Talk:The Eternaut/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Cambalachero (talk · contribs) 19:51, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Jaguarnik (talk · contribs) 18:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Would like to take on this review. Jaguarnik (talk) 18:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Overall:

The article looks good, but a few issues need to be addressed before passing. As I am a new reviewer, I will also have a more experienced reviewer check this review for me, to make sure that I addressed all criteria and gave a fair review.

Prose comments:

• Oesterheld made a remake in 1969, with art of Alberto Breccia and a higher political tone. change "higher" to "more", "more overt" might also work; change "art of" to "art by"Y
• After many failed attempts to make cinematic adaptations, Netflix will release The Eternaut, a miniseries based on the comic, starring Ricardo Darín as the lead character. change to "Netflix announced the release of a miniseries in 2020 based on the comic, starring Ricardo Darín as the lead character." You can wikilink "miniseries based on the comic" to The Eternaut (TV series).Y
• Additionally, the body needs a source confirming that Darín is involved in the new series, as currently all the body says is that Álex de la Iglesia expressed interest in making a series with Darín, while the lead says that Darín is definitely involved.Y
• It was written by Héctor Germán Oesterheld, author of all the comics in the anthology, and had arts of Francisco Solano López. change "had arts of" to "was illustrated by"Y
• Solano López had been working with Oesterheld in the comic "Rolo, el marciano adoptivo" - change "in" to "on", consider adding the English translation in parenthesisY
• the plots were written on the fly during publication - remove "on the fly" per MOS:IDIOM, something like "the plots were improvised" would be betterY
• Oesterheld met Lito Fernández in the early 1970s and proposed to him to work on a sequel set in La Plata. This needs rephrasing; either remove "to him to" or change "proposed to" to "invited"Y
• Oesterheld and Fernández gathered a lot of information about the city, and even flew in a helicopter above it to take photos and brainstorm ideas. - rephrase to remove "even", remove "a lot of"Y
• In 2008, director Lucrecia Martel was summoned for a film adaptation of The Eternaut. summoned doesn't sound good here, maybe rephrase as "invited to work on".Y
• She worked on the script for a year and a half, which would take place in the present day, but the Oesterheld family considered it strayed too far from the source material, the producers stepped down and the project went stagnant. Split into two sentences - "source material. The producers stepped down..."Y
• it was written by Alberto Ongaro, with arts by Oswal, Mario Morhain, and Carlos Meglia. - change to "with illustrations by Oswal..."Y
• Alfredo Scutti, director of Ediciones Record, proposed to Pez, artist from the Fierro magazine, to work with it. change to "an artist". "propose to" is almost always about marriage, so the verb should be changed to something like "offered" or "invited". Y I've also modified it a bit; if you disagree, feel free to modify it as you like.
• He proposed to the writer Juan Sasturain to work together with his protégé - "invited" in place of "proposed to"Y
• First it was proposed to the newspaper Clarín...Then it was proposed to the newspaper Página 12 - change "proposed to" to "offered to"Y
• The alien is in turn also controlled by aliens that he did not name; later referred to as just "Them". change "did" to "does"; additionally, the article should consistently refer to the aliens as either "Them" or "Ellos"Y
• They discover that the beetles, and other survivors turned into automatons by a similar device, were controlled by an alien known as "Hand", because of their hands with several fingers. is it Hand that has multiple hands or the automatons that have hands?Y
• Favalli, Pablo and Mosca allow themselves to be captured and turned into automatons so that Salvo and his family can escape, they seize a spaceship and Salvo accidentally turns on a time machine while randomly pressing buttons.Y Did I forget a comment here? Anyway there's no issues now.
• They blew up the dome with "them" and escape; - Them should be capitalizedY
• They are decimated by giant beasts known as "Gurbos", and only Salvo, Favalli and Franco survive... Favalli, Pablo and Mosca allow themselves to be captured and turned into automatons so that Salvo and his family can escape. What were Elena and Martita doing during the fight with the aliens?Y - this was addressed, and it is clear now where Elena and Martita were.
• The plot should be consistent with tenses - I fixed what I saw; I don't see any further issues with that.
• Critics believe Oesterheld was writing an anti-war comic, or an allegory of class struggle. - which critics?Y
• Tom Shapira from The Comics Journal says that, although there are frequent in-story references to Robinson Crusoe, he found the story more similar to Moby-Dick I don't get that feeling from reading what Shapira writes - "for all that the book evokes Robinson Crusoe in its narration (writer Héctor Germán Oesterheld was quite the fan) I couldn’t help but think about Moby Dick." This sounds to me not like "The story is more similar to Moby Dick" but like "The story reminds me of both Robinson Crusoe and Moby Dick". I would rewrite the statement, maybe something like "Tom Shapira of The Comics Journal compared The Eternaut to Moby Dick"? Y addressed.
• Tom Shapira also pointed some flaws of the story, such as the presence of flying saucers that make it look dated. change "point out" to "criticize" per MOS:SAID, "some flaws" can be changed to "some aspects" Y
• He also pointed out the lack of relevant female characters, as Elena and Martita had no actual weight in the plot save as reminders for the protagonist of the family he longs for. change "point out" to "criticize", "as Elena and Martita..." can be changed to "stating that Elena and Martita..."
• He also pointed that the story was initially published in serialized form, and although it can be read with little problem as a single story, there are several scenes of characters showing surprise, at the moments when the original publication likely ended the chapters. This doesn't make any sense. The source seems to criticize more the over-reliance on cliffhangers or shock moments.>Y I've modified it a bit more; if you disagree, feel free to modify it.
• At the time, Aristarain said that the only way to produce the film would be in English, given it would cost at least US$10–15 million and American actors would be conditional to get the necessary funds from American production companies, but "that wouldn't be the correct way" because he considered Argentine culture an integral part of The Eternaut. In 1995, there was a miniseries project led by an important TV network from Buenos Aires, with special effects in charge of computer animation company Aicon. A preliminary contract had been signed with a major Hollywood studio. This is fine, but it's attributed to the wrong source. Source 15 doesn't say anything about either of those things - it's source 13 that state this.
• I changed mentions of Elsa to "Oesterheld de Sánchez" per MOS:SURNAME.
• She started a judicial case to annull the contract, as she considered later that it was a mistake and her problems did not let her understand what she was doing. I would phrase it as "she felt later that she had made a mistake and had not understood what she was doing".Y

Source spotcheck:

• Alex Leibovich (April 10, 2024). "La historia de Hora Cero, la revista que dio origen a El Eternauta" [The history of Hora Cero, the magazine that gave birth to The Eternaut] (in Spanish). Clarín. Retrieved June 26, 2024.

Y

• "Las grandes películas que nunca veremos" [Great films we will never see]. Página 12 (in Spanish). 20 May 2007. Archived from the original on 11 February 2021. Retrieved 23 June 2023.

Y

• "La historia que nunca se pudo adaptar: "El Eternauta", ¿llega a Netflix?" [The story that could never be adapted: is "The Eternaut" coming to Netflix?]. El Día (in Spanish). 19 February 2020. Archived from the original on 5 March 2020. Retrieved 24 June 2023.

Source looks fine, but I don't see anything about Martel working on it for a year and a half. statement modified

• Frías, Miguel (1 April 2018). "Alex de la Iglesia: "Quiero hacer El Eternauta con Ricardo Darín"" [Alex de la Iglesia: "I want to make The Eternaut with Ricardo Darín"]. Clarín (in Spanish). Archived from the original on 12 May 2023. Retrieved 24 June 2023.

Y

• Sebastian Aguilera (July 24, 2016). "El Eternauta ganó un Premio Eisner" [The Eternaut won an Eisner Award] (in Spanish). La Gaceta. Retrieved June 28, 2024.

Y

• Gustavo Torres Roggerone (April 27, 2020). "El Eternauta" [The Eternaut] (in Spanish). FM Agora. Retrieved June 26, 2024.

I have doubts about the reliability of this source. It's a radio site that I wasn't able to find info about on other sites. Can a different source be found? Ysource removed

• "Fleetway artist - Alberto Breccia". www.dandare.info.

I was unable to access this site or find any information about the site online; I have doubts about this site's reliability. Can a different source be found?Y source removed

• Patricia Blanco (July 25, 2018). "La Corte Suprema le otorga los derechos de "El Eternauta" a los herederos de Oesterheld, desaparecido en la dictadura" [The Supreme Court grants the rights of "The Eternaut" to the heirs of Oesterheld, disappeared during the dictatorship] (in Spanish). A24.

Source itself looks fine, but doesn't mention anything about his grandchildren, even though it's used to support the statement that only his wife and grandchildren survived. I am aware his grandchildren survived, but the source used to support that statement should mention it.Y statement modified

• "¿Qué pasa con "El Eternauta"?: la adaptación de la historieta se retrasa y hay misterio" [What is going on with "The Eternaut"?: the comic book adaptation is delayed and shrouded in mystery]. El Día (in Spanish). 20 September 2022. Archived from the original on 28 September 2022. Retrieved 24 June 2023.

Y

Copyvio check:

• Earwig at the moment cannot use the search engine to check for plagiarism. Doesn't flag any copyvio from the sources used. Y

Broad in coverage:

• I think the article could use more analysis of the comic's story and its themes. It's mentioned multiple times that the 1969 reboot of the comic was more overtly political, and I see that the Reception section has some analysis of the story and its themes, so already a good start. If needed, I can find some sources through the Wikipedia Library.
• If possible, more about the legacy and reputation of the comic in Argentina; reception of the comic when it was published and reception now could be good.
• For example, could work... I am advised to not contribute too much to the article myself, but here is a source you could use (but not obliged to), I think it could be helpful in adding more analysis/reception to the article.

References

Stable:

• pass. Y

Image check:

• The infobox image has the appropriate non-free image usage rationale. Y
• Copyright law in Argentina says [copyright expires 25 years after creation and 20 years after publication]. The first criterion is fulfilled, but information is needed on the second criterion, as it's not stated when it was originally published.
• Image of Solano Lopez has been checked for use license, Y

@Jaguarnik, @Cambalachero: As a (slightly) more experienced reviewer, I've checked over your work. Also, some small formatting changes. Reconrabbit 15:44, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

• One prose issue that wasn't noted: and although he was still interested in science fiction, he asked for a story with less fantasy. What is the intended meaning here? That less fantasy is more science fiction, or less fantasy is a contradiction to his science fiction interest, or...?
• I checked the same sources where you found issues (El Día, FMAgora, dandare.info and A24) and come to the same conclusions:
  • El Día is useful but as you state it does not say specifically how long Martel worked on the script.
  • FMAgora is a self-professed biased source/advocacy group. It isn't clear what their editorial standards are, so it seems marginally useful but overall better if a different source is used.
  • dandare.info is a self-published website by 2 people who are non-experts in the field (see their About Us). Presumably the info on Alberto Breccia is available elsewhere.
  • A24 makes no mention of his grandsons, only his surviving wife.
• Broadness: I agree that there could be some description of what made the 1969 reboot more overtly political. Analysis should be limited to what is in the reception, however, unless detailed analysis has already been done by others that is independent of that. Reception closer to the time of original publication would be great if possible to find; there is already a lot about its retrospective reception.

Overall a great review. I recommend using strikethrough (<s></s>) around the comments that have been fixed to make progress obvious without deleting things. I'll keep watching this page. Reconrabbit 15:44, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Done. As for thing about fantasy and sci-fi, sci-fi works have varying levels of fantasy. There's soft science fiction, where basically anything goes and no detailed explanations are required; and there's hard science fiction that tries to stick to real science as much as possible (see also Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness). Solano López was asking to move from a really soft sci-fi comic to a harder one. Granted, the Eternaut is clearly soft sci-fi when considered in itself, but "Rolo..." was even softer. In any case, that's what he was asking, and what we should report. If he really got it or not is probably a discussion for another time (and perhaps another web page instead of Wikipedia). Cambalachero (talk) 18:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

The sentence would make more sense if it was a direct quote from López (translated of course). Otherwise it's unclear if we are making this assumption on behalf of the artist that he meant to work on more of a hard science fiction story. Reconrabbit 22:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Done. Note that he does not mention hard or soft science fiction as such (and neither does the article), that's just an explanation among us. Cambalachero (talk) 13:59, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

@Jaguarnik, is there something else missing? Cambalachero (talk) 13:37, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Cambalachero Sorry for the delay. It looks like everything is more or less addressed; I still think it would be good to have an analysis of the work itself + themes but it's not necessary for GA, as far as I know. @Reconrabbit Any thoughts? Jaguarnik (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Information also on the date of publication of File:Oesterheld hora cero.jpg would be good - it seems likely that it was published over 20 years ago so it would pass into public domain, but I can't find any date on the original publication. Jaguarnik (talk) 17:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

The info is already there, "Hora Cero Semanal del 4 de septiembre de 1957" (Hora Cero Semanal, September 4, 1957). No mention of who took the photo, but that's not needed, only publication date. Cambalachero (talk) 18:44, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

If it was published in Hora Cero, no other questions, just waiting on reconrabbit's feedback. Jaguarnik (talk) 19:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't have any further feedback, thorough work was done here. Reconrabbit 21:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Cambalachero congrats on the Good Article. Jaguarnik (talk) 23:01, 17 July 2024 (UTC)