Talk:Superman (1940s animated film series)

Voices in the Fleischer Series:

Can anyone verify this information? Every online source identifies Bud Collyer and Joan Alexander as the voices of Superman and Lois Lane for the entire Fleischer run, but listening to the voice actors proves that this is not the case.

The voice of Superman for most of the series is not Bud Collyer. Collyer is only heard in the first couple of shorts and replaced thereafter by another actor, one with a pronounced Midwestern drawl that Bud Collyer did not have. I can't tell for certain due to the poor recording, but I think the voice in "Magnetic Telescope" may be a third Superman actor. Julian Noa was only Perry White in the first cartoon (and if I recall correctly, "Electric Earthquake"), but may have provided the voices of the scientist-types in "Mummy Strikes" and "Underground World."

Joan Alexander is usually listed as providing the voice of Lois Lane, but I don't think it's her. I believe Alexander had not become the radio program's permanent Lois by that point, and Lois was played by a number of actresses (including one Rollie Bester) during her brief sporadic appearances in the early radio stories. Regardless, the voice of the Fleischer Lois clearly changes from short to short.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.99.32.5 (talk) 08:45, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

• I can't exactly verify it, but Superman Homepage (a pretty respectable source, and used as an external link in this article) gives a pretty detailed description of the actors and their history with the cartoons [1]. —EatMyShortz 08:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I want to avoid original research, but does Superman vis-à-vis Clark Kent have any dialogue in any of the episodes? kencf0618 (talk) 23:37, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

According to this blog post, there was another voice for Superman. It cites a book by Keith Scott that pulled its source from a headline from (presumably) the Miami Herald. It lists a number of people including the second Superman voice: Lee Royce, an operatic baritone singer who performed at Jimmie's on the Trail and some other nightclubs, who was the straight man to Joe Besser's comedy acts such as in the movie Cuckoorancho, and who apparently at some point was the voice of Bluto (whose name was incorrectly given as 'Bruto' in the article) in the Popeye Cartoons (also made by the Famous Studios). The blog post can be read right here. —47.20.35.146 (talk) 18:54, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Copyright status in Europe

The cartoons may be in the public domain in the USA, but is it so here in Europe? I don't really think so, since laws in here say EVERY work's copyright continues 70 years after the authors' death, which, in the case of the Superman cartoons, have not yet passed. Can anybody give some more information about this? --Mégara (Мегъра) - D. Mavrov 23:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright status on new releases?

I know it says that the cartoons are in the public domain, but I'm unsure on how that affects releases on DVDs. For example, could I copy the content from official Superman DVDs and be free of all copyright restrictions? This is further confused, since a couple unofficial DVDs I've seen at the store claim new copyright on it. I don't know how copyright law works, but if I wanted to copy the cartoons for a friend of mine, I don't want to break the law, but neither am I eager on giving low-quality conversions from archive.org. I am in the United States, btw --71.197.194.170 07:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Other pages in Wikipedia say that just restoring a work doesn't put new copyright, according to court decisions. I've read that Warner Bros.' versions of the cartoons may have the original music of the opening credits changed to the one from the first cartoon, so they may be copyrighted (as a whole, not sure about parts of them). If you read my comment above, you'll see that I still can't figure out if these (and many other) cartoons that are public domain in the USA are so here in Europe (more precisely, in the EU). I think that copyright laws could get complicated, so someone with more expirience should explain how it works in this case (but not me, I'm just a fan). --Mégara (Мегъра) - D. Mavrov 23:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

So if there's nothing stopping the Internet Archive versions from being High Res. DVD rips of the highest quality versions available, then why haven't they been replaced with them yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.114.253 (talk) 00:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

It remains disputable whether removing protection from a DVD containing a public domain film is legal. (User:Megara)--213.91.184.25 (talk) 21:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

BIG problems in this article

There are significant problems with this article. I'll start with the voice work, as a thread already exists here about it, started by an unsigned IP: 198.99.32.5.

I do not know who Steve Younis—credited as "editor in chief" of this so-called "Superman Home Page" that EatMyShortz linked in—is, but in the most literal sense of the phrase, he doesn't know what he's talking about, not about the voice work on these shorts, at least. The vast majority of secondary characters here were clearly voiced by Jack Mercer, best remembered for voicing Popeye. I don't know that Jackson Beck had arrived at this studio before the Superman series was dropped. In the 14th entry, "The Mummy Strikes," the hero is definitely voiced by Bud Collyer, even though it's the first cartoon in a while that he's heard in, except for the tag scene back at the paper as Clark. The IMDb says this is by the same man who voiced the titular hero in the same studio's Gulliver's Travels feature a few years earlier, and it does indeed sound the same when the two are compared. I can't interpret this situation any way but:

This short had been developed up through the point of voice recording when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and instead of sending this to the animators it was decided to put it aside for a while and do some stories in support of the war effort. When they went back to it, for whatever reason, they needed to (re?)record the last scene, but in the interim Collyer had left the series.

This explains why Collyer's voice is present (audibly observable fact), while a handful of immediately preceding entries aren't by him (ditto), and why the tag wasn't done by him, either (ditto). As for Joan Alexander, I never encountered a report crediting her as the voice of Lois here prior to finding it on the IMDb after the turn of the century, which put not only her as Lois but Collyer as Supes on every short. As already stated it is a not only observable but reported fact that he did not do the entire run—I believe Leonard Maltin's late 1970s book Of Mice and Magic said as much, and I read somewhere that the New York-based actor got tired of having to drive well out into New Jersey for the recording sessions—and Lois does not even so much as get mentioned in the last entry. I do believe this is where the claim that Joan did these 'toons (and that Bud did all of them) began, but between Lois' absence from the last and the statements of our anonymous IP above, it has little credibility.

Another problem is the claim that the first nine shorts were produced by Max Fleischer. His name is to be found on-screen only through the eighth (per the highly regarded Bosko videos). Yes, brother Dave gets the directing credit on the ninth, but that is bogus anyway. He is the credited director on everything that came out of the studio, which is logistically IMPOSSIBLE. While other old Hollywood cartoon studios having the same name on every short that they made (at least for an extended, pre-unionization period) has been disputed by film historians, this one doing so hasn't. Don't know why they haven't, but Max's name missing from Terror on the Midway is much more telling than Dave's being present.

• [UPDATE: Famous doesn't appear on the opening title card for ...Midway, either, just, IIRC, "Paramount presents...." --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)]

There is a lot of original research here, and even a little bit of synthesis, but I'm not suggesting this material itself go into the article, just that it be taken into consideration as to what should and should not be in there, however solid a citation can be made.

Well, although there was more that I wanted to go into here, my time on this shared computer is growing short. See you tomorrow. --Ted Watson (talk) 22:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC) I just did some minor, superficial editing here—improved and/or more succint phrasing, adding a few extra and clarifying details, as well as fixing a couple of typos—but realized that there weren't really any additional points I wanted to put out for discussion. However, I am going to add to the intro that these cartoons being "widely known as the 'Fleischer Superman cartoons'" is erroneous (the article essentially concedes this farther down already), and replace the "entire run" bit in the line about Collyer with something more ambiguous, per the above. --Ted Watson (talk) 21:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Nobody, either here or in edit summaries, has challenged my assertion that Max's name is not on Terror on the Midway. Yet there are two sites linked in where you can view it, and those prints have his name on the series title card. I apologize to one and all on that point, as this has refreshed my memory, that I reflected that it was a shame Bongo's VHSs could not have squeezed this onto Volume One and had all Fleisher on one tape and all Famous on the other. Again, my most humble apologies. BTW, I also checked one site's streams of the first installment and The Mechanical Monsters and Lois is definitely not voiced by Joan Alexander in either. --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:04, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I have to partially back down from backing down, as I have confirmed that the Bongo VHS version of Terror... did indeed bear the Famous Studios name rather than Max's. Now what? --Tbrittreid (talk) 20:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Directors?

Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to indicate in the boxed listings who the director of each short was? We'd just need to put a note at the top of the Fleischer Studio box that Dave F. got the credit on all of theirs, of course. --Tbrittreid (talk) 23:39, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

DVD set

I have a DVD set of these cartoons in a case resembling a tin lunchbox. AmericanLeMans (talk) 18:37, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Superman-fleischer.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Alternate/Internarial Superman opening line

For internarial prints of superman cartoons starting with 11th hour the opening line is slightly different New parts are in bold Faster than a flash of lightning! More potent than a beating surf! Vaster than a active hurricane So you know the original slogan on English prints was Faster than a streak of lightning! More powerful than the pounding surf! Mightier than a roaring hurricane — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.84.240 (talk) 17:18, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

PROOF

Is there actual proof (Official document) that these videos are in the public domain, i have uploaded them several times on several websites such as Youtube and dailymotion, and the first two episodes are always being claimed by Ingroves, SACEM, Sony ATV Publishing

the first episode is claimed by SME on behaf of INgrooves & WaterTower Music the second episode is claimed by SACEM on behaf of Sony ATV Publishing

until there is proof, i recomend editing the information on this wikipedia page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.139.54 (talk) 02:26, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

i have looked up the copyright entrie in the catalog of copyright enteries cumulative series motion pictures 1940-1949 from the us copyright office it says on page 415 that the first episode 'SUPERMAN' was copyrighted on 26 september 1941 by paramount pictures with copyrigt registration number lp10736, however i diddend find any new copyrights after that, or any indication of copyright renewals. is there anybode who has an id on how to look this up ?

https://archive.org/stream/Motionpict19401949librrich0010#page/n427/mode/2up/search/superman— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.139.54 (talk) 03:15, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

i have looked up the copyright renewal entrie in the catalog of copyright entries of dramatic compositions en motion pictures including renewals of 1941, it states on page 216 that the title "SUPERMAN" again was copyrighted on 26 sepember 1941 by paramount pictures but this time with copyright registration L 10736 the p has disepeard, dos this mean somthing ??? is it indeed renewed ?

https://archive.org/stream/catalogofcopyrig141libr#page/216/mode/2up/search/superman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.139.54 (talk) 04:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 6 July 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 05:11, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

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Superman (cartoons) → Superman (1940s cartoons) – in May special:diff/779995468 this was moved without seeking consensus, saying there is no need to mention the year. I think there is very much a need. 80s Superman (TV series) and 90s Superman: The Animated Series and several films are also Superman cartoons. The present location should be a disambig for all Superman toons. Another possibility could be Superman in Technicolor based on the text in the image. ScratchMarshall (talk) 03:17, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nomination, with the alternative possibility of Superman (Fleischer cartoons), per the lead sentence of the article: "The Fleischer Superman cartoons are a series of animated short films released in Technicolor by Paramount Pictures and based upon the comic book character Superman, making them his first animated appearance." —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:13, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support restore 1940s. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:13, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support move, but redirect this page to Superman_(disambiguation)#Film,_radio,_and_television. kennethaw88 • talk 07:53, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
• Support move to Superman (1940s cartoons, but also agree that Superman (cartoons) should redirect to Superman_(disambiguation)#Film,_radio,_and_television 208.83.126.115 (talk) 18:44, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 24 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 22:47, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

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Superman (1940s cartoons) → Superman (1940s animated film series) – The article is about a series of theatrical animated films released in the 1940s. "cartoons" is a term both WP:NCFILM and WP:NCTV don't use (and as the article itself says, can mean even non-animated cartoons). Instead, when needed, animated film / TV series is used. Per WP:NCFILM#Film series, this is a film series. This can't use Superman (film series) as that already leads to Superman in film, and it can't use Superman (1940s film series) as that can mean also Superman (serial), which leaves the title as the optimal one. Gonnym (talk) 22:31, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support – the proposed disambiguation scheme is more WP:CONSISTENT with other articles like this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:26, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nomination, IJBall and per main title header of Category:Animated film series. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:35, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support move. Seems obvious, though I don't believe the possibility of Superman (animated film series) has been addressed yet? O.N.R. ^(talk) 07:12, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support the move, undecided on the "no redirect" issue. — Ched (talk) 18:39, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support This is a film series. Dimadick (talk) 10:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Superman Fleischer films on streaming service

Just as an update, this morning, early in the morning of Dec 10, 2022, I am able to watch all 17 of the original episodes on the Classic SciFi Movie Channel, which I receive here on Comcast/Xfinity in Lafayette, IN. However, I do not know just how much longer they will be available, because I found them under the "Last Chance to Watch" tab of the streaming service. I hope I have enough time to view them all before they disappear from the service; and I hope this might assist someone else who has been seeking a way to view them as they originally appeared. 2601:249:4281:2430:0:0:0:4B13 (talk) 06:33, 10 December 2022 (UTC)