Those who do not use the article "the" before Gambia do so because their language does not do it for any plural. The entry says the Bahamas and the Gambia are the only countries that start with "the". And that is not true since all plurals do start with "the", like the USA, the Ukraine, the Maldives, etc. The Bahamas are a plural chain of islands. The Gambia is the plural lands under the flowage of the Gambia River. Actually "the Gambia" is short for "the Gambia River Basin". You would not say, "I want to swim in Gambia River". You would say, "I want to swim in the Gambia River". The ethnic Polish in the west of the Ukraine do not put "the" in front of any plurals, so that is where the confusion comes from. 71.228.106.51 (talk) 15:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Countries Starting with "the"

The entry says the Bahamas and the Gambia are the only countries that start with "the". And that is not true since all plurals do start with "the", like the USA, the Ukraine, the Maldives, etc. The Bahamas are a plural chain of islands. The Gambia is the plural lands under the flowage of the Gambia River. Actually "the Gambia" is short for "the Gambia River Basin". You would not say, "I want to swim in Gambia River". You would say, "I want to swim in the Gambia River". 71.228.106.51 (talk) 14:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Description of cuisine

Should the opening of the section on cuisine (The Gambia#Cuisine) say something like:

The Gambia doesn't actually have its own cuisine, the food that is to be found there stems mostly from neighbouring Senegal, whose cuisine is French-influenced.

or

The cuisine of the Gambia is heavily influenced by the culinary traditions of neighbouring Senegal, reflecting a mix of local ingredients and historical influences, including French colonial cuisine.

There's been a difference of opinion in recent edits. Please discuss here to resolve this issue. Thank you. SchreiberBike | ⌨  03:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I´m from there and I know for a fact that the Gambia does not have its own cuisine. Its Senegalese cuisine they are preparing. Pendere1 (talk) 14:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not from the Gambia or Senegal and it's possible I've never eaten food from those places, but I think I know what it means for a country to have a cuisine. The food of the Gambia is Gambian cuisine. I have no idea if the food in the Gambia is different from Senegalese food, but it is the food in the Gambia, and hence its cuisine. I don't think we could say that there is any country, any culture, or any family, which "doesn't actually have its own cuisine". SchreiberBike | ⌨  03:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Exactly, you're not from there, we from those countries know what it's like there. By food of Gambia do you mean yassa? If so it's not Gambian but Senegalese, domoda? Also Senegalese. The Gambia doesn't have any dishes, Senegalese cuisine is prepared there, yassa, for example, is prepared in the Gambia, Mauritania, Guinea, even Ivory Coast and many other countries, so it can't be Gambian cuisine, otherwise you could have said it's Ivorian cuisine as well, because Senegalese cuisine is also prepared there. You are confusing being neighbouring and the respective country's own cuisine. The Gambia and Senegal are neighbours but the cuisine is Senegalese. Yassa, for example, is from Casamance, a town in Senegal, it's not Gambian, Domoda is from Tambacounda, also a town in Senegal. Pendere1 (talk) 07:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I can't say the latter version is perfect, but it's miles better than the former. It's obviously inappropriate for us to claim—without any sources, especially—that a country has no cuisine of its own. It would be better to have no cuisine section than to make such a claim. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I´m sorry but saying the latter version is perfect is intellectual dishonesty. You simply cannot attribute the dishes of another country to the Gambia just because you want to be its cuisine. I´m from there therefore I should know, so we will either keep the version I wrote, or the cuisine section will be deleted as you suggest. The dishes that are supposed to be Gambian are not, they are Senegalese. Pendere1 (talk) 07:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm not saying the latter version is perfect! I do prefer the status quo ante over total removal. It seems you're the only proponent of your version, and I think it's very unlikely that I'll change my mind on it. If there were multiple high-quality sources saying explicitly "there is no Gambian cuisine", I suppose I'd reconsider. Otherwise, I don't have much to add. Please don't revert back to your version unless it's clear that others support it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The others have admitted that they don't know but I do. Yassa and Domoda are Senegalese dishes so it would be more than appropriate to put them on the Senegal page than Gambia because it doesn't belong here. Also refrain from telling me what I may or may not edit, just because you moderate this site does not mean you are abusing those rights. If you and the others claim things about a country that are completely false then that will be corrected. I´m from there and know what I´m talking about, why would you forbid me to write about something I know about at the expense of you, who know nothing. Pendere1 (talk) 02:08, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

The cuisine of Gambia is the food cooked there now. It will be shared across borders and cultures, as all cuisines are. CMD (talk) 14:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I said the same yassa is prepared in many countries outside of Senegal, these are Senegalese dishes not Gambian. If yassa is Gambian for the sole reason of being prepared there so it yassa the food of Ivory Coast, Mali and so on because it is prepared there as well and of course its not. Stop deflecting. Pendere1 (talk) 15:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Pendere1: Perhaps you have a different understanding of the meaning of the word cuisine than I do. There is nothing about a cuisine which says it can't originate in or share things with other countries. It does mean that there is something unique about that place, so every place has a unique cuisine, even if it is made up of dishes from other places.

There is no doubt in my mind that you know more about Gambian food than I, but I think you are misunderstanding what it means to say that a place "doesn't actually have its own cuisine". Thank you, SchreiberBike | ⌨  02:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Redundancy in "Etymology" section

The "Etymology" section would be a lot cleaner and easier to read without so many redundancies. Most of the information in the section is repeated elsewhere in the same section with only minor differences in wording. For example, the information about the country being named after the river is stated four times throughout different paragraphs. I suspect that contributors have been simply appending their research to the section without taking the time to make sure their contributions are properly integrated with the existent content. Nom de vileplume (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC)