Talk:St. Augustine Light

Reversion of edits on August 27, 2006

Rather than trying to fix the errors introduced in this article today, I have reverted those edits. In particular, the St. Augustine Light was not the first lighthouse in the United States, and Florida was not admitted to the Union until 1845. -- Donald Albury 22:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Donald. Intersting!!! Today, I have added details from the extensive archives of the St. Augustine Lighthouse and Museum, Inc. These files are accessible to researchers by appointment. I would like to be able to add exact references here and will continue to do so. I am not sure exactly how to place items in the reference section. Can you help me? While you are correct that Florida did not become a state until later, Florida was an American territory in 1823, and its lighthouses were governed by Congress, just as today lighthouses in Puerto Rico are managed, even have ownership changes managed by United States agencies like USCG or GSA. Several lighthouses were established in 1824 in Florida by Congress. St. Augustine was lit on Monday, April 5, 1824.

It is probably normal ethnocentrism that causes us to want to believe that the Americans were the first to have lighthouses. What we know as "America" is a maritime nation created and built on our waterways. Aids-to-navigation were certainly needed from the very beginning and were used by many cultures. While this 1824 Florida lighthouse was not as early an "American" light as those in Boston for example, it MAY well have predated those same lights in New England under Spanish and even British rule. St. Augustine was founded in 1565, well before Jamestown. I know of no other Spanish lighthouses or even permanent aides to navigation in what we call America...does anyone else? I think there must have been others. The addition of Dr. Sam Turner who specializes in reading 16th century Spanish documents to our staff team may help us document early use one way or the other some day. As we are always finding out new things, I certainly welcome new changes and information based on good data. I realize that this is an open forum my data is subject to discussion and removal. That's part of the fun. - Kathy Fleming, St. Augustine Lighthouse, Executive Director, November 2006

First of all I have to inform you that material from an archive does not qualify as a usable source. The first clause of the verifiability policy says, Articles should contain only material that has been published by reliable sources. A proposal was made a few months ago to explicitly allow use of material from a school's archive, but that was rejected by the community. I'm afraid you are going to have to cite published sources for the material you want to add, or remove it. The point of this restriction is that all material used in Wikipedia needs to be verifiable by readers. Source material that can be accessed at only one location falls far short of that requirement. As you are affiliated with the museum, it would be nice if you could post the material on the Web, thus making it available to Wikipedia editors and readers and meeting the 'published' requirement.

Since Wikipedia aims to present a balanced account of all subjects, we often have to acknowledge differing accounts and/or interpretations of subjects. This is especially true in historical articles, and the primary sources are often fragmentary and even contradictory, and secondary sources can often give accounts that differ widely depending on what the author chooses to include and emphasize. We try to avoid primary sources unless they have been published with critical commentary and annotations.

As for Spanish lighthouses, I seem to remember that St. Augustine was re-supplied only once or twice a year, and I think it unlikely that they would maintain a light house just for that. If the old Spanish records indicate otherwise, I will be surprised. They did maintain sentinel houses along the coast to warn of invaders (Jonathan Dickinson mentions three south of St. Augustine in 1696/1697).

Oh, you should sign you posts on talk pages by adding four tildes (~~~~) at the end. -- Donald Albury 14:27, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Donald,

Thank you for the information above. Please clarify what you mean by "reputible published sources." I have always been trained to believe that primary source materials such as those in reputable museum archives and university library's being more reliable than secondary sources. Either way, I do recognize a need to document further from specific materials inside the archives and in other locations. I'll try to carve out the time to do that. I mention the archives because at the time of my edit, I was pressed for time. I'll correct that and concur. It would help me to understand how you mean by "published."

I am confused by the paragraph starting ":As for Spanish lighthouses..." It is not uncommon for the US Government to send annual supplies to it's lighthouses as late at the 19th Century. Howerver it is a leap to assume this was the only vessel around. Of course other supplies came from nearby. Protecting the coastal trade route was a primary reason for the city in the first place. Vessels would have been coming and going between British, Spanish and French colonoies. This trade may even have been illegal, but it occured. Local, venacular fishing vessels would have wanted to use the channel as well because the people would have depended on the sea for survival. The ocean is a passage way, not a barrier. I don't understand "just for that." Does the discussion of the trade network help you? Why do you think the Castillio De San Marcos was completed?

The watchtower/ or lighthouse when it became one (and this is uncertain) would have been maintained not only for supplies and trade but to watch for pirates, enemy's and privateers who also came by sea. Lighthouses have always held a dual role as coastal defense towers. Aids to navigation, lights, buoy's, channel markers were very important. Fires were often kept in the top fo these towers, the earliest in Ancient Egypt. Coiled rope n a braiser basket was burned. Lighthouses were vital to growing nation and it's economy. This is true up until the advent and completion of a the railroad which began in NY in the middle of the 19th century and did not reach Florida until the end of that century. St. Augustine is three centuries older than that and relied on sea going trade that entire time.

I want also to say thank you. I recognize a need to add source material. I concur with you completely on this point.

Kathy Fleming

private-aid

In the lead, what does " private-aid" mean? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:12, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

I fixed it per source, which says, "Station established 1823. Active (privately maintained)". Thanks for pointing this out. Carlstak (talk) 04:37, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't know what that phrase meant. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:06, 24 July 2022 (UTC)