Talk:Tanzimat

Comments

Is the Tanzimat Fermani also known as the Gulhane Decree? 144.89.180.225 (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, i dont know the English words but yes it is also called "Gülhane Hatt-ı Hümayunu" becasue it is 1st declared at Gulhane Park.

Where is info on the impact of the tanzimat in places like palestine?

I am looking for any info on the Ottoman Land Law of 1858 and am somewhat shocked that there is nothing here about it. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 18:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

topics that tanzimat covered need corrections

For example non-muslims allowed to army in 1826 with abolishing of janissary system and many nonmuslims opposed this so in 1839 with tanzimat nonmuslims were given the privalege of paying tax rather than serving in the military whereas every muslim citizens had to serve 4 years. OzhanTR (talk) 21:00, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Source

Specific dates and names available at "Tanzimat" entry in First encyclopaedia of Islam: 1913-1936 (pp. 650s). — LlywelynII 19:51, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Kapudan Pasha

Regnal Chronologies has the Kapudan Pasha pushed out of his province and replaced by a wali and vilayet structure in 1848, which seems early. Does anyone have a source for the reform of the navy? — LlywelynII 19:51, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Tanzimat

This entire section and contribution appears to be ahistorical - revisionist history provided by FaithMatters and Ishtaq Hussain. He has no expertise on this matter and his paper on the faith matters website makes clear he is opposing political movements so his paper is polemical rather than WP:NPOV. A rewrite may need to be done. 182.188.184.190 (talk) 13:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/14/62/10/PDF/LafiEminonuOttomanReforms.pdf

  Triggered by \bhalshs\.archives-ouvertes\.fr on the global blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.—cyberbot II ^Notify_Online 15:22, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Grammar in French during Ottoman times

• Strauss, Johann (2010). "A Constitution for a Multilingual Empire: Translations of the Kanun-ı Esasi and Other Official Texts into Minority Languages". In Herzog, Christoph; Malek Sharif (eds.). The First Ottoman Experiment in Democracy. Wurzburg: Orient-Institut Istanbul. p. 21-51. (info page on book at Martin Luther University) // CITED: p. 39 (PDF p. 41/338).

...said that, during Ottoman times, the grammar usage "Le Tanzimat" (instead of "Les Tanzimat") was common. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:56, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

On citations

We do not need three citations for a part of a single paragraph and no citations for whole sections. See WP:OVERCITE and WP:CITE. —¿philoserf? (talk) 18:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The Ottomans decriminalized homosexuality?

Please read this article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32069182/

In 1858 they used a French Penal Code which spoke of the punishment for public homosexuality. This can be interpreted as homosexual relation being revealed in public which isn't that controversial as adultery is also spoken of as being punishable if revealed in public (due to the requirement that 4 people needed) in Islamic law. That is not to say Ottoman society would not punish it it came out in public. I would rephrase the use of 'decriminalizing homosexuality' because homosexual were liable to prosection if found proven to have done so (a burden of proof which admittedly was very difficult) Asimz123 (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/IbneKhan01/status/1643289630433763333/photo/1 (This was the conclusion if you cannot access the article). Notworthy is that Suleyman's qanun only imposed fines for public/private homosexuality whereas in 1858 heavier punishments (imprisonment for three months) were imposed. When you compare this seems to indicate that the Tanzimat reforms were heavier for homosexuals which is in line with Western trajectory which theTanzimat sought to emulate.

The fact that punishments on homosexuals were harsher in the tanzimat period means we need to get rid of this idea that the Ottomans decriminzalized homsoexuality as it is misleading (or at least add qualification that no mention of private homosexuality referenced and it would be helpful to add penalties are harsher so people don't misunderstand it to be a liberal period) Asimz123 (talk) 15:49, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Remove Western influenced

There has been an increasing body of literature which stresses the Islamic influences of the Tanzimat reforms, the influence of religious clerics and figures on the sultan (iirc the Bektashi or Nasqhabandi but I would have to check).

These most influential source pushing this view is "The Islamic Roots of the Gülhane Rescript" by Abu-Manneh. I think this should be adapted to reflect this. Genabab (talk) 13:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

That would be pushing a selective bias POW. Wikipedia does not choose sides. --Aciram (talk) 14:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Aciram But I am not saying we should change it from Western reforms to Islamic reforms. To reflect the debate, perhaps just saying "reforms" Genabab (talk) 14:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

It is established historiography that the Tanzimat mainly imported from the West, particularly France, and it's also true there was an Islamic element to it as well. So I don't think we should remove "Western influenced", but definitely incorporate interesting points into the article, or there can be a whole section dedicated to Islamic inspiration to the Tanzimat. Benlittlewiki (talk) 14:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I think that is a good compromise Genabab (talk) 14:31, 10 October 2024 (UTC)