Talk:Syrian civil war/Archive 52

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Archive 52

Wiki Education assignment: Children's Literature and Popular Culture

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2024 and 7 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Auctuk (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Auctuk (talk) 16:14, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

New fights around Aleppo

https://levant24.com/news/2024/11/cmos-repelling-the-aggression-operation-gains-ground-against-assad-regime-forces/ 2A02:3032:14:3509:C85A:47D1:3E37:124F (talk) 14:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Map needs to be updated

https://syria.liveuamap.com/ Arye Bernshtein (talk) 23:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Aleppo

The battles in Aleppo should be added 88.236.189.163 (talk) 10:50, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Hama

Hama has been retaken by SAA map should be changed Mayukh Mitra 123 (talk) 21:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Are there multiple WP:RS for intra-Syrian-govt fighting/attempted coup d'etat in Damascus?

Question started at: Talk:Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)#Any sources for intra-Syrian-govt fighting in Damascus? Boud (talk) 00:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Map Accuracy and Projection

We need to way out the current map and wait for things to settle, as it seems that the Syrian Interim Government under the Free Syrian Army occupies many areas around the Lake strategic eastern of Aleppo, as they also carried out the operations to occupy it. It is in no way deemable to assume this is part of the HTS (in white). The sources must be syria.liveuamap.com, but they are coloring all the new occupied Territories the same color, so we do not know the exact borders of which group owns what. DerEchteJoan (talk) 22:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to add to that, that the Syrian Free Army controls areas west of the lake aswell, which the HTS did not take. 79.247.24.147 (talk) 08:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Currently they control the whole lake Sabkhat al-Jabbul, and areas surrounding it. In the current version of the map, HTS and the Syrian Army still control it 79.247.24.147 (talk) 09:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Still is severely outdated; as uncertain as things are right now, we need to change the detailed map to reflect what we do know is happening. LordOfWalruses (talk) 03:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. This is one of the most complicated armed conflicts, not much is known. Things need to settle out. DerEchteJoan (talk) 05:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

So, currently syria.livuamap.com is reporting, that the HTS and the NLF (part of the SNA) are currently both attacking Assad Forces in the same places, which must implicate joint control. We need to find a solution to this problem, as it is impossible under the current circumstances to show accurate projections of HTS and SNA control. One solution may be, that we group the Rebel Forces together. 89.244.83.56 (talk) 16:00, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

We could do that, or we could have a separate coloration for “HTS-SNA joint control.” LordOfWalruses (talk) 20:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Update the map!!!!!

There is a need to include hama 109.53.212.182 (talk) 15:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

“Territorial changes” section outdated

The source is from the beginning of 2023 and major changes have been made since the rebel offensive of 2024: an updated source should be found for this section (if possible). LordOfWalruses (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Support Viceskeeni2 (talk) 05:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Just wanted to express support for this change. I was going to raise this issue myself until I saw it had already been raised. Editors please update this ASAP in light of recent events. 2A00:23C8:90A:1601:C55F:48DA:5A82:8E4E (talk) 17:43, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Color changes for southern Syria rebels

The magenta colors don’t match the other colors in the key (not even the purple one, which is for reconciled rebels and not ones that are still fighting the government), and green for the southern rebels may not be accurate since the SNA is currently in the north only. (I may be totally wrong on that though.) As such, new colors should be added into the legend and/or the southern rebels (that are currently in green) should be changed to a new color on the map.LordOfWalruses (talk) 20:34, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Requesting changing the colours of the free army and/or the interim goverment on the map table

The two groups colours on the map given by the table are both mildly different shades of green and they are genuinely hard for me to tell the difference. I am having issues seeing the difference then i believe others are too, espically those who may be colour blind. i don't know how to change it, i would if i could so instead i am asking that one or both be changed. I propose changing the Syrian Interim Government's (SNA) colours to blue as it would would contrast nicely against the yellow of the AANES and SAAF yellow and red respectively 92.236.211.53 (talk) 22:35, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I recognise your issue which may affect many people. My issue with the article is the complete lack of information regarding the involvement of the American " intelligence" community in fomenting trouble in Syria in 2011 and the years preceding this. Spiralwhats in your boxCox (talk) 11:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Black shading over zoomed in map.

When you click on the map in the infobox showing the War Map, some black lines appear over parts of the map that aren't there before. This could be because it's an SVG and chooses not to show those lines until you zoom in, I don't know.

But it's still very strange and I'm not sure what it's supposed to be or if it's even intentional, especially since these black lines even go over Raqqa, which is firmly under SDF control.

My best guess is that it represents renewed ISIS activity, but if so, this hasn't been mentioned anywhere else I can find on any Wikipedia article, so for that to only appear on the map is strange.

And either way, the fact that they onlt appear when the image is clicked on is very strange and I think that should be fixed. Taiyaki Schizo (talk) 10:21, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

• There is also a gray circle to the west of the upper corner of the "D" in Deir ez-Zor. What is that? 104.171.53.110 (talk) 00:53, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

It’s ISIS activity. Ambushes, raids, etc. It’s not really mentioned anywhere except for the SDF advances in “Deir ez-Zoir. ISIS there is a third side of the belligerents. 71.236.127.123 (talk) 18:32, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Wrong color for Southern Operations Room?

Is it just me or is the color listed for the southern operations room on the color code different than the one used on the map? Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikibox Map

Someone has replaced the normal high quality wikibox map with the LiveUA one, which in addition to having unconfirmed and incorrect information, is also generally low quality. People should wait for the real map to update. Reverting edits doesn't seem to be able to change this back to the normal map though. MegaZeroX7 (talk) 19:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Not sure why they thought that'd be a good idea Colin dm (talk) 19:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I just reverted the edit. haha169 (talk) 19:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

can somebody make the grey lands back to red again Sanad real (talk) 22:04, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

the map is more difficult to read and understand like this especially since the cities are colored red Sanad real (talk) 22:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure that’s really a good idea: I may be totally wrong on this, but I believe the grey parts of the map are where Assad is technically in control but has no real ability to exert power. Given how much this indicates the severity of Assad’s downfall, I think including this in the map is not a bad idea. LordOfWalruses (talk) 22:41, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

i know but it's simpler for readers to see one color for assad's forces instead of being confused on what the gray is Sanad real (talk) 22:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I get what you’re saying. Maybe we could add a separate color for “loose SAA control” or “uncontrolled.” Perhaps even some sheet over the red (similar to the gray stripe sheet used to show ISIS operations). LordOfWalruses (talk) 23:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

yeah maybe a lighter shade of red for loose control and a darker one for strong control Sanad real (talk) 23:26, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Map needs update

There have been many new rebel advancements that haven’t been included in the map (especially advanced by the Southern Front and the Syrian Free Army). This should be changed as soon as possible. LordOfWalruses (talk) 19:35, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Not just that, the whole outcome and territorial changes need amendments too...the developments right now have to be measured in hours and minutes instead of days and weeks due to Assad's regime collapse, and this time it won't be as lucky as 2012 when it was able to battle and launch multiple offensives and counteroffensives against the rebels. Bf0325 (talk) 01:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The percentages of control need to be updated.

Possibly, after we know what happens in Damascus. NesserWiki (talk) 17:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Exactly, I just raised that in a newer section, and we likely have to also change the outcome too should Assad's regime finally collapse---rumors and news report that some high-ranking Syrian officials may want to defect to the rebels now. Bf0325 (talk) 01:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Territorial Changes etc needs update

The current description of the titled stopped "as of Jan 1, 2023" whereas the ongoing Syrian rebels offensives simply drastically change the whole outcome, and Assad's regime may be numbered in days or hours as we speak.

Should Assad's regime finally collapse, not only we've to change the whole percentages of territorial changes attributed to HTS-led coalition, southern groups, and Kurdish's Rojava, but also the final outcome itself. Bf0325 (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, I think the "Territorial Changes" section of the infobox should be removed altogether, as rapid changes have been made. As to the case of hypothetical Syrian Opposition/Rojava victory, we'll have to wait until the outcome to decide that. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 02:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Now there're reports that Assad already fled. Bf0325 (talk) 03:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Status and date

If Assad has confirmed to have fled, is the status now a Rebel victory? Does this mean the civil war is over or should we keep the status and date as is? 2001:56A:7956:9000:7080:2590:97EC:DE15 (talk) 04:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Fix the date, 8/12/2024 the end of the war

Fix the date, 8/12/2024 the end of the war 2001:8F8:1B2F:478C:A5CE:60AF:67E6:5DEA (talk) 04:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I think we should wait and see if everyone accepts HTS or there are groups who would fight HTS. All of this ought to be cleared in few days. DataCrusade1999 (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

if there is no agreement between HTS and others, I think it would be wise to declare a "split" between the civil war before the fall of Assad and the time after. AsyarSaronen (talk) 04:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not clear that the coast will be taken over by HTS (or another rebel group) peacefully.--Brian Dell (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Map Needs Updated

The map needs updated severely because of recent battle changes. Also, can the gray areas be colored. There is no reason to have unclaimed land since all of it is either controlled by the rebels or the Kurds. 206.21.104.67 (talk) 14:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Date Phase

Syria civil war has or rather had(?) gone through very long time - 14 yrs and recent offense done by rebels ascend the fall of Assad dynasty after few years of stalemate from 2020 to 2024. i would propose the adding of Two Phases: first one from 2011 to 2020 and second is from 2024 to present day as there was no significant fighting from 2020 to 2024 Foxy Husky (talk) 06:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I think it's too early to tell. We don't know it this is really the end. I sure hope so, but, it's too early. Gue101 (talk) 08:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gue101 true.... but we recently caught attention from syria when the rebels AKA democrat Syrians renew the civil war and took Aleppo and since then overthrew the government. so maybe can consider this as 2nd Phase of the date(3rd or 4th? whatever the phase yall think is)? Foxy Husky (talk) 13:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We'd have to follow the sources, but, two (or three, or four) phases sounds reasonable.

Still, I'd wait a few days. Gue101 (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

just think of Chinese Civil War.... the 22-year-log-war is splited into two phases: one for pre-invasion by Japan and one for post-invasion and the one in-between is either stalemate or temporary end. so Syria civil war last(ed) for 14 years which indeed very long, and the statemate lasted from 2020 to 2024 so... we can probably split overall date into 2 phase (or 3 if ISIS-uprising is considered): pre-stalemate and post-stalemate Foxy Husky (talk) 13:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

“Ongoing”

what will have to happen for it be appropriate to say the war is over. is their precedent for this? Cannolorosa (talk) 15:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps wait until a stable government is formed. Syrian PM has expressed willingness to cooperate, so I'd expect this to happen relatively soon. WP:RS will likely follow suit and call it the end of war, then we can add that. Brandmeister^talk 16:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Zabezt you can talk here to reach a consensus. currently it's to early no tell what is going to happen so the heading should not be changed.

Can someone update the map?

The last Assad Loyalist pocket in Jableh on the coast is currently being captured and the remaining diehards wiped out as of about 45 minutes ago.

The remaining grey zone has been captured mostly by the HTS, with some proclamations by the USA for them not to cross the river or attack Kurdish positions. (So there's clearly a distinction being made between the more directly American backed forces out of Al-Tanf and the South, and the Turkish backed SNA and semi-Turkish backed SSG).

Also the Syrian National Army finally began their full scale assault yesterday on the Manbij Pocket and have captured about half of it from the Kurds. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:5582:C3B0:BBD3:AB82 (talk) 20:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

The syrian civil war has ended 8 Dec 24 Asssad regime has collapsed Syrianheart45 (talk) 07:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - Assad's regime falling from power does not mean that the civil war has ended. There is not yet evidence that everyone left in Syria is going to get along. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 08:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Turkish-backed Syrian National Army is literally attacking Manbij as I write this.[1] It's unfortunate to say so, but the war is not over yet. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

If there is a continuation it will be an insurgency and maybe a new war, but this war has ended with the fall of the capital just like in Vietnam and Afghanistan. If there is an announcement that the war has ended then definitely it must be added to the article, we just need an official announcement, if they cite December 8 as the day then so it would be. Just need an official announcement. Dilbaggg (talk) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Which source says the Civil war is over? This war has many belligerents. Fighting has not ended. 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Question

Should we make an article on the remnants of the Ba'ath Syria, and the remaining army in Latakia? PopularGames (talk) 04:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Those are Russian military bases Waleed (talk) 00:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

How to edit infobox

i don't know how to do it for this article since it does not function as normal can somebody please tell me Sanad real (talk) 22:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This Template:Syrian civil war infobox, click on the wikilink and you'll go to the infobox page there you can edit it normally Waleed (talk) 00:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

thanks Sanad real (talk) 01:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (2)

2001:5A8:457D:B00:0:0:0:1003 (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Delete a space before (Islamic State)as of currently, the word is in two lines

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. cyberdog958^Talk 02:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2024

Syrian civil war is over 64.43.50.15 (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. cyberdog958^Talk 02:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we add Israel’s invasion of Syria?

I've heard that Israel is invading the southern parts of Syria, since it's related to the war, should we add it? Superyassi362 (talk) 18:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Yes, and now that Assad is overthrown the belligerents and their leaders should be summarized in the infobox, including Israel. --Plumber (talk) 20:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  Are there sources to say the civil war is definitely over? 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Currently no. There is still fighting in the north between Turkish backed forces and the SDF while the other now former rebel groups (as definitionally speaking they aren't rebels anymore) are now trying to consolidate power. It is possible they will fight each other over the future of Syria or spill over into Lebanon to fight Hezbollah. Hinga toka (talk) 04:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The area North of Aleppo is SNA, not anyone else

Same issue as in Manbij except worse as they’ve held that for nearly two weeks now.

Did someone just take one look at Livemaps color scheme and not check the sidebar? They kind of blanket draw the opposition in one color and mark everything post November 26 that isn’t SDF Kurd Yellow in the same green. Probably due to being caught off guard their Syria templates are old.

We don’t do this for Ukraine, this is sloppy. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:22:76C3:528F:EBCF (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. We shouldnt lump all apposition into one colour Mayukh Mitra 123 (talk) 18:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually I agree, it’s confusing and it makes terrorists look like the good guys. Zyxrq (talk) 18:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Even with the transitional govt (like 24 hours old btw), it is way more informative to show which rebel factions control what territory. PequodOnStationAtLZ (talk) 19:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Why are the other rebel groups shown as controlling Manbij?

It’s the SNA doing it who you have colored differently.

Livemap colors all rebels gains the same so I know it looks that way, but the sidebar info clearly states it’s the SNA doing it.

(the current map is dumb btw, just because Livemap took the lazy route and lumped everything on their map doesn’t mean we should. Just use the sources in the side info bar, the prior version from yesterday was fine) 68.144.93.30 (talk) 16:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

(the current map is dumb btw, just because Livemap took the lazy route and lumped everything on their map doesn’t mean we should. Just use the sources in the side info bar, the prior version from yesterday was fine)

Seconded. We should revert to Yesterday's map

Also Manbij should be coloured SNA Mayukh Mitra 123 (talk) 16:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Like I’m not against lumping them together in a couple months when they actually finalize agreements, but at the moment it’s paper thin and we saw how that went in Libya.(the 2020 agreements still never really fully happened even if no war broke out).

Especially since the Southern Front and Revolution Commando Army are pretty closely linked, but the Salvation Government less so and they still use a different flag. Hold off on that.

But regardless the map as it stands is factually wrong due to Manbij. Livemap considers SNA part of the opposition and marks all their gains beyond November 26 lines part of the vague green ‘opposition blob’. The SNA are the ones fighting the SDF there and I think that screw up is proof we can’t just copy Livemap 1-1, use the sources in the sidebar as we did prior.

I also really want an actual look into the ISIS situation. This is starting to remind me of the infamous Yemen Al Queda blob that stayed on maps because of circular sourcing and it having been captured years prior slipping through. Some of these maps have been mostly unchanged since the conventional defeat of Isis in 2018 and some might have not actually meant those specific spots and just been shorthanding and simplifying “ISIS Remnants in this general area” 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:22:76C3:528F:EBCF (talk) 17:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. People jumping the gun hard trying to portray every rebel faction sans the sna and rojava as some unified government. PequodOnStationAtLZ (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Would you like some more useful sources?

Hello! Unfortunately, I'll have no time at all to help you update this and other pages with more information on the offensive and the fall of the regime; however, I just wanted to leave you some useful sources you can use to add more details and links yourself.

Obviously, we've already got plenty of good live timelines to choose from, including The Guardian, The New York Times, the BBC, El País and Le Monde.

However, I think you should check out the material from Il Post and Al Jazeera, too: the former outlet has put together a very on-point timeline, with lots of references to other newspaper and social media content, as well several in-depth articles like this one, while the latter has created a bunch of maps and graphics that could be quite useful as Creative Commons content that could be uploaded on Wikimedia portals.

Let me know if this helps! Oltrepier (talk) 20:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Can someone give me the source of the "No man's land territitory"?

I am just going to try dive in further to see if it is 100% accurate as we already took away a bug chunk of what used to be called "unclaimed land". That Inverclyde Guy (talk) 08:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

You’re not the only who has questioned this decision to leave unclaimed land. There is no reason to have unclaimed land listed because it has been held by the opposition since yesterday. 2620:6D:C000:1001:117E:80D4:BB60:2991 (talk) 09:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

That is exactly what I think. It just feels as if we're just putting unclaimed land for the sake of it in a way. That Inverclyde Guy (talk) 09:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• TBH, the sourcing of the map has always been problematic. It seems to be based in large part on Twitter updates from sources that are usually reliable but many of which wouldn't meet WP:RS. The same goes for other conflict-maps (e.g., the old Afghanistan one). FOARP (talk) 13:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Being overly reliant on a news source to mention everything in a conflict like this is how you end up with stuff like Al Queda holding a huge blob of desert in Yemen for years after they lost it in maps 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:22:76C3:528F:EBCF (talk) 17:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  If you can't reliably source something, the option is just not to have it, not to source it to up-to-the-date but unreliable stuff. FOARP (talk) 21:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Stop editing the Map every 2 minutes. Also make the "Syrian Opposition Map" linked to the map on this article

It should not be happening, there are so many reverts that HTS controls all of Syria while they don't. They only govern a small fraction. It needs to be waited on how the territories will be deald after a stable government comes around, but for now LEAVE IT AS IT IS DerEchteJoan (talk) 19:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

There may be flaws with how the map is edited, but we can fix that and improve our methods as we go along. It’s still good to keep the map consistently updated to keep it up to date with the rapidly evolving information of the situation. LordOfWalruses (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I agree. We can keep the map updated without merging all the different rebel factions together. Easily the most glaring issue with that is the green blob seemed to show the tranistional govt attacking manbij when it was actually the sna. PequodOnStationAtLZ (talk) 19:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Syrian civil war

Did the Syrian civil war end with the fall of Assad? Can we consider the conflict against the Kurds as the second Syrian civil war? 89.155.47.76 (talk) 21:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Basically, the civil war is over. The Ba'athist government has fallen and Syrian Transitional Government (STG) has seized power. Territories outside the control of STG are under the control of foreign occupation forces of states like United States, State of Israel, Turkiye, etc. Conflict or war against occupation forces are not regarded as civil war. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 21:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

That would be kind of arbitrary, SNA-SDF fighting has been ungoing for a while with a major escalation in 2019.

In fact, the current Manbij offensive started nearly a week ago when the HTS had only just captured Aleppo.

There's been no distinct time gap. If there's a prolonged period of minimal fighting maybe(1992-1996 Afghanistan war followed that example), but seeing as SNA and SDF fighting that started before Damascus fell is continuing making a split now feels dumb. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 21:49, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I would say the main conflict is already over. However, there are still conflicts going on, such as Operation Dawn of Freedom, the War against the Islamic State, and the 2024 Israeli invasion of Syria. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 21:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

We have offensive operations between SNA and SDF that started over a week ago still ongoing, those aren't suddenly in a different war. We split Libya because there was a gap, we'll need to wait and see for now 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 22:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

agree with comment above, the conflict is continuing. Sm8900 (talk) 22:21, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

SNA part of Syrian Transition Government

SNA must be part of the new Syrian Transition Government 2409:40D0:1035:5797:F1BA:D3F0:B721:FCE9 (talk) 00:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Idk if that’s the best move since the SIG is still its own entity, and the SNA is still in its own war against the SDF. LordOfWalruses (talk) 01:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Image size in infobox

I see some editors (Zabezt) forcing the image size in the infobox by specifying a px value. This is contrary to WP:IMGSIZELEAD. Please revert. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we change the color of the SDF to a more neon color.

With the new colors of the map for the STG and the SNA, the goldenrod yellow of the SDF doesn’t really fit anymore, and I feel like it would fit-in better if it was more of a neon yellow. LordOfWalruses (talk) 01:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

i' be okay with that Sanad real (talk) 05:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Why isn't the status of the Golan Heights not on the map?

It's Syrian land occupied by Israel and the map should reflect that. Charles Essie (talk) 00:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

i agree Sanad real (talk) 05:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

We should go back to the transitional government map

Not only is it much more accurate given how the Syrian rebels have created a temporary provisional government that has assumed control over the country, but it also makes no sense to have the old map with the new legend. LordOfWalruses (talk) 19:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Luckily someone has reverted the legend to match. Considering this transitional government was established within the last day or two, the situation is still fluid enough that it is more informative to present which factions control what territory. PequodOnStationAtLZ (talk) 19:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It's an agreement that's on paper only at the moment and the HTS is notably far less involved(they still have a different flag).

Also it was only because one guy wanted to just copy Livemap verbatim which is dumb as they don't distinguish anything and lumped all the rebel gains together including SNA attacking Majib which made it look like we were saying everyone was.

Current map is fine template was. It needs the grey zone removed, the Manbij offensive by SNA included, and I think we should re-check some of the ISIS stuff to avoid circular sourcing and another Yemeni Al Qaeda situation. Do they actually hold those specific spots or was that one sites shorthand to represent 'ISIS Remnants in Rural Areas' back in 2019 that nobody is checking or verifying anymore. Given even in all this chaos they didn't do anything I have my doubts they have much left 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 19:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Just following the sourcing trail, looks like the grey zone was mostly split between HTS and SDF, SDF might have pulled back from a few spots too or maybe that was misreported. Nothing from the Commando Army, if anything we might be overselling them in that direction.

The SNA has taken most of the Manbij pocket including the city itself. Main supply road was also just captured so I don't expect the SDF to hold in the pocket for long. They've been dealing with issues controlling some new territory elsewhere and especially in Maskanah so keep an eye on that too.

And I couldn't find good sourcing for specific ISIS control anywhere 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 20:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Syrian Transitional government map is more accurate here.

Also, other maps show that Military Operations Command have full military control of areas of the Syrian Transitional Government. (source: https://syria.liveuamap.com/en) Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 21:38, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

i also agree Sanad real (talk) 05:18, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreement between Trump and Putin

Please add to the article Trump's agreement with Putin on the division of spheres of influence, in particular, Ukraine - for Russia, and the Middle East - for the United States. Also, add that many American companies are involved in the extraction of minerals in the Middle East, including oil and gas, the transportation of which to the EU has become possible through Syria thanks to the agreement. 91.210.251.13 (talk) 17:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

What agreement? Rxm1054 (talk) 08:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Can whoever keeps trying to color the map one color stop?

Not only is it objectively wrong with the SNA holdings in North Aleppo and Manbij being given to the wrong side for some reason*(*probably just blindly following Livemap, which had to rush everything when this came out of nowhere and treats all groups except the former Kurds under one color), but it's acting like some brand new agreements on paper that not everyone is on board with are fact and law and there's zero chance of a Libya situation where it never actually happens. 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 22:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Also Military Operations Command is the white faction, mostly HTS, but some of the smaller groups they merged up with in Idilib. It's not everyone.

(On the subject the prior map heavily overstated Revolutionary Commando Army control on both the East and Western Side) 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 22:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

By actually reading the names and checking the sources, it looks like the northern area was actually reached by the Millitary Operations Command(AKA HTS and the smaller groups allied to them), with the Revolutionary Commando Army coming in via the roads to the East originating from Palmyra and getting as far as Douma, and the Southern Operations Command taking the bulk of the Southwestern half of the city and some of the North West corner. They took most of the southern border with Lebanon up until around that little tip piece sticking out, the road coming from north of there is HTS and co.

So lot's of adjustments around Damacus, plus I think just based on the rule of thumb with deserts of splitting it down the middle the Al-Tanf RCA looks too damn large on both sides. I also cannot find a source they control the T3 Pumping Station and nearby helipad at Bayt Al Juhayshal, and the main road to get there is via Arak which the MOC/HTS took so it's more likely to be them, especially seeing as they're the one who advanced towards the river and linked up with the Kurds.

https://imgur.com/h5gDWOX Here's an extremely ugly approximation of what I mean 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:B54A:FB85:2DF1:9AF9 (talk) 22:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

If you’re referring to the map featuring the STG, I feel like that map should stay since that’s the governing body assigned to most of Syria at this moment. LordOfWalruses (talk) 23:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Has the STG been recognized by all the syrian opposition groups? To what capacity does it even exist execpt on paper? ManU9827 (talk) 23:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure, but it’s the closest thing Syria currently has to an official government, and fighting between opposition has mostly ceased (from what I can tell), so I still think it’s the best representation of the situation in Syria. LordOfWalruses (talk) 00:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It hasn't, SNA is currently on the offensive against the SDF 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:9808:6458:F853:30EC (talk) 04:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Well I don’t think the SDF is technically part of the opposition, and none of the other rebel groups have joined the SNA in its offensive. LordOfWalruses (talk) 13:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

If the map fight has settled, some updates

SNA captured the Manbij pocket from SDF.

The boundaries in Damascus area and southeast of Palmyra, especially regarding the RCA, need adjustment 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:48FE:8D7E:C9C0:93B5 (talk) 07:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

SNA attacking towards Kobani now too 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:48FE:8D7E:C9C0:93B5 (talk) 16:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The current colors on the map and in the legend seem to be a mess

We should probably get down to fixing it fast because it's really not a good look for Wikipedia. Dsetaerins (talk) 09:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, the map is currently a mess. Hibernian (talk) 10:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's also outdated. The SNA has taken manbij and the areas around it, so redoing the map should be a priority Willix2025 (talk) 11:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah people on Reddit were posting the merged one yesterday and it caused confusion about who was attacking Manbij.

Manbij is in the SNA control now, they’re also attacking towards Kobani.

Al Tanf brigade holds too much on the map and HTS has more near Damascus 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:48FE:8D7E:C9C0:93B5 (talk) 16:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Dier E Zor SDF command defects to HTS

Should reflect that on the map. Also makes it very obvious they hold the grey zone there 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:48FE:8D7E:C9C0:93B5 (talk) 17:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2024

adding and end date instead of "present" the official end date is 08 december 2024. the day of syria's libration. 31.223.127.138 (talk) 17:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

We need to wait a few weeks or months to see if the conflict dies down, Just because Assad and the Syrian Arab Republic has fallen, it doesn't mean that the whole Civil War has ended. If I recall the SNA has recently launched attacks against an area in the SDF which was continued after the fall of Damascus and the end of the SAR. Wakapoodiaaaa24234 (talk) 18:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Czello ^(music) 18:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)